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Author Topic: Eastern Rites  (Read 5813 times)

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Offline Bellato

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Re: Eastern Rites
« Reply #60 on: March 17, 2019, 07:37:51 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on March 16, 2019, 07:59:57 PM
    I'm the same way.  I have a very high threshold for red-lighting a valid Mass or Liturgy and feeling that I can skip my obligation.  I too have never heard heresy taught by an Eastern Rite priest.  Liberalism to one extent or another, yes, but nothing more than you might find at any even Latin Rite pre-Vatican II parish.  In a Ukrainian Rite church a few months ago, I heard a stronger defense of EENS than I had ever heard at any SSPX-aligned chapel.
    I agree, I wouldn’t red light a mass unless I absolutely have to.  The threshold for me is very high for me before cutting myself off from a valid Mass using the Catholic rite said by a priest who is definitely validly ordained.  Unless the priest is spouting heresy or some other important reason, I would still go.
    You’re blessed to have such a good priest who still openly professes the truth about EENS.  
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    Offline Bellato

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    Re: Eastern Rites
    « Reply #61 on: March 17, 2019, 07:54:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on March 17, 2019, 07:31:45 AM
    I don't understand this.  Where does the Catholic Church teach that an Eastern Rite Catholic should go to an Orthodox service at all.
    The Catholic Church doesn’t teach this.
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    Offline Ric

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    Re: Eastern Rites
    « Reply #62 on: March 17, 2019, 07:55:12 AM »
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    • Who is this priest who defends EENS?  The only one I know is a priest of the UGCC who is no longer with the Chicago Eparchy.  I haven't heard from him for a few years.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Eastern Rites
    « Reply #63 on: March 17, 2019, 07:58:28 AM »
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    • Quote from: Bellato on March 17, 2019, 07:54:11 AM
    The Catholic Church doesn’t teach this.
    Isn't this what "Confederate Catholic" is saying though?  Or am I completely misunderstanding him?
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Eastern Rites
    « Reply #64 on: March 17, 2019, 08:32:00 AM »
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    • You can not apply Roman canon law and its interpretation to eastern catholic churches which have their own law. Eastern canons don't ever state 'obligation' we simply do not have them in the same way. for example I would be excommunicated if I missed the three masses in a row, i would be excommunicated if i fast on Saturday.
    we see God in a 'different' way theologically i am supposed to be at church three times a day and am expected to pray at home what is missed, if i can not get to church any service i am supposed to do in church can be done in an orthodox church. 
    communion with the orthodox is what is not done unless there is an agreement between the hierarchy of both churches which does happen.
    the right to attend orthodox churches was originally in the 83 Latin code but was expressly surpressed since there is no tradition of this ever being done in the west.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Eastern Rites
    « Reply #65 on: March 17, 2019, 09:03:12 AM »
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    • Quote from: confederate catholic on March 17, 2019, 08:32:00 AM
    You can not apply Roman canon law and its interpretation to eastern catholic churches which have their own law. Eastern canons don't ever state 'obligation' we simply do not have them in the same way. for example I would be excommunicated if I missed the three masses in a row, i would be excommunicated if i fast on Saturday.
    we see God in a 'different' way theologically i am supposed to be at church three times a day and am expected to pray at home what is missed, if i can not get to church any service i am supposed to do in church can be done in an orthodox church.
    communion with the orthodox is what is not done unless there is an agreement between the hierarchy of both churches which does happen.
    the right to attend orthodox churches was originally in the 83 Latin code but was expressly surpressed since there is no tradition of this ever being done in the west.
    So can you provide the support in the "eastern law" that allows for Eastern Rite Catholics to attend Orthodox services?  

    Added:  Even the "western law" (aka JPII heretical law), Orthodox services/sacraments are allowed in very limited/dire circuмstances.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Bellato

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    Re: Eastern Rites
    « Reply #66 on: March 17, 2019, 09:08:33 AM »
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    • Quote from: confederate catholic on March 17, 2019, 08:32:00 AM
    You can not apply Roman canon law and its interpretation to eastern catholic churches which have their own law. Eastern canons don't ever state 'obligation' we simply do not have them in the same way. for example I would be excommunicated if I missed the three masses in a row, i would be excommunicated if i fast on Saturday.
    we see God in a 'different' way theologically i am supposed to be at church three times a day and am expected to pray at home what is missed, if i can not get to church any service i am supposed to do in church can be done in an orthodox church.
    communion with the orthodox is what is not done unless there is an agreement between the hierarchy of both churches which does happen.
    the right to attend orthodox churches was originally in the 83 Latin code but was expressly surpressed since there is no tradition of this ever being done in the west.
    This is V2 theology infecting the East. You will not find any eastern Catholic sources supporting this view until after V2.  This ecuмenical junk theology needs to be rejected by Catholics of both east and west.
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    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Eastern Rites
    « Reply #67 on: March 17, 2019, 11:35:24 AM »
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    • there can be no response to someone who is determined to find errors of VII in a code of law going back to Emperor Justinian.

    You do understand that in Russian Orthodox liturgies who are the most uberdox even they don't commemorate any patriarch.
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    Offline Bellato

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    Re: Eastern Rites
    « Reply #68 on: March 17, 2019, 11:57:02 AM »
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    • Quote from: confederate catholic on March 17, 2019, 11:35:24 AM
    there can be no response to someone who is determined to find errors of VII in a code of law going back to Emperor Justinian.

    You do understand that in Russian Orthodox liturgies who are the most uberdox even they don't commemorate any patriarch.
    Then prove it and quote from eastern Catholic law, Pre-V2, that allowed Catholics to attend schismatic liturgies.  I can save you the time if you like, there was no such animal.  

    This article gives a history on the subject and the decisions of the Holy Office which affected all Catholics east and west.  http://www.latinmassmagazine.com/articles/articles_2006_AC_Allan.html

    I also have pre-V2 eastern Canon Law, it does not say what you are asserting.

    I stand by my assertion that this is V2 junk theology and it has infected eastern Catholics, in the same way that it has infected Latin Catholics.  It is poison and must be rejected.
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    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Eastern Rites
    « Reply #69 on: March 17, 2019, 01:36:30 PM »
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    • Quote
    As to the first category, the Holy Office addressed the question about whether Catholics can receive sacraments from non-Catholics. It said that Catholics may do so provided the following conditions are in place.25 The first is that there must be grave and urgent cause.26 Second, it must be administered by a validly ordained non-Catholic priest who administers the sacrament by a Catholic rite without any mixing of the condemned rite (ritus damnati).27 Third, by the communicatio in divinis, there must be no external professing (protestatio) of false dogma. Fourth, it must not cause scandal. While this pertains to the reception of sacraments for a grave and urgent cause, for those occasions which are outside of those conditions, it is forbidden. 
      So then not actually forbidden
    I would love to read your copy of a code before 90 since no uniform code existed
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    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Eastern Rites
    « Reply #70 on: March 17, 2019, 02:06:35 PM »
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    • Also sacraments are given in almost every eastern rite inside the liturgy
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    Offline Bellato

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    Re: Eastern Rites
    « Reply #71 on: March 19, 2019, 04:27:59 PM »
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    • Quote from: confederate catholic on March 17, 2019, 01:36:30 PM
     So then not actually forbidden
    I would love to read your copy of a code before 90 since no uniform code existed
    I never said a “Code” of Canon Law, but as you should know Pope Pius XII has approved many laws for the eastern rites.  He and those under him were working towards an eastern Code.  

    I have a good book on it by Fr. Popishil, but cannot find it right now.  

    Anyway, all this is besides the point.  Where is your proof that the eastern rite Catholic Churches allowed its people to attend Orthodox churches prior to V2.  That is the crux of the matter, and it needs to be addressed by you, not me, as you have asserted this, and have yet to prove your assertion.  

    I have said on here and still say that this is not true, that the eastern Catholics, as did Roman Catholics never allowed this practice, and it is a V2 novelty in both Latin and Eastern Churches.

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    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Eastern Rites
    « Reply #72 on: March 21, 2019, 12:40:48 PM »
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    • Quote
     I never said a “Code” of Canon Law, but as you should know Pope Pius XII has approved many laws for the eastern rites. 
    Quote
     I also have pre-V2 eastern Canon Law, it does not say what you are asserting. 
    ??
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    Offline Bellato

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    Re: Eastern Rites
    « Reply #73 on: March 21, 2019, 11:28:37 PM »
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    • Quote from: confederate catholic on March 17, 2019, 08:32:00 AM
    You can not apply Roman canon law and its interpretation to eastern catholic churches which have their own law. Eastern canons don't ever state 'obligation' we simply do not have them in the same way. for example I would be excommunicated if I missed the three masses in a row, i would be excommunicated if i fast on Saturday.
    we see God in a 'different' way theologically i am supposed to be at church three times a day and am expected to pray at home what is missed, if i can not get to church any service i am supposed to do in church can be done in an orthodox church.
    communion with the orthodox is what is not done unless there is an agreement between the hierarchy of both churches which does happen.
    the right to attend orthodox churches was originally in the 83 Latin code but was expressly surpressed since there is no tradition of this ever being done in the west.
    “Where is your proof that the eastern rite Catholic Churches allowed its people to attend Orthodox churches prior to V2.  That is the crux of the matter, and it needs to be addressed by you, not me, as you have asserted this, and have yet to prove your assertion. “

    ??

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    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Eastern Rites
    « Reply #74 on: March 22, 2019, 02:36:08 PM »
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    • 1- I quoted the very article you cited which stated that there were conditions already in place for going to receive sacraments in need

    2- You are asking me to quote from canon law which did not exist

    3- Canons which do exist are not interpreted by laypersons

    4- In the east we cite church fathers, St. Athanasius required his clergy to commune semi arians
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