Author Topic: Eucharistic Miracle in Poland (Read 9159 times)

Augstine Baker · « **Reply #15 on:** October 05, 2011, 10:48:25 AM »

Quote from: Stephen Francis

Quote from: Augustine Baker
You read some books and decided you knew best and most about all things.

Would you please tell me how ANYTHING I have posted since beginning here would lead you to believe that I claim to know 'best' OR 'most' about ANYTHING, let alone ALL things?

So far, you haven't offered a single shred of evidence for the validity of your Novus 'service', let alone for the validity of this so-called 'miracle'.

Would you please explain, using actual, verifiable proofs, how you can equate the Novus Ordo 'memorial meal' with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, which is a PROPITIATORY SACRIFICE?

Here's a hint: you can't, because the FORM has been declared UNALTERABLE by Holy Church, and yet, Bugnini and his Protestant henchmen went and attempted to CHANGE the words of the Canon and the Consecration to something that DOES NOT EVEN IMPLY, LET ALONE ACTUALLY DECLARE, that there is a SACRIFICE, and that what is happening IS THE MISTERIUM FIDEI, not the little 'sing-along' bit about Christ dying, rising and returning.

Read some books? Friend, I was RAISED Protestant. I have more knowledge of how totally un-Catholic your Novus services are than you can possibly imagine. Unlike you, who sat around waiting to be told what to believe by whoever just happened to be behind that picnic table, I watched not a 'collapse' of anything, but a gradual, intentional and mutinous usurpation of the authority of the Church by men who meant to destroy Her... I KNOW this to be true, because they are echoing the WORDS, the ACTIONS, the THEOLOGIES and the RUBRICS of Protestant/Masonic heretics who have PUBLICLY insisted that the Catholic Church MUST be destroyed.

Bugnini, Ratzinger and the rest have all just been singing a song I was raised to sing all my life.

Now, what is it that's going to prove otherwise? Nothing. Only a return to Tradition and the eradication of the heretical New Order will bring about the 'miracles' you are so desperate to believe in.

Why don't you try humbling yourself before what's been DEFINED and promulgated as DE FIDE before you go chasing after unsubstantiated 'miracles'?

You need to learn your Church's teachings before you go getting all swoony at the first sign of some dubious 'signs'.

I told you. I'm not interested in what some guy tells me is valid or invalid.

Does this miracle promote the truth of the Catholic Faith that a consecrated Host would become literal heart tissue? Yes, it does.

Do the people pilgrimaging to the site understand it that way? Yes, they do.

I'm not interested in what some guy has to say about the validity of the Mass. I am interested in what Micheal Davies has said about it, what Archbishop Lefebvre has said about it or what Cardinal Ottaviani has said about it.

You're nobody.

Stephen Francis · « **Reply #16 on:** October 05, 2011, 10:57:16 AM »

@Nishant2011:

What 'traditional Catholic studies' would those be? The opinions of Conciliar presiders and prelates, no doubt.

I'd rather stay faithful to the dogmatic declarations in Quo Primum[/b], which docuмent says that NOTHING can be altered or removed from the Missal which was promulgated at that time.

If it was unerringly and finally pronounced as Catholic then, it is Catholic NOW.

If it is different from what was delivered then, it is, at BEST, dangerously questionable NOW.

There doesn't NEED to be another 'version', poorly-translated or otherwise; there has been ONE Canon for centuries, and it did not, does not and CANNOT be changed or abrogated.

What part of "shall incur the wrath of Almighty God and of the blessed Apostles Peter and Paul" do you and your Novus friends fail to understand?

Doesn't the rise in ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ perversities, sɛҳuąƖ abuses, financial improprieties, liturgical 'innovations' which blaspheme Our Lord and insult Our Lady, and all the other trashy developments CLEARLY indicate that God's hand of protection and mercy is NOT ON THE NOVUS ORDO? He is OBVIOUSLY allowing the damnable thing to collapse on itself in a morass of sin, scandal and ecuмenical heresy.

You can keep your magical 'miracle wafer'. The Novus Ordo IS SIN by virtue of its very existence.

St. Anthony of Padua, hammer of heretics, terror of Hell, pray for us.

Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.

Charles · « **Reply #17 on:** October 05, 2011, 11:09:48 AM »

Mr Francis, you would do well to simply state you don't believe the miracle has occurred rather than spew what may be blasphemy.

Charles · « **Reply #18 on:** October 05, 2011, 11:12:58 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Samurai

This could be just God's way of giving these people a clue and saying that He is literally there in the flesh (or at least He's supposed to be).

I'm sure there are some people in that church who are or have been doing some reflecting.

That's my thought on it as well.

Augstine Baker · « **Reply #19 on:** October 05, 2011, 12:37:04 PM »

Quote from: Charles

Quote from: Catholic Samurai

This could be just God's way of giving these people a clue and saying that He is literally there in the flesh (or at least He's supposed to be).

I'm sure there are some people in that church who are or have been doing some reflecting.

That's my thought on it as well.

It could just as easily be a sign that God is truly present in a Host consecrated by a priest ordained in the New Rite, too.

Stephen Francis · « **Reply #20 on:** October 05, 2011, 02:58:42 PM »

Yes, you're all absolutely right. It COULD be.

rowsofvoices9 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 05, 2011, 05:33:12 PM »

Quote from: Stephen Francis

Quote from: Augustine Baker
You read some books and decided you knew best and most about all things.

Would you please tell me how ANYTHING I have posted since beginning here would lead you to believe that I claim to know 'best' OR 'most' about ANYTHING, let alone ALL things?

So far, you haven't offered a single shred of evidence for the validity of your Novus 'service', let alone for the validity of this so-called 'miracle'.

Would you please explain, using actual, verifiable proofs, how you can equate the Novus Ordo 'memorial meal' with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, which is a PROPITIATORY SACRIFICE?

Here's a hint: you can't, because the FORM has been declared UNALTERABLE by Holy Church, and yet, Bugnini and his Protestant henchmen went and attempted to CHANGE the words of the Canon and the Consecration to something that DOES NOT EVEN IMPLY, LET ALONE ACTUALLY DECLARE, that there is a SACRIFICE, and that what is happening IS THE MISTERIUM FIDEI, not the little 'sing-along' bit about Christ dying, rising and returning.

Read some books? Friend, I was RAISED Protestant. I have more knowledge of how totally un-Catholic your Novus services are than you can possibly imagine. Unlike you, who sat around waiting to be told what to believe by whoever just happened to be behind that picnic table, I watched not a 'collapse' of anything, but a gradual, intentional and mutinous usurpation of the authority of the Church by men who meant to destroy Her... I KNOW this to be true, because they are echoing the WORDS, the ACTIONS, the THEOLOGIES and the RUBRICS of Protestant/Masonic heretics who have PUBLICLY insisted that the Catholic Church MUST be destroyed.

Bugnini, Ratzinger and the rest have all just been singing a song I was raised to sing all my life.

Now, what is it that's going to prove otherwise? Nothing. Only a return to Tradition and the eradication of the heretical New Order will bring about the 'miracles' you are so desperate to believe in.

Why don't you try humbling yourself before what's been DEFINED and promulgated as DE FIDE before you go chasing after unsubstantiated 'miracles'?

You need to learn your Church's teachings before you go getting all swoony at the first sign of some dubious 'signs'.

Sadly it appears that you still have that Protestant mind set of being your own authority. It is my understanding that the right to determine matters of discipline belongs to the Pope alone. Who are any of us to decide whether the Novus Ordo is valid or not? As Supreme Pontiff Paul VI acted within his right to make changes to the liturgy since he possessed "supreme, full, immediate and universal power". The way Mass is celebrated is a matter of discipline, not of faith or morals. Your assertion that Quo Primum forever bound they way Mass was to be celebrated is just plain wrong. Words such as "forever" and "in perpetuity" are ecclesiastical legalese found in many Church docuмents. No Pope even if he is a saint as is the case with Pius V, has the right to bind all future Pontiffs in the exercise of their right to make changes to the liturgy. I would argue that this applies to all the other sacraments as well. A few changes in the words said do not render a sacrament invalid. Validity depends on matter, form and intent.

http://stjosephplacentia.org/RCath-L/Val_Mass.htm

What are the essential words, the form of the sacrament of the Eucharist? St. Justin Martyr says the words that effect the change of bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus are "This is my body" and "This is my blood."8 St. John Chrysostom refers to the bread ("This is my body") but does not refer to the consecration of the wine.9 St. Ambrose of Milan follows the lead of St. Justin Martyr.10 Other Fathers of the Church considered the epiclesis as the form (St. Irenaeus, St. Cyril of Jerusalem) while still others refer to the prayer of blessing or what we would call the Eucharistic Prayer. In the anaphora, an early Eucharistic Prayer from The Apostolic Tradition, we find the first recorded Eucharistic Prayer. The words of institution used there are "This is my body" and "This is my blood which is poured out for you." Now, assuming that the Eucharist was validly confected by these earlier Masses, we must reduce the "form" to the words that are found in common. Thus, the "form" of the Eucharist must be "This is my body" and "This is my blood." As long as these words are said, assuming proper intention and that the one saying them is a validly ordained priest, the confection of the Eucharist takes place.

If this is truly a Eucharistic miracle in the NO rite I quess a lot of Sedes are going to have to rethink their position.

Stephen Francis · « **Reply #22 on:** October 05, 2011, 09:40:25 PM »

Quote from: rowsofvoices9

Your assertion that Quo Primum forever bound they way Mass was to be celebrated is just plain wrong.

Really? Let's read a little from the saintly Pope who composed it:

Quote from: Pope St. Pius V in [b

QUO PRIMUM[/b]]We specifically command each and every patriarch, administrator and all other persons of whatsoever ecclesiastical dignity, be they even Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church or possessed of any other rank or preeminence, and We order them by virtue of holy obedience to sing or to read the Mass according to the rite and manner and norm herein laid down by Us, and henceforward to discontinue and utterly discard all other rubrics and rites of other missals, howsoever ancient, which they have been accustomed to follow, and not to presume in celebrating Mass to introduce any ceremonies or recite any prayers other than those contained in this Missal.

Furthermore, by these presents and by virtue of Our Apostolic authority We give and grant in perpetuity that for the singing or reading of Mass in any church whatsoever, this Missal may be followed absolutely, without any scruple of conscience or fear of incurring any penalty, judgment or censure, and may be freely and lawfully used. Nor shall bishops, administrators, canons, chaplains, and other secular priests, or religious of whatsoever Order or by whatsoever title designated, be obliged to celebrate Mass otherwise than enjoined by Us. We likewise order and declare that no one whosoever shall be forced or coerced into altering this Missal and that this present Constitution can never be revoked or modified, but shall for ever remain valid and have the force of law, notwithstanding previous constitutions or edicts of provincial or synodal councils, and notwithstanding the usage of the churches aforesaid, established by very long and even immemorial prescription, saving only usage of more than 200 years.

What about those words do you fail to understand? You'd really like people to think that the statements above were made in regard to DISCIPLINE, and not in regard to FAITH and MORALS? Are you senseless? The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass IS THE CENTERPIECE OF OUR FAITH. IT CONTAINS WHAT IS APOSTOLIC AND UNCHANGED FROM THE TIME OF CHRIST!

I read NOT PRESUME TO INTRODUCE ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT IS IN THAT MISSAL.

I read that the above words CANNOT BE REVOKED OR MODIFIED BUT WILL FOREVER RETAIN THE FORCE OF LAW.

I guess the 'force of law', from the mouth of the Pope himself, means nothing to the NO in their quest to enthrone an ecuмenical 'god' who is not only powerless to stop what is going on in the NO, but is in fact ENCOURAGING much of it.

Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.

Stephen Francis · « **Reply #23 on:** October 05, 2011, 09:48:44 PM »

Oh, wait... forgot one:

Quote from: Pope St. Pius V in [b

QUO PRIMUM[/b]]Now therefore, in order that all everywhere may adopt and observe what has been delivered to them by the Holy Roman Church, Mother and Mistress of the other churches, it shall be unlawful henceforth and forever throughout the Christian world to sing or to read Masses according to any formula other than that of this Missal published by Us;

Caminus · « **Reply #24 on:** October 05, 2011, 11:21:08 PM »

Stephen, first of all, you seem to think that a terrible liturgy somehow renders the Consecration invalid, which it obviously does not. It is only a very few words that confect the Sacrament. The short form of the Consecration is the more probable opinion, thus your certitude cannot transcend this level of certitude, much less the very specific question of whether "for all" renders the form invalid, which it does not.

Your second assumption is that a miracle within the Novus Ordo is somehow a sign of approval of the liturgy itself. This is a false inference. God works this kind of miracle, if this truly is a miracle, in order to strengthen dying faith, not approve of someone's spiritual state or the quality of the liturgy.

Nishant · « **Reply #25 on:** October 06, 2011, 08:15:55 AM »

Stephen,

Trent

Quote

“furthermore declares, that this power has ever been in the Church, that, in the dispensation of the sacraments, their substance being untouched, it may ordain,–or change, what things soever it may judge most expedient, for the profit of those who receive, or for the veneration of the said sacraments, according to the difference of circuмstances, times, and places.”

The Church can loose what the Church has bound. This is also shown by the action of Popes long before the Second Vatican Council, quite contrary to

Quote

"CANNOT BE REVOKED OR MODIFIED BUT WILL FOREVER RETAIN THE FORCE OF LAW. "

About "for all", consider that Our Lord said that He would give His flesh for the life of the world speaking of its virtue even though not all the world would receive the fruits.

I am not about to say that there hasn't been grave pastoral negligence in the last half century. Apart from a more expressive and theocentric text, I would prefer restoration of ad orientem worship, Latin in the liturgy, reverence and reflection during the Holy sacrifice.

But, then, I am only a layman and it is not in my power to enforce such changes. Therefore, I can only pray and wait. In the new translation, I for my part see a small step in the right direction. While I understand where you are coming from, I do not agree with you completely.

Stephen Francis · « **Reply #26 on:** October 06, 2011, 08:39:32 AM »

@Caminus:

While you and I do not agree about the validity of the NO service, I wish to take a moment here and say something VERY important and germane to this discussion:

THANK YOU for your gracious, measured and reasonable response to what I have posted. You did not resort to calling me 'a nobody', you did not ignore the Papal authority that I quoted and you actually wrote something with a basis in Church teaching, or at least one understanding of it.
I'm glad your contribution was more substantial than "it's a miracle! it MUST be real! it's got people thinking about god and stuff!"

THANK YOU, again.

I'm sorry to be as blunt as I am about to be, but "for all" IS NOT the same as "for many", which are the Words of Our Lord, who also said that He did not "pray for those IN the world, but for those [God has] given" to Jesus. He specifically said that there were those to whom the knowledge of the Kingdom of God was not given, ergo, not everyone would come to Him in faith. The promise that WHOEVER comes to Him, He will never cast out, is NOT the same as promising that His Blood would be shed 'for all'. The Blood of Christ is efficacious in the satisfaction of the sin debt ONLY of those who approach Him in the state of grace, thereby eliminating many, many people daily wherever a True Mass is offered.

That said, however, I DO believe that one way in which the Novus Ordo COULD have really kick-started some wonderful new history in the Church would have been in the area of EVANGELIZATION. Assuming, which I do, that Christ said "for many", OR assuming that the words "for all" are valid, which you do, EITHER WAY, there is a STRONG case to be made for going into the world and making catechumens of people from every nation (St. Matthew 28:18-20). Obviously, the merit of Christ's Sacrifice, offered in the Mass to whoever comes in humble faith, in the state of grace, impels us to go and teach those who are ignorant so that they might come to receive the Remedy for their sins as well.

Allow me to now address what you called my 'second assumption', namely, the idea that a legitimate miracle wrought by God validates an invalid liturgy.

You only touched on the most obvious and surface-level application of my meaning when I said that God was not approving and would not approve the NO with such a sign.

I did not confine my application of 'God's approval' to the validity of the LITURGY... I meant, and still mean, that not only the liturgy is faulty, but so, in countless cases, is the spiritual atmosphere in which things like this take place. The Novus Ordo has done more than any new-age book to promote religious indifferentism and superstition. I would be willing to guarantee that there are people oohing and aahing over this 'miracle' there in Poland right now who are totally in love with Ratzinger's false ecuмenism, likewise with the apostasies of Wojtyla. These people are NOT being 'confirmed in faith', or 'strengthened' in some 'weak faith'; they are NOT Catholics. One cannot believe that what Wojtyla did at Assisi was licit and remain a Catholic. One cannot believe that Wojtyla's act of kissing a Mohammedan 'h-ly book' was permissible in any way and still remain a Catholic. Those acts were abjectly heretical and definitive of Wojtyla's apostasy from the Faith. Likewise, Ratzinger has prayed WITH and FOR heretics, even going so far as to attend their 'services' and allow his bishop (Mahony in Los Angeles) to invite heretics to perform THEIR SERVICES IN A CATHOLIC CATHEDRAL! Ratzinger, too, has proven to be apostate. The Church strictly condemns, according to Canon Law, the acts these men have performed PUBLICLY and REPEATEDLY, mind you, which makes their heresies obstinate, since they both OBVIOUSLY have had opportunity to be told that what they were doing was gravely wrong.

What I mean to say, after all that, is this: I got DRAWN into a pointless rehashing of the text of Quo Primum, which HAS THE FORCE OF LAW FOREVER, after I had specifically stated "you're all absolutely right; it COULD be", and was prepared to quit the discussion.

I will state it again: YES, YES, YES there is a possibility that a literal, actual, genuine miracle has taken place there in Poland. That said, I DO NOT CARE WHETHER IT IS VALID OR NOT. I RESERVE THE RIGHT TO OBEY THE MANDATES OF HOLY CHURCH THAT HAVE BEEN IN FORCE SINCE LONG BEFORE THE NOVUS ORDO ARRIVED. THEREFORE, SINCE I AM NOT BOUND TO ACCEPT WHAT HAPPENED THERE AS DE FIDE, I CHOOSE TO IGNORE IT UNLESS I AM SHOWN CONCLUSIVELY THAT THE MIRACLE IN QUESTION IS LEGITIMATE. EVEN THEN, NEITHER I NOR ANYONE ELSE WILL BE BOUND TO BELIEVE IN ITS VERACITY EXCEPT AS A MATTER OF PERSONAL DEVOTION.

Caminus, please know that the above was typed that way for emphasis for the sake of some of our other contributors, and was not meant to be taken as 'yelling at you'.

St. Clare of Assisi, lover of Christ in the Eucharist, pray for us.

Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.

rowsofvoices9 · « **Reply #27 on:** November 08, 2011, 02:00:18 PM »

For all you who doubt the validity of the priesthood and sacraments of the Novus Ordo, here is another Eucharistic miracle. This miracle have been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be authentic. God is so amazing!!!

http://catholic-and-christian.blogspot.com/2011/01/two-eucharistic-miracles-compared.html

TWO EUCHARISTIC MIRACLES COMPARED

Note: This is from a forwarded e-mail and am posting it verbatim - meng
This was sent to us by a friend in New Jersey . Most interesting! If you have had the blessing of going to Lanciano to view that Eucharistic miracle, you will certainly understand what the priest was talking about.
God bless.
Fr. Jeff's homily..........

THIS IS POWERFUL!!!!! PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ IT AND DISTRIBUTE TO OTHERS.

Dear friends who usually get my homilies: I am sending along a homily from my friend, young Father Jeffrey Montz. He was ordained a priest a year ago, and is now the Parochial Vicar at St. Frances of Assisi . Perhaps, as moving as the homily is Fr. Jeff's note to me which I have copied and attached to the end of the homily.

Here is Fr. Jeff's Homily: “I am the bread of life.” In the year 2009, I was distributing communion to the faithful when a young woman approached and extended her hands to receive the Eucharist. Almost as soon as I had placed the Host in her hands, she began moving away and in the process she dropped the host. Standing over the fallen Host lying on the ground, a slight giggle, shrug of the shoulders, and re-extended hands, her body language said to me, “Ooops, I dropped it. Can you give me another one?”

“I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.”

August 15, 1996 an elderly Eucharistic minister was distributing the Precious Body of Christ to the faithful in a parish in Buenos Aires , Argentina when a similar accident occurred. Not wanting to consume the Host because it was dirty after falling to the ground, he asked the priest to pick it up. Reverently the priest placed the Host in a receptacle of water and put it into the Tabernacle where it would dissolve with time. Six days later when the priest examined the Host that should have been dissolved by now, he was perplexed by what he saw. The Eucharist seemed to have grown in size and was covered with red splotches.

Leave it for a few more days, he thought; it’s just a matter of time. But then with each passing day the Sacred Species took on the appearance of coagulated blood, until eventually the Host looked like a piece of flesh. “The bread that I will give is my flesh.” A miracle! Perhaps, but first this had to be investigated. A lab in Buenos Aires examined a sample from the Host. The scientist discovered red blood cells, white blood cells, and hemoglobin, but what perplexed him the most was that the cells were moving and beating.

Three years later Dr. Ricardo Gomez was called in to perform a more thorough examination. He sent a sample from the Host to a lab in New York but didn’t tell them what it is; he wanted them to tell him what it is. They did. It’s living muscle from a human heart.

Now the year is 2004, Dr. Gomez had located a unique doctor named Frederick Zugibe whose expertise in examining the heart of a dead person allows him to know the nature of the person’s death. He too was given an opportunity to examine the Host without knowing that this heart was formerly a round wafer of wheat bread. His findings?

The heart belonged to a person who had been severely tortured. “So Pilate wishing to satisfy the crowd, released Barabbas and after flogging Jesus, he handed him over to be crucified.”

After his examination, Dr. Zugibe passionately said to Dr. Gomez, “You have to explain one thing to me, if this sample came from a person who was dead, then how could it be that as I was examining it the cells of the sample were moving and beating? If this heart comes from someone who died in 1996, how can it still be alive?” When Dr. Gomez explained to Dr. Zugibe that it was the Eucharist, he nearly pulled his hair out of his head in shock.

Backtrack to the 8th Century in Lanciano, a town in southern Italy where a priest was celebrating the Mass doubting that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist. As he raised the Host, it instantly transformed into a piece of flesh in his hands. In the 1970's this piece of flesh, which remains available for veneration to this day, was tested by a leading Italian doctor. His findings? It is living muscle from a human heart. Dr. Gomez decided to cross examine the Host from Buenos Aires with this Host from Lanciano.

Amazingly, both hearts were found to have come from the same person. “I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.” My brothers and sisters, our faith proclaims to us the wondrous mystery that Jesus Christ is truly, really, and substantially present in the Eucharist, the Bread of Life. It’s no mere symbol, no mere reenactment. It is the Precious Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ! What I place in your hand or upon your tongue is not a ritual piece of bread. I place God in your hand! I place God on your tongue!

I know that even after telling you the story of the Eucharistic miracle in Buenos Aires , I haven’t proven this. I can never prove this truth, because it’s a matter of faith. However, all I’m asking my brothers and sisters is that you ponder the story I shared with you this morning.

Perhaps, the skeptic in you calls it all a bunch of lies.

Perhaps, the unimpressed call it a coincidence.

Perhaps you’re a person of faith and you’re in awe at what I’ve shared with you. All I ask is that if there’s the slightest inkling in your hearts that what you receive in the Eucharist is the flesh of God, then please my brothers and sisters, never let the lance that pierced my heart in 2009 when that young woman stood carelessly over God’s fallen Body pierce my heart again. Please treat this mystery which you receive with the reverence God deserves.

HERE IS FR. JEFF'S RESPONSE TO ME WHEN I ASKED PERMISSION TO PASS HIS HOMILY ON TO YOU. Hey, I've heard it said that in any good homily we're really preaching to ourselves. That being said, as familiar as I was with the homily before I delivered it, I found that in delivering it to the people it still had an effect upon my heart. For lack of better words it stirred me. Afterwards, I found that my celebration of the Eucharistic Prayer was even more meaningful. I can't express how moved my heart was as I said those words, "This is my body." Those words seemed to flow from my heart as if they were flowing directly from the Heart of Christ. The tone of those words almost became a tone of pleading on Jesus' part, "This is my body," "please believe me; this IS my body and I want all of you to believe and to receive my Heart of Love!" We are so blessed to have the Eucharist!!! Anyways, I'd be happy if you should share this homily with others; these are the miraculous stories that God wants us to share so that our faith can be strengthened. As it says in the Scriptures, "Encourage one another while it is still day." It's sort of like the Transfiguration which was revealed to Peter, James, and John so that they could persevere through the Passion and death of Jesus. And I wouldn't even mind if you didn't give me credit. After all, it is God who deserves all the credit on this one; I just did the typing :)

Also, to make the process of distribution easier I could email you a copy of the homily if you'd like. Just let me know.

Blessed be the Name of the Lord now and forever! Your brother, Jeff

Stephen Francis · « **Reply #28 on:** November 08, 2011, 04:45:26 PM »

Quote from: aquinasg

And not everything in the Tridentine mass is perfect. It was divided up into the Mass of the Catechumens and Mass of the Faithful, which seems to imply that there is a Mass in the first part of the celebration, which is heresy!

You, sir, are an idiot. The other knowledgeable people on this forum must be away from their desks right now, or your words quoted above would be sparking a firestorm right now.

To call the Mass of the ages heretical in any way is offensive to God and to Holy Church. The Mass WAS CODIFIED at the Council of Trent!

You said that the 'Mass of the Catechumens' is 'heresy'. So, Holy Church DECREED HERESY and said that this 'heretical' Mass was binding forever?

You don't even understand the meaning of the term 'Mass'. It is from the Latin 'missa' which means 'sent out'. The Mass of the Catechumens is the part of the Mass that ENDS before the Sacrifice; those who were NOT ALLOWED TO RECEIVE COMMUNION YET were then SENT OUT OF THE SANCTUARY for further catechesis BEFORE the Sacrifice of the Altar was confected.

To equate 'mass' with 'eucharist' just shows another facet of your modernist, Novus Ordo naivete. You argue to defend the perverted heretics in Newchurch, yet you are totally ignorant of even the most basic of terminology, let alone doctrine.

I even knew the difference between the Mass of the Catechumens and the Mass of the Faithful when I was an anti-Catholic Protestant. What's your excuse?

Diego · « **Reply #29 on:** November 08, 2011, 05:29:58 PM »

Quote from: Stephen Francis

You [referring to aquinasg], sir, are an idiot.

Maybe "Raca!" would even apply [joking].

"Aquinas" (as if!) has opened up many fallacious fronts. He (?) has used straw man arguments, ignored logical inference, attempted evasion, indulges popolatry, teaches false obedience, and is the nadir of willful Vatican 2 distortion of the Faith.

He calls evil good, and good evil: puts darkness for light, and light for darkness: puts bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter. He rues wise in his own eyes, and prudent in his own conceits.

He is the personification of Isaias 5:20-21.

I say starve him for the attention his narcissistic flaming craves.