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Author Topic: Etsi Multa and the crisis today  (Read 1374 times)

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Re: Etsi Multa and the crisis today
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2023, 06:00:43 AM »
Not sure how you could see it this way. " they boldly affirm that the Roman Pontiff and all the bishops, the priests and the people conjoined with him in the unity of faith and communion fell into heresy when they approved and professed the definitions of the Ecuмenical Vatican Council. Therefore they deny also the indefectibility of the Church and blasphemously declare that it has perished throughout the world and that its visible Head and the bishops have erred. "
Is this not the same position as the SSPX?


No, it’s the sedes who believe the Church has perished throughout the world.

Offline Stubborn

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Re: Etsi Multa and the crisis today
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2023, 09:52:45 AM »
Quote
the Roman Pontiff and all the bishops, the priests and the people conjoined with him in the unity of faith and communion fell into heresy when they approved and professed the definitions of the Ecuмenical Vatican Council. Therefore they deny also the indefectibility of the Church and blasphemously declare that it has perished throughout the world and that its visible Head and the bishops have erred. "

No, it’s the sedes who believe the Church has perished throughout the world.
I believe the point is that PPIX is condemning the idea of saying the pope, all the bishops and people would fall into heresy by approving the definitions of an Ecuмenical Council (V1), and that to say so amounts to, or admits that the Church has defected, which is heresy.

The sedes understand this to mean the conciliar popes were/are not popes because PPIX essentially is saying if that were to ever happen, then the Church will have defected.

What is being missed here is the fact that V2 never having defined anything at all, never had even one definition to profess. Had V2 defined one of V2's heretical doctrines, then the sedes would indeed have a legitimate argument and the condemnation of PPIX would apply, but it doesn't apply to V2 or the idea of a schismatic SSPX.


Re: Etsi Multa and the crisis today
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2023, 11:23:48 AM »
A friend who believes the SSPX is in schism sent me Etsi Multa as an attempt to give a "kill shot" to the idea of sedevacantism and the idea that V2 is heretical. Curious what the traditionalist view on this docuмent is. Here is the most relevant section: [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]And surely what these sons of perdition intend is quite clear from their other writings, especially that impious and most imprudent one which has only recently been published by the person whom they recently constituted as a pseudo-bishop. For these writings attack and pervert the true power of jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff and the bishops, who are the successors of blessed Peter and the apostles; they transfer it instead to the people, or, as they say, to the community. They obstinately reject and oppose the infallible magisterium both of the Roman Pontiff and of the whole Church in teaching matters. Incredibly, they boldly affirm that the Roman Pontiff and all the bishops, the priests and the people conjoined with him in the unity of faith and communion fell into heresy when they approved and professed the definitions of the Ecuмenical Vatican Council. Therefore they deny also the indefectibility of the Church and blasphemously declare that it has perished throughout the world and that its visible Head and the bishops have erred. They assert the necessity of restoring a legitimate episcopacy in the person of their pseudo-bishop, who has entered not by the gate but from elsewhere like a thief or robber and calls the damnation of Christ upon his head.[/color]

Link: https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9etsimu.htm
I think if one equates Vatican I with Vatican II, then I would see their point.  Vatican I was Catholic.  Vatican II was not.