Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?  (Read 1485 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?
« Reply #50 on: Yesterday at 03:30:43 PM »
While people may argue about evidence, doubt, etc., I am here quoting from authoritative Catholic sources which outline the role of suspicion, doubt, probability and all of those principles in moral theology, along with how it relates to the sacraments, so we are on the same page. I do not intend to argue or debate, I am simply presenting information. For those who wish to reply, please read through carefully before doing so. The quotes are not difficult to understand.

“Practical doubt, or doubt as to the lawfulness of an action is, according to the teaching of moral theology, incompatible with right action; since to act with a doubtful conscience is obviously to act in disregard of the moral law. To act with a doubtful conscience is therefore, sinful; and the doubt must be removed before any action can be justified. It frequently happens, however, that the solution of a practical doubt is not attainable, while some decision is necessary. In such cases the conscience may obtain a "reflexive" certainty by adopting an approved opinion as to the lawfulness of the action contemplated, apart from the intrinsic merits of the question. The question has been much discussed among different schools of theologians whether the opinion so followed must be of greatly preponderating authority in favour of liberty in order to justify an action the lawfulness of which appears intrinsically doubtful, whether it must be merely more probable than the contrary one, or equally probable, or merely probable in itself, even though less so than its contrary. (See Moral Theology; Probabilism.) The last, however, is the theory now generally accepted for all practical purposes; and the principle that lex dubia non obligat--i.e. that a law which is doubtful in its application to the case in hand does not bind--is universally admitted. It must be observed, however, that where the question is one not merely of positive law but of securing a certain practical result, only the "safer" course may be followed. No opinion however probable, is allowed to take precedence of the most certain means of securing such ends; e.g. in providing for the validity of the sacraments, in discharging obligations of justice, or in avoiding injury to others. Thus doubtful baptisms and ordinations must be repeated conditionally.”  — The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume 5, 1909

“If the uncertainty concerns the validity of an action which must certainly be valid, it is not lawful to act on mere probability unless, indeed, this is of such a nature as to make the Church certainly supply what is needed for the validity of the act. Thus, apart from necessity, it is not lawful to act on mere probability when the validity of the sacraments is in question. Again, it is not lawful to act on mere probability when there is question of gaining an end which is obligatory, since certain means must be employed to gain a certainly required end. Hence, when eternal salvation is at stake, it is not lawful to be content with uncertain means. Moreover, the virtue of justice demands equality, and as such excludes the use of probability when the established rights of another are concerned.” — Probabilism, The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume 12

"The common doctrine now is that a real internal intention to act as a minister of Christ, or to do what Christ instituted the sacraments to effect, in other words, to truly baptize, absolve, etc., is required. This intention need not necessarily be of the sort called actual. That would often be practically impossible. It is enough that it be virtual. Neither habitual nor interpretative intention in the minister will suffice for the validity of the sacrament. The truth is that here and now, when the sacrament is being conferred, neither of these intentions exists, and they can therefore exercise no determining influence upon what is done. To administer the sacraments with a conditional intention, which makes their effect contingent upon a future event, is to confer them invalidly. This holds good for all the sacraments except matrimony, which, being a contract, is susceptible of such a limitation." — Intention, The Catholic Encyclopedia


Thank for you this. It shows the MIND OF THE CHURCH.


Which is most certainly NOT the mind of the Thucists.

Re: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?
« Reply #51 on: Yesterday at 03:35:32 PM »
Yes and no one doubts that the external ceremony took place.

But that's not what this whole issue is about.
I said this, because Pax Vobis didn't seem to be aware that Dr. Hiller and Dr. Heller, witnesses to the consecrations of +Thuc, were the ones interviewed by Frs. Jenkins, Kelly, and Sanborn.


Re: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?
« Reply #52 on: Yesterday at 03:36:31 PM »

Thank for you this. It shows the MIND OF THE CHURCH.


Which is most certainly NOT the mind of the Thucists.
You're welcome.

Re: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?
« Reply #53 on: Yesterday at 03:46:48 PM »
The really hilarious thing about anti-Thucists is that they have double-standards that they do not apply to their own people.

If it's about doubting the moral character of someone, I would worry far more about this :



I do not see the larpers pretending to be Catholic doubting all the ordinations done by John Paul II. Their double-standards show that they are nothing like God, they are simply a bunch of hypocrites who are envious of traditional christians.

If some of the larpers were willing to use logic, and to apply the consequences of their reasoning to other matters, perhaps I could take them seriously. But they do not, proving they are but Pharisees larping as Christians.

If Thuc's ordinations are invalid, not a single ordination in the Vatican II polytheist sect can be considered valid, according to the same criteria. In that case, it simply means Catholicism is a false religion.

Not only they are in communion with polytheists, but they are in fact apostates.



Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?
« Reply #54 on: Yesterday at 04:13:32 PM »
Dr. Hiller and Dr. Heller were witnesses to the +Thuc consecrations.
Every single one of them?  Or specific ones?