Author Topic: Efforts to convert Jews "a horrible misunderstanding"  (Read 1259 times)

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Offline LM

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Efforts to convert Jews "a horrible misunderstanding"
« on: March 13, 2011, 08:20:43 PM »
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  • Check out the comments by the "deacon" etc., which follow the article.



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    Pope Benedict admits Christians efforts to convert the Jews have been ‘a horrifying misunderstanding’.

    By Deacon Nick, on March 11th, 2011

    In the second volume of his trilogy, Jesus of Nazareth, Pope Benedict makes a statement that, potentially, will have a profound and beneficial effect on Catholic and Jewish relations. In the section dealing with ‘The Time of the Gentiles’ the Holy Father gives a biblical justification for Christians not seeking to convert Jews at this phase of salvation history.

    Pope Benedict indicates that past efforts to seek the conversion of the Jews were a horrifying misunderstanding on the part of Christians.

    ‘In this regard, the question of Israel’s mission has always been present in the background. We realize today with horror how many misunderstandings with grave consequences have weighed down our history. Yet a new reflection can acknowledge that the beginnings of a correct understanding have always been there, waiting to be rediscovered, however deep the shadows.’ (p.44).

    Pope Benedict quotes with approval Hildegard Brem’s comments:

    ‘In the light of Romans 11:25, the Church must not concern herself with the conversion of the Jews, since she must wait for the time fixed for this by God, ‘until the full number of the Gentiles come in’ (Rom 11:25).  On the contrary, the Jews themselves are a living homily to which the Church must draw attention, since they call to mind the Lord’s suffering’.  (p.45).

    This does not mean that the Jews do not require conversion to faith in Jesus, but that this is in the hands of God as his original chosen people, and is not in the hands of the Church at the present time.

    The duty of the Church at the present time, the ‘time of the gentiles’,  is to focus on her mission to evangelise every gentile nation of the world, because it is only when the Church has fulfilled this responsibility that the next phase of salvation history can commence, God’s conversion of the Jewish people to faith in Jesus as saviour of the world.

    Furthermore, Hildegaard Brem, and Pope Benedict, are proposing that the Jews must have a special place in the hearts and prayers of Christians, because their innocent sufferings call to mind the Lord’s suffering. Surely this must involve our recognition that for centuries Christians have been involved in the shameful crucifixion of the Jewish people.  It is heart breaking to realise how horrifyingly wrong Christians have been in their understanding of God’s plan for the Jewish people, and the terrible consequences that have flowed from this misunderstanding of scripture.

    Pope Benedict’s radical thoughts on this matter do not appear to require that the Church change her prayer for the Jewish people on Good Friday because it is not a prayer that encourages Christians to convert the Jewish people but only to pray that they remain true to His covenant and come to the ‘fullness of redemption’, that is, redemption through Christ, which we now understand is in God’s own time.

    Let us pray
    For the Jewish people,
    The first to hear the word of God,
    That they may continue to grow in the love of his name
    And in faithfulness to his covenant
    Almighty and eternal God,
    Long ago you gave your promise to Abraham and his posterity.
    Listen to your Church as we pray
    That the people you first made your own
    May arrive at the fullness of redemption.

    Having said this, it does mean that as Christians we must not focus our missionary activity on evangelising the Jewish people.  If individual Jews approach Christians to hear the Gospel that is their choice on their journey of faith, but we must be reactive, not proactive.

    http://protectthepope.com/?p=2679

    Offline PartyIsOver221

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    Efforts to convert Jews "a horrible misunderstanding"
    « Reply #1 on: March 13, 2011, 08:36:44 PM »
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  • Another strike in the million-wide strikeout column of ol Papa Ratzi.

    No more evidence needed. This is another blatant one...blaspheming the works of God through St. Peter and St. Paul.


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Efforts to convert Jews "a horrible misunderstanding"
    « Reply #2 on: March 13, 2011, 08:44:06 PM »
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  • Is that Deacon Nick or Neo-con D___ ?

    Seriously, Nick is just taking BXVI's words to heart.
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Efforts to convert Jews "a horrible misunderstanding"
    « Reply #3 on: March 13, 2011, 09:40:25 PM »
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  • Has the SSPX said anything about the Pope's statements stating that Jews should not be evangelized?

    Offline Jehanne

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    Efforts to convert Jews "a horrible misunderstanding"
    « Reply #4 on: March 13, 2011, 10:12:38 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Has the SSPX said anything about the Pope's statements stating that Jews should not be evangelized?


    No, strangely, they are silent, as is the Saint Benedict Centers.


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Efforts to convert Jews "a horrible misunderstanding"
    « Reply #5 on: March 13, 2011, 10:52:31 PM »
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  • It is not strange, Jehanne.  What CAN they say in response to such non-Catholic insanity?
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Efforts to convert Jews "a horrible misunderstanding"
    « Reply #6 on: March 13, 2011, 11:52:45 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Has the SSPX said anything about the Pope's statements stating that Jews should not be evangelized?


    What CAN they say?  That this is just more evidence that the Pope needs to convert to the Faith?

    He is selling out (and long ago sold out) ALL the Gospel teaches and stands for, so...  
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Efforts to convert Jews "a horrible misunderstanding"
    « Reply #7 on: March 14, 2011, 12:22:27 AM »
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  • The SSPX usually responds via the DICI site a few days later. They did this after the condom debacle. They are probably carefully forumlating a response as we speak. They probably need to wait for the full text to come out.


    Offline Jehanne

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    Efforts to convert Jews "a horrible misunderstanding"
    « Reply #8 on: March 14, 2011, 06:27:08 AM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    The SSPX usually responds via the DICI site a few days later. They did this after the condom debacle. They are probably carefully forumlating a response as we speak. They probably need to wait for the full text to come out.


    True.  The condom response came out within a few days.  The US SSPX site posted the link to the DICI site, which is here (in English):

    http://www.dici.org/en/

    I have been checking the site at least once a day for the past several days, or more, depending on when this story hit the news.  As of 6:26 CDT, nothing.

    Offline Jehanne

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    Efforts to convert Jews "a horrible misunderstanding"
    « Reply #9 on: March 14, 2011, 06:29:10 AM »
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  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    It is not strange, Jehanne.  What CAN they say in response to such non-Catholic insanity?


    They are certainly in a pickle.  I mean, is it right to "negotiate" with manifest heretics?  Yes, I have been reading more on CMRI's website, but I promise to be polite about it.

    Offline TKGS

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    Efforts to convert Jews "a horrible misunderstanding"
    « Reply #10 on: March 14, 2011, 07:15:31 AM »
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  • Quote from: Jehanne
    Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    It is not strange, Jehanne.  What CAN they say in response to such non-Catholic insanity?


    They are certainly in a pickle.  I mean, is it right to "negotiate" with manifest heretics?  Yes, I have been reading more on CMRI's website, but I promise to be polite about it.


    While I have great concerns about the Society, we have to remember that, from the beginning, the Society has been very consistent in saying that they are NOT negotiating with the Vatican.

    In fact, what they say they are doing is precisely what the Vatican has been doing with Protestant groups:  discussing doctrinal issues and trying to find common ground.  That Bishop Williamson has said that they have been unable to find any common ground, because, unlike the Vatican, the Society has not been willing to compromise on the faith so far, the doctrinal discussions are yielding no agreements and will likely end this spring.

    I can see no downside to talking with people about the True Faith in the hopes of converting them.  Even Saint Paul did so.

    What doesn't make sense is saying that you're doing this to the person you hold to be your leader.


    Offline Jehanne

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    Efforts to convert Jews "a horrible misunderstanding"
    « Reply #11 on: March 14, 2011, 07:31:48 AM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    Quote from: Jehanne
    Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    It is not strange, Jehanne.  What CAN they say in response to such non-Catholic insanity?


    They are certainly in a pickle.  I mean, is it right to "negotiate" with manifest heretics?  Yes, I have been reading more on CMRI's website, but I promise to be polite about it.


    While I have great concerns about the Society, we have to remember that, from the beginning, the Society has been very consistent in saying that they are NOT negotiating with the Vatican.

    In fact, what they say they are doing is precisely what the Vatican has been doing with Protestant groups:  discussing doctrinal issues and trying to find common ground.  That Bishop Williamson has said that they have been unable to find any common ground, because, unlike the Vatican, the Society has not been willing to compromise on the faith so far, the doctrinal discussions are yielding no agreements and will likely end this spring.

    I can see no downside to talking with people about the True Faith in the hopes of converting them.  Even Saint Paul did so.

    What doesn't make sense is saying that you're doing this to the person you hold to be your leader.


    Of course, I put "negotiate" in quotes for a reason.  I am going to start another thread on this, but as Father Feeney pointed out (not with respect to BoD/BoB but EENS), it is amazing that Catholics could have been "in the dark" for so long, almost 2,000 years, in fact, and now comes Pope Benedict, "light of the world" (no pun intended) to, finally, set things straight.  Reminds of the old SNL parody (not that I watch that show very much) about Opie, in his later years, returning to Mayberry to find the town in complete disarray.


     

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