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Author Topic: Errors about Eastern Rite Churches  (Read 3448 times)

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Offline Centroamerica

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Errors about Eastern Rite Churches
« on: January 07, 2026, 10:41:42 AM »
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  • What follows is a factual correction of the recurring errors, distortions, and falsehoods I found circulated in traditionalist and SSPX-adjacent circles about the Byzantine Catholic Church and its liturgy. These claims are not matters of taste or preference but assertions that can be measured against history, theology, and canon law.

    One of the most common accusations is that the Byzantine Catholic Church is Orthodox, semi-Orthodox, or schismatic. This is categorically false. The Byzantine Catholic Church is in full communion with Rome, both juridically and sacramentally. Byzantine Catholics profess communion with the Bishop of Rome, are explicitly listed and governed within Catholic canon law, possess valid hierarchies and jurisdictions, and celebrate valid sacraments. A different liturgical rite does not constitute a different Church, and equating non-Latin worship with schism reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of Catholic ecclesiology. This error persists largely because SSPX-influenced polemics often treat Latin practice as synonymous with Catholic identity, a position that is historically indefensible.

    Another frequent claim is that the Byzantine Catholic Churches altered or modernized their liturgy after the Second Vatican Council. The reality is precisely the opposite. Where the Latin Rite underwent structural reform after the council, the Byzantine Churches undertook a process of restoration by removing Latinizations that had been imposed or adopted over centuries. These included the insertion of the rosary into liturgical life, the addition of the Filioque into the Creed, and the borrowing of Roman rubrical practices foreign to the Byzantine tradition. The Divine Liturgies of Saint John Chrysostom and Saint Basil were not rewritten or reinvented but returned more closely to their historical forms. Restoration was mistaken for innovation only by those unfamiliar with what the Byzantine tradition actually is.

    Traditionalist critics also frequently accuse Byzantine Catholics of heresy for reciting the Nicene Creed without the Filioque, claiming that this represents a denial of Catholic Trinitarian doctrine. This accusation collapses under basic historical scrutiny. The original Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed promulgated in 381 states that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. The Filioque clause, stating “and the Son,” was added later in the Latin West without an ecuмenical council and was never accepted by the Eastern Churches. Rome itself explicitly permits Eastern Catholic Churches to omit the Filioque, recognizing this as a legitimate theological expression within Catholic unity rather than a doctrinal defect. To label this omission heretical is to contradict Rome’s own magisterial discipline.

    Closely related to this is the claim that the Latin Church preserves the original Creed while the Byzantines stubbornly refuse to update it. In reality, the situation is reversed. The Byzantine Churches continue to pray the original ecuмenical text of the Creed, while the Latin Rite uses a later modified version. The Latin addition was historically contested and played a direct role in the East–West schism. The irony is that those accusing Byzantines of innovation are defending the later textual alteration while condemning fidelity to the original form.

    Another persistent calumny is that Byzantine spirituality is modernist, ecuмenist, or infected by Vatican II. This misunderstands the very nature of Byzantine theology. The Byzantine spiritual and theological tradition predates scholasticism, Thomism, and the modern Western theological framework by centuries. Its central emphases include theosis or deification, ascetic struggle, fasting, liturgical immersion, and continuity with the Greek Fathers. Far from being shaped by modernist categories, Byzantine theology often stands outside the intellectual currents that produced modernism in the West. If anything, it remains less affected by modern Western theological controversies.

    There is also a tendency to characterize the Byzantine Divine Liturgy as casual, informal, or even Protestantized. This claim is difficult to reconcile with reality. The Divine Liturgy is almost entirely chanted, follows a highly fixed and ancient textual structure, and allows virtually no improvisation by the celebrant. There are no optional Eucharistic prayers, no creative adaptations, and no scope for personal liturgical expression. Measured by rigidity and textual stability alone, the Byzantine liturgy is in many respects stricter than the Roman Rite.

    Another common error is the assertion that because Byzantines do not use scholastic or Thomistic categories, they therefore reject Catholic doctrine. Scholasticism, however, is a theological method, not a dogma. The Eastern Fathers articulated the same revealed truths using patristic, mystical, and often apophatic language rather than Aristotelian metaphysics. Differences in theological expression do not imply differences in faith, and the Church has never required a single theological method as a condition of orthodoxy.

    Finally, some traditionalist rhetoric treats the Eastern Catholic Churches as tolerated anomalies, temporary concessions, or marginal curiosities within the Catholic Church. This too is false. The Catholic Church has always been pluriritual. Many Eastern Churches predate the Latin Rite in their regions, possess their own hierarchies and canonical systems, and are explicitly protected by canon law. They are not guests within the Church but constitutive parts of it.

    Taken together, these accusations reveal less about the Byzantine Churches and more about the assumptions of those making them. Much SSPX-adjacent polemic conflates Latin medieval development with Catholic dogma, treats post-Tridentine Western practice as the universal norm, and views anything outside that framework with suspicion. This produces a Latin-centric tunnel vision rather than a genuinely Catholic universality.

    The conclusion is straightforward. The common traditionalist claims that the Byzantine Catholic Church is schismatic, Orthodox, modernist, liturgically corrupted after Vatican II, heretical for omitting the Filioque, or spiritually inferior are not merely debatable but factually false. What is often presented as a defense of tradition is, in reality, the projection of Western post-medieval assumptions onto a Church that never shared them.

    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    If the authority does not serve truth, the authority is defective.

    But defect does not automatically tell you how the defe

    Offline Caminus

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    Re: Errors about Eastern Rite Churches
    « Reply #1 on: January 08, 2026, 12:06:10 AM »
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  • Thanks chatgpt.


    Offline Todd The Trad

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    Re: Errors about Eastern Rite Churches
    « Reply #2 on: January 08, 2026, 03:11:27 AM »
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  • Although I'm a Latin Rite Catholic I have attended Eastern Catholic Liturgies dozens of times over the years and read a decent amount about it. I am by no means an expert but I feel like I know more about some of the Eastern Rites than most Latin Rite Catholics. I'd like to respond to some of your points and pose some concerns;


    I absolutely agree that there are numerous Eastern Catholic Rites which are every bit as Catholic as the Latin Rite (23 Eastern Rites). I also realize a lot of people are not aware of this. What doesn't help though are those Eastern Catholics who like to refer to themselves as "Orthodox in communion with Rome." I've spent some time over the years on a Byzantine Catholic forum and there are Eastern Catholics who don't think they are bound by the Ecuмenical Councils after the Great Schism. I realize that the Eastern tradition has its own theological expressions and explanations, which is completely legitimate, however there are those who believe that this gives them the right to reject or ignore what they refer to as "Roman Dogmas" (Immaculate Conception, Purgatory, Indulgences, etc). I also realize that the internet amplifies certain opinions and this probably does not represent the vast majority of Eastern Catholics.


    I'm sure you're aware of the drastic changes to the Maronite Liturgy post V2. Also the Syro-Malabar Rite has experienced major "liturgy wars" fairly recently over which way the priest faces and when. You claim that the Byzantine Divine Liturgy has not been "modernized" at all. While it certainly hasn't been tampered with to the extent of the Latin Liturgy since Vatican 2, the Ruthenian Divine Liturgy has been revised several times to include things like inclusive language, gender neutral language, and certain prayers and litanies have been greatly abridged. Many Ruthenien Catholics refer to the newer Luturgy book as the "Teal Terror". I will post some links where this is discussed further below and attach a few PDF files but for starters here's a quote from a Bishop Andrew Pataki;

    "Because the Revised Divine Liturgies promulgated on 6 January 2007 are both incomplete and introduce many changes the faithful are denied their right to the Liturgy laid down by the Church at Rome when it promulgated the official Church Slavonic edition of the Byzantine Divine Liturgies for the Ruthenian Recension (beginning in 1942). No other Byzantine Catholic or Byzantine Orthodox Church has engaged in this type of experimentation with the Divine Liturgy. Indeed, the other Byzantine Catholic and Orthodox Churches that share in the Ruthenian Recension are working diligently to renew the celebration of the Divine Liturgy in accordance with the shared standard that exists in the official Slavonic books published by Rome."


    The following link includes many sources and discussion about this DL revision;

    https://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/425253/1


    Finally, I am concerned that many Eastern Catholic Churches venerate Eastern Orthodox "Saints" from after the schism such as Gregory Palamas, Mark of Ephesus, Seraphim of Savor, etc. This has always been very concerning to me and it seems like you get a different answer every time you ask about whether its official or not. 

    Finally, as far as Vatican 2 is concerned, communion means you share the same faith with whom you are in communion with. Whether the Eastern Liturgies have any Vatican 2 ideas in them or not, the Eastern Catholic Churches are in communion with Rome and therefore they are at least implicitly proclaiming to have the same faith, just like the FSSP or ICKSP use the 1962 missal but implicitly accept V2 nevertheless.  

    I am by no means against Eastern Catholicism. I think the Liturgies, prayers, theology and traditions are very rich and beautiful, however I defiantly think there are some issues you may be overlooking. Thank you for the post however. I think this is a very important subject. God bless. 

    Our Lady of La Salette, pray for us!

    Offline Centroamerica

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    Re: Errors about Eastern Rite Churches
    « Reply #3 on: January 08, 2026, 07:25:25 AM »
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  • Thanks chatgpt.
    I’ve been writing here for over a decade. And my writing style, having been published in the Remnant, is distinct.

    There’s no need for someone with my learning and experiences to have AI pretend to be me.

    Further, having a computer reformat something you wrote on another clipboard somewhere is not the same as having nothing to contribute to the conversation.

    That would be you. If you can argue anything other than — “it’s chatgpt!”, go ahead. Everyone is more than ready to see what you have to say.

    If you can’t respond than that just means that you
    -have no argument of your own
    - are very prone to accusations and drama
    - have a shallow understanding of the Church that becomes defensive when you have no rational answer to provide.

    Accusing my posts of being AI generated isn’t intelligence. It’s hurt feelings masquerading as wisdom for someone who lacks devotion.

    See how I just did that right there. What I’m doing here is better than AI. Keep the accusatory language coming.

    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    If the authority does not serve truth, the authority is defective.

    But defect does not automatically tell you how the defe

    Offline Centroamerica

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    Re: Errors about Eastern Rite Churches
    « Reply #4 on: January 08, 2026, 08:02:46 AM »
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  • Although I'm a Latin Rite Catholic I have attended Eastern Catholic Liturgies dozens of times over the years and read a decent amount about it. I am by no means an expert but I feel like I know more about some of the Eastern Rites than most Latin Rite Catholics. I'd like to respond to some of your points and pose some concerns;


    I absolutely agree that there are numerous Eastern Catholic Rites which are every bit as Catholic as the Latin Rite (23 Eastern Rites). I also realize a lot of people are not aware of this. What doesn't help though are those Eastern Catholics who like to refer to themselves as "Orthodox in communion with Rome." I've spent some time over the years on a Byzantine Catholic forum and there are Eastern Catholics who don't think they are bound by the Ecuмenical Councils after the Great Schism. I realize that the Eastern tradition has its own theological expressions and explanations, which is completely legitimate, however there are those who believe that this gives them the right to reject or ignore what they refer to as "Roman Dogmas" (Immaculate Conception, Purgatory, Indulgences, etc). I also realize that the internet amplifies certain opinions and this probably does not represent the vast majority of Eastern Catholics.


    I'm sure you're aware of the drastic changes to the Maronite Liturgy post V2. Also the Syro-Malabar Rite has experienced major "liturgy wars" fairly recently over which way the priest faces and when. You claim that the Byzantine Divine Liturgy has not been "modernized" at all. While it certainly hasn't been tampered with to the extent of the Latin Liturgy since Vatican 2, the Ruthenian Divine Liturgy has been revised several times to include things like inclusive language, gender neutral language, and certain prayers and litanies have been greatly abridged. Many Ruthenien Catholics refer to the newer Luturgy book as the "Teal Terror". I will post some links where this is discussed further below and attach a few PDF files but for starters here's a quote from a Bishop Andrew Pataki;

    "Because the Revised Divine Liturgies promulgated on 6 January 2007 are both incomplete and introduce many changes the faithful are denied their right to the Liturgy laid down by the Church at Rome when it promulgated the official Church Slavonic edition of the Byzantine Divine Liturgies for the Ruthenian Recension (beginning in 1942). No other Byzantine Catholic or Byzantine Orthodox Church has engaged in this type of experimentation with the Divine Liturgy. Indeed, the other Byzantine Catholic and Orthodox Churches that share in the Ruthenian Recension are working diligently to renew the celebration of the Divine Liturgy in accordance with the shared standard that exists in the official Slavonic books published by Rome."


    The following link includes many sources and discussion about this DL revision;

    https://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/425253/1


    Finally, I am concerned that many Eastern Catholic Churches venerate Eastern Orthodox "Saints" from after the schism such as Gregory Palamas, Mark of Ephesus, Seraphim of Savor, etc. This has always been very concerning to me and it seems like you get a different answer every time you ask about whether its official or not. 

    Finally, as far as Vatican 2 is concerned, communion means you share the same faith with whom you are in communion with. Whether the Eastern Liturgies have any Vatican 2 ideas in them or not, the Eastern Catholic Churches are in communion with Rome and therefore they are at least implicitly proclaiming to have the same faith, just like the FSSP or ICKSP use the 1962 missal but implicitly accept V2 nevertheless. 

    I am by no means against Eastern Catholicism. I think the Liturgies, prayers, theology and traditions are very rich and beautiful, however I defiantly think there are some issues you may be overlooking. Thank you for the post however. I think this is a very important subject. God bless.

    I think a lot of the concerns you’re raising come from applying a specifically post-Tridentine Latin framework as if it were the universal measure of Catholicity, and that’s where the disconnect starts. The Eastern Catholic Churches are not Latin Rite bodies with a different aesthetic; they are self-governing Churches with their own liturgical history, theological language, and internal discipline, all of which predate the medieval and modern Western developments you’re implicitly using as the standard.

    On the question of Vatican II, communion does not mean identical reception or identical emphasis. Vatican II was a council responding primarily to problems internal to the Latin Church, and Rome itself explicitly stated that Eastern Catholic Churches were to preserve their own traditions rather than absorb Latin frameworks wholesale. Being in communion with Rome does not require Eastern Churches to mirror Latin theological categories, devotional systems, or post-conciliar controversies. That is not how Catholic unity has ever functioned.

    Regarding the Divine Liturgy, it’s simply not accurate to speak of “the Byzantine liturgy” as if it were a single monolithic phenomenon that was modernized across the board. The Ruthenian revisions you mention were real and were criticized sharply by Eastern Catholics themselves. But that actually proves the opposite of what is often implied. Those changes were deviations from Byzantine tradition under modern Latin pressure, not expressions of Byzantine theology. Other Byzantine Catholic Churches did not follow that path, and even critics of the Ruthenian books appealed to the official Slavonic texts published by Rome as the standard. Even today you see pages taped over in missals to prevent modernism in the form of Latinism from creeping in. The protection of the Byzantine Liturgy against Latinisms is also a protection against Modernism. 

    The issue of post-schism saints also needs to be handled with more precision. In the East, sanctity was never recognized through a centralized juridical process in the same way it was in the post-Tridentine Roman Church. Liturgical commemoration does not function as a blanket endorsement of every later theological or ecclesiological position held by a figure. A case-by-case approach is not modernist; it’s historically honest. Acknowledging that some commemorations may be pastorally unwise does not justify collapsing entire Eastern Catholic Churches into accusations of schism or doctrinal corruption. The Latin Rite fragmentation Churches even criticize themselves on which saints are accepted. I think there is plenty confusion in the Latin Rite Church about the acceptance of saints. 

    As for language like “Orthodox in communion with Rome,” I agree it can be sloppy, but internet rhetoric is not ecclesiology. Anecdotal forum posts don’t define a Church’s doctrine. Eastern Catholic Churches are bound by Catholic dogma, even when they express it through a patristic and non-scholastic idiom that predates later Western definitions. The Byzantine Church is an orthos Church. 

    The Roman Canon itself speaks of orthodoxis atque catholicae et apostolicae fidei cultoribus, where “orthodox” clearly means right-believing Catholics, not a simplistic ecclesiological category. Treating “Orthodox” as a synonym for spiritual nullity is a later polemical habit, not a liturgical one.

    In the end, raising questions is legitimate. Treating isolated issues, local abuses, or unfamiliar expressions as proof that Eastern Catholicism is essentially Orthodox or modernist is not. That conclusion doesn’t follow historically, theologically, or canonically, and it mistakes Latin uniformity for Catholic unity.

    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    If the authority does not serve truth, the authority is defective.

    But defect does not automatically tell you how the defe


    Offline Todd The Trad

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    Re: Errors about Eastern Rite Churches
    « Reply #5 on: January 08, 2026, 08:27:28 AM »
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  • I realize that the Eastern Churches have traditionally "canonized" Saints in a different manner, however in order to venerate or commemorate a "Saint" who died separated from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is absurd to me and seems heretical. The Orthodox Churches themselves certainly do not officially recognize Catholic Saints. 

    Again although I disagree with you about the Eastern Church's reception of V2 (btw V2 was announced as an Ecuмenical Council not just for the Latin Rite), I'm with you that all 23 Eastern Catholic Rites and their particular theological emphasis, prayers, Liturgies, etc are just as valid and "Catholic" as the Latin Rite so long as it is all completely compatible with the dogmatic definitions of the Church.

    I absolutely do not believe that Eastern Catholicism is "modernist" or "Orthodox" inherently. However I also believe there are certain issues with modernism and the "Orthodox in communion with Rome" mentality which have infected some Eastern Catholic circles (albeit far less than the Latin Rite regarding modernism). I'm not trying to pick at certain abuses or isolated incidents. I'm just trying to point out that things aren't absolutely pristine on the Easter Catholic side of things, that even the Eastern Catholic spheres weren't completely left unscathed after V2. The priest at the Ruthenean parish I attend occasionally has referred to the Jews as our "elder brethren" :facepalm: I believe the Eastern theological emphasis, traditional prayers, Liturgies, etc are just as Catholic as the traditional Roman Rite's as I said initially. As I mentioned, I love the Divine Liturgy (of St. John Chrysostom and St. Basil) and would love to experience some of the other liturgical rites. There is actually an Eritrean Catholic Church nearby me which uses the Alexandrian Rite that I'm excited to check out soon.


    The more I sit and reflect, my only potentially major issue with Eastern Catholicism is the issue of venerating "Saints" who died outside of communion with the Catholic Church. To me that severely attacks EENS. 
    Our Lady of La Salette, pray for us!

    Offline Todd The Trad

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    Re: Errors about Eastern Rite Churches
    « Reply #6 on: January 08, 2026, 08:49:24 AM »
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  • *To the OP: Do you have any traditional, anti-modernist Eastern Catholic priests or bishops you could point me toward to check out? 
    Our Lady of La Salette, pray for us!

    Offline Centroamerica

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    Re: Errors about Eastern Rite Churches
    « Reply #7 on: January 08, 2026, 10:52:40 AM »
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  • *To the OP: Do you have any traditional, anti-modernist Eastern Catholic priests or bishops you could point me toward to check out?

    Do I have any priests that you can check out?

    Go to a Byzantine church and talk to them. Don’t be a weirdo online trying to check out priests like you’re some grand inquisitor and they have to check your smell test. 

    Better yet, just stay in the Latin Rite. And keep all your friends with you. You can still save your soul just as well there and ask your own priests to submit to you. 
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    If the authority does not serve truth, the authority is defective.

    But defect does not automatically tell you how the defe


    Offline Todd The Trad

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    Re: Errors about Eastern Rite Churches
    « Reply #8 on: January 08, 2026, 10:34:33 PM »
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  • Do I have any priests that you can check out?

    Go to a Byzantine church and talk to them. Don’t be a weirdo online trying to check out priests like you’re some grand inquisitor and they have to check your smell test.

    Better yet, just stay in the Latin Rite. And keep all your friends with you. You can still save your soul just as well there and ask your own priests to submit to you.
    What in the world are you talking about? I was merely asking if you knew of any good traditional Eastern Catholic bishops or priests who put out YouTube videos or have some good articles, etc. 
    Our Lady of La Salette, pray for us!