Unless I am mistaken, I believe that there was always a real Pope existing somewhere even when there was an anti-Pope who was followed by some or most.  I don't know of any other time when there was actually NO Pope, except in-between elections -- and that is when the term "sede vacante" was used.

Unless I am mistaken, I believe that there was always a real Pope existing somewhere even when there was an anti-Pope who was followed by some or most.  I don't know of any other time when there was actually NO Pope, except in-between elections -- and that is when the term "sede vacante" was used.

You may be right about that, but then we have never been in the Great Apostasy before either.

"II Thessalonians chapeter 2 "Let no one deceive you in any way, for the day of the Lord will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and is exalted above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sits in the temple of God and gives himself out as if he were God. (Vicar of Christ?!?!)

"II Thessalonians chapeter 2 "Let no one deceive you in any way, for the day of the Lord will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and is exalted above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sits in the temple of God and gives himself out as if he were God. (Vicar of Christ?!?!)

for the umpteenth time folks, the beast is NOT THE POPE...this was a Protestant idea to scare people into the Prot revolt and keep them there....
the saints-yes, pre-V2, were clear that Man of Sin (aka ANtichrist) would be a Jew leader toward the end of the world, the false prophet the leader of the one world religion.....

No offense meant Myrna, but why do Sedes-some of them-feel the need to inject this type of thinking, pandering to Prot fantasies, to somehow supprot their SV beliefs???

one more time:
Man of Sin=Jew leader end of the world
False Prophet=One world relgious leader (P10 warned us about that emergin movement).

Lets stick to what Catholics have said in times past, not try to see everything through distorted lenses and then try to make people and things fit that, whether they do or not....

whether B16 is the Pope or not, holy or evil, good or bad, he CANNOT BE THE ANTICHRIST...does not fit the bill of a Jew born in Middle East that will arise to lead national Israel on a conqureing mission and subversion of the west.......

if you beleive that the Vicar of CHrist-a real one or a purpoted one-will be the antichrist, then you are no better than a Protestant, might as well hook up with La Haye.....

this goes for SV's and non-SV's alike....


I am more and more supporting the idea of laity not allowed to read, own or quote from the Bible,written for reading and dissemination by the religious leaders of Christ's Church to the people.....

Roscoe,
The title of your post is interesting...evidence of sede v, with a question mark.
My first question when I was researching the heck out of this was...

Is there anywhere in Church history (encyclicals, etc) that says the seat being vacant past x amount of time will never happen? From everything I have read, the longest  time(aside from this possible time in history) the seat was vacant was 4 years.
I guess it begs the question- if the seat can be vacant for 4 years, why not 40? Or longer?

At the very least, it says that the sede concept is in the realm of possability. No?



 

If anything, Church history is full of evidence that God is in control, and that the Church survives because God wants it to -- no other reason.

History has shown again and again how frail the human elements of the Church are. God wants it this way, so we know Who is keeping the Church around for 2,000 years.

All the bad popes throughout Church history -- and yet the Church and the Faith survived. That isn't the work of man -- that is the work of God.

Matthew

Firstly that verse doesn't say anything about Anti-christ, it says man of sin, and if an imposter is sitting in the Chair of Peter watering down the faith, pretending to be a vicar of christ he certainly is setting the stage for Anti-christ, and he would be a man of sin too.  

My point of quoting the quote was about the apostasy, that we are in for the first time, by that I mean GREAT apostasy, or in capital letters THE Apostasy.  

We were speaking about SV and why in history never before , etc, etc......not Anti-Christ

you implied that the "false pop" was THE anitchrist.....when in fact, the term antichrist refers to those that deny Christ is Lor,d as we see in Paul's letters, but most clearly too in 1John...

The Man of Sin, morphed now in common use as THE antichrist will be that individual, backed up by a world system and emergine One World Religion taht will be a Jew and lead men into battle, seduce women (and some say, men) and become the One World Ruler....

so, if you are saying the Pope-or claimantto the Throne-is an antichrist, then fine, but again, the common use now indicates that when one says "the Pope is the antichrist" it refers to a single individual in history.....and that is common in "reformation" circles, we that claim the name Catholic should not stopp to their level, nor give them comfort and aid..

There will be only one Man of Sin.......but many antichrists..only one False Prophet too...look up an ANglican by the name of Sprong, he is calling for a one world religion right now, he is a useful idiot and some like him-maybe him-will likely fit the False Prophet bill....

on a personal note-hope you had a great and restful birthday and again, God grant you man years, many happy years!! In health and happiness.... (I used to attend a Byzantine Rite church)

Your argument doesn't exactly work --

Let me apply it to something else:

Certain men (divers, etc.) can hold their breath for 10 minutes at a time. So why not 100 minutes? Why not 1000?

We've established that man doesn't need to constantly be breathing, so this seems to give credence to the theory that man can go without breathing for days.

I don't think this analogy is apropos to the papacy.

When one holds his breath, he, oyster divers for example, can work very hard and do all those things which he ought and must do.  Additionally, this only applies, as you point out, to "certain men"; it is not universal.

When the pope dies, i.e., sede vacante, the Church is not "holding" her breath as there are things which the Church cannot do:  She cannot confirm a General Council; She cannot make new laws; She cannot make changes which She may and ought to make.  There is no head which can do these and other things a living, breathing Church can and ought to do.  Furthermore, holding one's breath must be a conscious decision.  I doubt that many people who think the See of Peter to be currently vacant think that Benedict XVI believes himself to be a usurper.  Indeed, I doubt that any anti-pope thought of himself as an anti-pope.

A better analogy might be that when the pope dies, the Church sleeps.  She is still completely alive, doing all those things which sustain life.  She is running, if you will, on autopilot.  Though She cannot do those things which takes a conscious head to do, she can indeed continue as long as God sustains her.  The essential life remains, i.e., through the Sacraments, but that life remains as it was when it fell asleep though the longer it sleeps it becomes leaner, weaker, less able to defend itself.  

This, I think, would be more in line with how those who believe the See of Peter to be vacant would describe the current situation.  The Church is suffering from a sleeping sickness or coma.  She is sustained by the "feeding tube" of Grace; but she cannot consciously do those things which She can and ought to do other than the most very basic of life sustaining activities.  Further, I am sure that those who, themselves, view Benedict XVI as a usurper would agree that Benedict himself does not share that view.  The New Church which he heads is consciously doing all those things it desires to do while the Catholic Church unconsciously continues doing those things essential for salvation:  Teaching the Faith and providing the Sacraments.

Obviously, this is not a perfect analogy, but it better describes, I think, the universal aspect of the current situation according to the sede vacante theory.