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No, I am talking about the pioneering trads who knew their faith and through all the chaos and confusion kept the faith while their Church and all that was holy was taken over by her enemies and totally defiled.

You are one who is talking like you are very weak in the faith and do not understand Church history because unless there is obvious, credible evidence to the contrary, the Church always presumes validity of her sacraments - that is how she has defended and preserved her sacraments for 2000 years.

 What you are doing is presuming invalidity based on (ridiculous) hearsay - if the Church did that, she would have defended and preserved what in fact amounts to defending and preserving nothing at all - which is exactly what you are doing - which is in fact, ridiculous.
 

For those who have not already, please read through my long post, I am simply quoting from other people, because it is important we are informed on the same things. There is no hurry, please take your time.

I will relate again an important fact, which is sourced in my long post.

Dr. Hiller, witness to the +Thuc consecrations, said that he was told by +Thuc himself, that +Thuc simulated a sacrament in the New Mass, so The Angelus' claim of him simulating the sacrament with the Palmer Bishop, is consistent with his behaviour. The reason Dr. Hiller even knew this, is because Drs. Hiller and Heller were shocked at +Thuc's decision to assist at the New Mass, in light of his recent conversion, if you will, to Tradition, and demanded an explanation from +Thuc.

What happened was +Thuc was given a small place to hear confessions in the Novus Ordo cathedral, and thought it would be ingratitude not to celebrate the New Mass there when asked to, but felt he was at the same time obliged to be faithful to Tradition, by withholding consent during the consecration.


This is not hearsay, and was related by Fr. Noel Barbara, a French priest who interviewed +Thuc in March of 1981, and January of 1982. This event is even conceded by Fr. Cekada, who was pro-+Thuc for a good portion of his time as a priest. In fact, he was one of the first ones to write an extensive article, relating these occurences, and analyzing the +Thuc consecrations, entitled "Two Bishops in Every Garage", when he was anti-+Thuc. This article may be read from p. 287, and contains many citations: https://congregationofstpiusv.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/SacredandProfane.pdf

There are many other occurrences recorded in Fr. Cekada's article, which bring a lot of doubt to one's mind about the functioning of +Thuc's mental faculties.

Anyone who has had interactions with the elderly who have dementia, understand that such a person can be lucid, and appear normal in some ways, while in other ways can be unpredictable, irrational, and rash in decision-making. And so, it is not unimaginable that a similar degeneration of the brain was probably happening with Archbishop Thuc, perhaps brought on earlier from the immense shock of his brothers being killed in Vietnam, and being exiled in Rome by Paul VI. Stress affects one's health greatly, it is even said of Pope St. Pius X that his heart literally broke soon after WWI began, and he died of a heart attack. From my view, in light of this information, that is the most charitable way to view +Thuc's behaviour.


When we look at the entire issue where The Angelus article appears, we can see the context for the statement regarding the Palmer situation. Archbishop Lefebvre was visiting America, and was interviewed with many questions, including being asked about +Thuc. I will repost it again here.

+Lefebvre claimed that +Thuc appeared to have lost all reason.

Was not the Archbishop aware of what was being said of him in this magazine? I am not asking rhetorical questions. I have not seen evidence that he wished the magazine to retract "false statements".

Fr. Cekada wrote an article on the validity of ordinations and consecrations done by Freemasons, that may be worth reading. This is not to praise of everything he did as a person, I am simply sharing to ensure everyone is as well-informed as possible, because Father was known to have well-sourced articles. https://www.traditionalmass.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/MasonicBishops.pdf

When it comes to the Thuc detractors I'm reminded of the Stalin quote, "show me the man and I'll show you the crime."
No other bishop in the history of the Church has been subjected to the same degree of scrutiny. If every bishop had then most
would probably suffer under the same specter of doubt.
I can't help but think this controversy comes down to politics more than canon law. There are those who feel threatened by
the theological positions of some Catholic sects and want to cast doubt, with a vengeance, on the validity of their leaders.
These are essentially indirect ad hominem attacks. By destroying Thuc, they destroy Sanborn, Pfiefer, Mckenna, Roy, etc.
It disgusts me