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Author Topic: Evidence of 'Sede Vacantism'  (Read 7027 times)

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Offline roscoe

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Evidence of 'Sede Vacantism'
« on: May 17, 2010, 07:06:51 PM »
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  • Could some one please show evidence from a Church Father, Saint, Pope, Council, Bishop etc in the last 2000 yrs( prior to 1958) where the term 'sede vacantist' or 'sede vacantism' is referred to? I am not talking about the period between the election of Popes when the chair of Peter is vacant-- sede vacante.

    Despite the fact that there has been over 40 anti-popes in Church History, I have never heard of this and no one has ever produced any evidence that such a state of affairs exists.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline TKGS

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    Evidence of 'Sede Vacantism'
    « Reply #1 on: May 18, 2010, 07:25:08 AM »
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  • This really isn't a very intelligent question.  The term "sedevacantism" is of relatively recent origin.  I've read various claims that the term was coined as recently as the early 1970s.  But claiming that because the term didn't exist in the past the very concept is therefore impossible is using the same logic that many Protestants and Modernists use to claim that Matrimony wasn't really a sacrament in the early Church because the word "sacrament" wasn't applied to Matrimony by the Church Fathers for several generations.

    While I don't have the specific reference available (perhaps a more learned member can provide it) theologians have generally held that, while during the Great Western Schism there was indeed a true pope, it would not have been impossible for the interregnum to have lasted for the entire period of the Schism.  Thus, while the specific term "sedevacantism" was not used, as it had not yet been coined, the concept of a long interregnum, had already been discussed and deemed a theological possibility.

    Personally, I do not like the term "sedevacantist".  Clearly, if there are "sedevacantists" there must be "sedeplenists" (i.e., the seat is full).  Instead, we should use the word "Catholic".  If one holds all the Truths of the Catholic Faith, he should be considered a Catholic whether or not he knows who the current pope is.  If one does not hold all the Truths of the Catholic Faith, he should be considered a heretic, apostate, or pagan (as appropriate) even if he is convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt who the current pope is.

    Before the instant transmission of news became available during the last couple of hundred years, does anyone think people went to hell because they didn't know who was pope at any given moment?  


    Offline Belloc

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    Evidence of 'Sede Vacantism'
    « Reply #2 on: May 18, 2010, 07:31:13 AM »
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  • There have been anti-popes in the past and a seat was vacant as a result.Some say that Alexander the VI was an anti-pope, as there was some evidence he bought the election, hence invalidating the election......

    so, the theory that the seat can be vacant is not new nor is it implausible, but the questions are this-is the seat vacant now? if so, when was it vacated? who was last Pope legit? and what do we do now?

    that said, never heard anyone use the term in the past as it is now used....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline TKGS

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    Evidence of 'Sede Vacantism'
    « Reply #3 on: May 18, 2010, 07:40:04 AM »
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  • Quote
    Clearly, if there are "sedevacantists" there must be "####s" (i.e., the seat is full).


    That second term is supposed to be "sede-plenists".  I'm not sure what happened.

    Offline Elizabeth

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    Evidence of 'Sede Vacantism'
    « Reply #4 on: May 18, 2010, 08:26:14 AM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS


    Before the instant transmission of news became available during the last couple of hundred years, does anyone think people went to hell because they didn't know who was pope at any given moment?  


    A very wise question, TKGS.  And then the question of literacy among the masses of souls, or access to religious books, photography, transportation.  How many even knew what the Pope looked like?

    The Faith has to be simple enough for even a child to practice.


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Evidence of 'Sede Vacantism'
    « Reply #5 on: May 18, 2010, 09:29:03 AM »
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  • This site is all about it:

    http://sedevacantist.net/

    Happy hunting, roscoe!
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Evidence of 'Sede Vacantism'
    « Reply #6 on: May 18, 2010, 09:30:56 AM »
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  • Quote from: Belloc
    that said, never heard anyone use the term in the past as it is now used....


    The non-use, if you will, makes perfect sense...as there has never been a situation like this one, even if one disagrees with the conclusions of the sedevacantists, sedeprivationists, etc.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Evidence of 'Sede Vacantism'
    « Reply #7 on: May 18, 2010, 10:45:58 AM »
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  • It's really simple; sedevacantist are Roman Catholics who believe the pope must be Catholic.  Thats it!

    Even the anti-popes were Catholic!  

    But today, not sure where the Catholic pope is, does anyone here have a clue where he might be?    :argue:
    Please pray for my soul.
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    Offline Belloc

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    Evidence of 'Sede Vacantism'
    « Reply #8 on: May 18, 2010, 10:59:03 AM »
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  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    Quote from: Belloc
    that said, never heard anyone use the term in the past as it is now used....


    The non-use, if you will, makes perfect sense...as there has never been a situation like this one, even if one disagrees with the conclusions of the sedevacantists, sedeprivationists, etc.


    true, but then again, the Western Schism (was that the term?)was fairly close comparison, though maybe too with differences.....no one really knew which Pope as right and we had several claimants, though none to my knowledge elected by phone and residing in a cabin in the woods...
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Belloc

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    Evidence of 'Sede Vacantism'
    « Reply #9 on: May 18, 2010, 10:59:42 AM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    But today, not sure where the Catholic pope is, does anyone here have a clue where he might be?    :argue:


    subjectively or objectively?
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Evidence of 'Sede Vacantism'
    « Reply #10 on: May 18, 2010, 11:26:04 AM »
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  • Subjectively as in what the Protestants embrace?  influenced by one's personal interests; not interested!

    I prefer reality!
    Please pray for my soul.
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    Offline Belloc

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    Evidence of 'Sede Vacantism'
    « Reply #11 on: May 18, 2010, 11:35:22 AM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    Subjectively as in what the Protestants embrace?  influenced by one's personal interests; not interested!

    I prefer reality!


    me too, though I meant something a bit different....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Evidence of 'Sede Vacantism'
    « Reply #12 on: May 18, 2010, 11:51:53 AM »
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  • Does anyone know where this quote originated from:

    "A doubtful pope is no pope"

    Just curious!
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

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    Offline Alexandria

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    Evidence of 'Sede Vacantism'
    « Reply #13 on: May 18, 2010, 12:09:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    Does anyone know where this quote originated from:

    "A doubtful pope is no pope"

    Just curious!


    I don't know.  It might be a spin off of "a doubtful sacrament is no sacrament."  In any event, I am in doubt as to whether he is or isn't the pope.  

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Evidence of 'Sede Vacantism'
    « Reply #14 on: May 18, 2010, 12:16:36 PM »
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  • The strangest happening, I googled that term, and someone posted this, just today.

    http://tinyurl.com/346bmfb
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/