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Author Topic: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?  (Read 1259 times)

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Offline Lazarus

Re: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?
« Reply #65 on: Today at 05:11:33 PM »
Quote from: hgodwinson on Today at 05:01:49 PM
Dude, I hold the sedevacantist position.
Very well, then, do tell me, outside of Thuc's line who exactly has a valid line of ordination? If I recall correctly, the CMRI's line of bishops comes from Thuc's. By denying him, you are denying that the CMRI has valid priests.

Who does, then?

From what I recall, there is no one with a more credible line of succession than Thuc's. Considering how flimsy the arguments used against Thuc's are, if we use the same "rigorous" standards you use, there is no valid line at all.

According to your arguments, if any bishop in the history of the Church ordained someone who later fell into heresy, all of his previous ordinations are dubious. So, during the arianist heresy, most of the bishops had "dubious" ordinations. 
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Offline hgodwinson

Re: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?
« Reply #66 on: Today at 05:48:26 PM »
Quote from: Lazarus on Today at 05:11:33 PM
Very well, then, do tell me, outside of Thuc's line who exactly has a valid line of ordination?
Valid priests who still hold the Catholic faith can be found in the lines of Lefebvre and Mendez.

After Vatican ii, apparently there were minor changes to the rites of many, if not all eastern Churches. I have not researched this issue enough to draw any conclusions as to wether or not these changes would produce a doubt, but I suspect they still have a valid Priesthood. The problem with the eastern clergy is that the vast majority would be suspect of heresy.

When we still had a sovereign Catholic pontiff, the Eastern Orthodox still had a valid priesthood. However, they were almost all under control of communists for decades after Vatican ii. Were there cases where a communist appointed prelate deliberately sullied a consecration or ordination? Quite possibly. For this reason, I think it would be best to treat the sacraments of the orthodox as dubious until a real Catholic hierarchy can make a declaration on their validity or lack thereof post Vatican ii.
I hold the same approach for the rites Montini and the Thuc consecrations. Wait until a sovereign pontiff has removed all doubt.
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Offline Lazarus

Re: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?
« Reply #67 on: Today at 06:04:15 PM »
Quote from: hgodwinson on Today at 05:48:26 PM
Valid priests who still hold the Catholic faith can be found in the lines of Lefebvre and Mendez.

After Vatican ii, apparently there were minor changes to the rites of many, if not all eastern Churches. I have not researched this issue enough to draw any conclusions as to wether or not these changes would produce a doubt, but I suspect they still have a valid Priesthood. The problem with the eastern clergy is that the vast majority would be suspect of heresy.

When we still had a sovereign Catholic pontiff, the Eastern Orthodox still had a valid priesthood. However, they were almost all under control of communists for decades after Vatican ii. Were there cases where a communist appointed prelate deliberately sullied a consecration or ordination? Quite possibly. For this reason, I think it would be best to treat the sacraments of the orthodox as dubious until a real Catholic hierarchy can make a declaration on their validity or lack thereof post Vatican ii.
I hold the same approach for the rites Montini and the Thuc consecrations. Wait until a sovereign pontiff has removed all doubt.
Since what happened during the Covid, the SSPX can no longer be trusted to have valid sacraments. If you did not follow what happened back then, basically they sabotaged the ceremony to ensure the next lines of priests would be invalid.

For older priests their sacraments should be valid. For the new ones, it is doubtful. 
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Offline hgodwinson

Re: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?
« Reply #68 on: Today at 06:07:13 PM »
Quote from: Lazarus on Today at 06:04:15 PM
Siince the Covid, the SSPX can no longer be trusted to have valid sacraments. If you did not follow what happened back then, basically they sabotaged the ceremony to ensure the next lines of priests would be invalid.

 
I’m not sure what you are talking about. Sabotaged the ceremony how? 
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Offline Lazarus

Re: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?
« Reply #69 on: Today at 06:12:46 PM »
Quote from: hgodwinson on Today at 06:07:13 PM
I’m not sure what you are talking about. Sabotaged the ceremony how?
From what I recall, the holy chrism that is necessary to ordain priests was blessed by a false Vatican II bishop and used to ordain SSPX priests.

Because a Vatican II priest has invalid rites, their blessings are worthless, making the matter used for the sacrament of ordainment invalid.

Edit : I have to be honest so I tell you, I am not entirely sure of what I am saying. It caused enough doubts for me to stop going to SSPX masses. 
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