Author Topic: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid? (Read 4484 times)

hgodwinson · « **Reply #75 on:** March 11, 2026, 09:19:52 PM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on March 11, 2026, 07:50:56 PM

Not so fast. If you're going to hold this uncatholic, rigorist position for +Thuc, then you'd also have to hold it for +ABL, who would be doubtful because Liénart who consecrated him was a freemason heretic.

If you hold that +Thuc, who was Traditional, had a mental lapse and his intention was invalid, then...
you have to hold that Liénart, who was a heretic mason, had an anti-catholic intention which was surely invalid.

You have to be consistent.

Intention is presumed if matter and firm are present. Lefebvre was also consecrated when we had a Catholic pontiff who could rule on matters like these and there never was any order from Rome for Lefebvre to undergo any conditional re consecration to my knowledge.

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #76 on:** March 11, 2026, 09:27:26 PM »

Quote from: hgodwinson on March 11, 2026, 09:19:52 PM

Intention is presumed if matter and firm are present. Lefebvre was also consecrated when we had a Catholic pontiff who could rule on matters like these and there never was any order from Rome for Lefebvre to undergo any conditional re consecration to my knowledge.

Ok, then why isn’t the intention presumed when NO ONE QUESTIONS the matter/form for +Thuc?

IndultCat · « **Reply #77 on:** March 12, 2026, 02:41:05 AM »

Quote from: Maria Dolorosa on March 11, 2026, 01:37:43 PM

How do you know that is the letter the Angelus was referring to? If you are referring to Fr. Jenkins' claim about having interviewed Dr. Hiller and Dr. Heller and recording it on tape, it is referenced and transcribed in "The Sacred and the Profane" by Bishop Kelly. His book is available online. https://congregationofstpiusv.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/SacredandProfane.pdf

I will email Fr. Jenkins myself and ask if he has produced these recordings and if not, to please do so. I will get back to everyone here about that.

Forget those recordings and ask Fr. Jenkins to get the recording of when he and Bishop Kelly were on the Phil Donahue show in 1988 after the Mary Sue Greve fiasco. Now THAT I would pay $1000 to see!

TomGubbinsKimmage · « **Reply #78 on:** March 12, 2026, 03:13:22 AM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on March 11, 2026, 04:53:43 PM

Being "worn out" does not make one insane.
There is no evidence that the sacraments were invalidly performed.
There is no evidence that the rite was incorrectly said.
There is no evidence that anything was wrong.
There is nothing to support a sacramental defect.

In the above, the only critique of +Thuc comes from clerics who "can't understand" why he ordained certain people (mostly related to the Palmaranians). But this isn't evidence. Who can know why any person does certain things? YOU CAN'T JUDGE SACRAMENTS BY THE INTERNAL FORUM. YOU CAN'T JUDGE SACRAMENTS BY READING HEARTS.

I'm growing more convinced that you are actually some form of retard.

Because i explained that where the minister has explicitly denied going against the intention of the Sacrament, then it must be invalid.

Otherwise, please explain how we know if someone has simulated a Sacrament.

ANSWER THAT!

TomGubbinsKimmage · « **Reply #79 on:** March 12, 2026, 03:15:49 AM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on March 11, 2026, 09:27:26 PM

Ok, then why isn’t the intention presumed when NO ONE QUESTIONS the matter/form for +Thuc?

Because of the doubt arising from the suspicion he may have withheld intention.
The one time where a Sacrament is definitely invalid.
The Church has pronounced on this.

If you want to be protestant, at least be honest about it.

CathInfo.com

Author Topic: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid? (Read 4484 times)

hgodwinson

Re: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?

Pax Vobis

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IndultCat

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TomGubbinsKimmage

Re: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?

TomGubbinsKimmage

Re: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?