Author Topic: Earth/ Sun Relativity (Read 3201 times)

roscoe · « **on:** December 03, 2009, 01:41:51 AM »

I would like to remind the Forum that some here acquire great anxiety when asked to declare whether they believe that Earth rev around the Sun or the other way around.

I am on record as saying E/S.

CM · « **Reply #1 on:** December 03, 2009, 03:13:14 AM »

And I S/E. Ciao.

Jamie · « **Reply #2 on:** December 03, 2009, 03:52:32 AM »

And I: does it matter? How does this lead us to salvation?

CM · « **Reply #3 on:** December 03, 2009, 03:59:38 AM »

The point is this: When a person starts to believe that the Holy Scriptures and the Church fathers can be disregarded by favouring unproven 'scientific' theories, one has begun a precedent of compromise with reality, compromise with the truth. It is a very specious position in which to place oneself.

In other words, if you read the Scriptures and the Church Fathers and see their unanimity in interpreting Scripture geocentrically, but yet you deny that this is how the universe is arranged, you imperil your soul by contradicting the same Fathers and Scriptures.

Jehanne · « **Reply #4 on:** December 03, 2009, 06:34:16 AM »

Quote from: roscoe

I would like to remind the Forum that some here acquire great anxiety when asked to declare whether they believe that Earth rev around the Sun or the other way around.

I am on record as saying E/S.

The Earth goes about the Sun. That is as much of a fact as the computer keyboard that I am typing on!

Belloc · « **Reply #5 on:** December 03, 2009, 07:32:26 AM »

Quote from: Jehanne

Quote from: roscoe
I would like to remind the Forum that some here acquire great anxiety when asked to declare whether they believe that Earth rev around the Sun or the other way around.

I am on record as saying E/S.

The Earth goes about the Sun. That is as much of a fact as the computer keyboard that I am typing on!

maybe it does, maybe it does not, even scientists and others still debate this.....it is an opinion, not a 100% provable fact...either way....

Belloc · « **Reply #6 on:** December 03, 2009, 07:34:02 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

The point is this: When a person starts to believe that the Holy Scriptures and the Church fathers can be disregarded by favouring unproven 'scientific' theories, one has begun a precedent of compromise with reality, compromise with the truth. It is a very specious position in which to place oneself.

In other words, if you read the Scriptures and the Church Fathers and see their unanimity in interpreting Scripture geocentrically, but yet you deny that this is how the universe is arranged, you imperil your soul by contradicting the same Fathers and Scriptures.

would you then, for the record, declare that a person believing in heliocentrism is going to Hell?

(I am open on this topic and have no set stance as of yet, still learning)

Jehanne · « **Reply #7 on:** December 03, 2009, 09:44:21 AM »

Quote from: Belloc

Quote from: Jehanne
Quote from: roscoe
I would like to remind the Forum that some here acquire great anxiety when asked to declare whether they believe that Earth rev around the Sun or the other way around.

I am on record as saying E/S.

The Earth goes about the Sun. That is as much of a fact as the computer keyboard that I am typing on!

maybe it does, maybe it does not, even scientists and others still debate this.....it is an opinion, not a 100% provable fact...either way....

It is both provable and 100% certain. To say otherwise is to obfuscate one's own sense of reality.

Belloc · « **Reply #8 on:** December 03, 2009, 09:48:36 AM »

Quote from: Jehanne

Quote from: Belloc
Quote from: Jehanne
Quote from: roscoe
I would like to remind the Forum that some here acquire great anxiety when asked to declare whether they believe that Earth rev around the Sun or the other way around.

I am on record as saying E/S.

The Earth goes about the Sun. That is as much of a fact as the computer keyboard that I am typing on!

maybe it does, maybe it does not, even scientists and others still debate this.....it is an opinion, not a 100% provable fact...either way....

It is both provable and 100% certain. To say otherwise is to obfuscate one's own sense of reality.

then why is there mountains of evidence, biblical, Fathers,Popes,secientific and othersise that still bring into question your personal opinion?

Have you flown to space and watched the movements? conduct testing?

You beleive in heliocentrism because it was taught to you as fact, just like many are tought as fact evolution.....poor teaching that admits no other views to weigh and compare....

again, maybe helio view is correct, maybe Geo view is...but it is not a matter of "reality", whatever that means....it is a matter of scienctific and faith investigation

Belloc · « **Reply #9 on:** December 03, 2009, 09:51:45 AM »

will add, when praying tonight, will let the Holy souls-Popes,fathers,etc, now that you believe they were not realistic in their geocentrism.. :pop:

Jehanne · « **Reply #10 on:** December 03, 2009, 10:36:24 AM »

That the Earth moves is absolutely certain, no doubt whatsoever. No one "taught" me this. I can prove it, experimentally, all on my own, and so can you! Lots and lots of good information online! All it takes is backyard telescopes, gyroscopes, and perhaps a pendulum or two, and this is just scratching the surface. I have already defended this issue in previous posts, so this is all that I have to say about it now. As for the Fathers of the Church, they were wrong on this issue, as was nearly everyone else, and as it was outside the Deposit of Faith to begin with, there are no consequences to Catholic theology whatsoever by not getting a scientific fact about the World correct. One might as well impugn their theological credibility for not having divined the correct formula for a Big Mac! Just face it, the science of geography was not very good in those days. So what?!

CM · « **Reply #11 on:** December 03, 2009, 02:15:07 PM »

Quote from: Belloc

would you then, for the record, declare that a person believing in heliocentrism is going to Hell?

It is heresy to contradict the unanimous Biblical interpretation of the Church Fathers, as per Pius IX at the Vatican Council. There has never been any form of retraction, either formal or informal, of the Church's censure against the proposition that the earth moves around the sun.

That being said, this proposition is not contained in the basic Christian Creed - is not a necessary dogma like the Incarnation of Christ, without the explicit knowledge of which a person is certainly damned - there are certainly people who have not the resources to realize all this (people on this board could not reasonably be included in this group) and who may simply be in material heresy on the matter. Such people would not be on the road to hell for their material heresy.

CM · « **Reply #12 on:** December 03, 2009, 02:17:19 PM »

Don's arguments are quite unsubstantial in the face of the Church Fathers and Scripture, and of course the historical scientific experiments that support the geocentric conclusion (and those experiments still taking place)

CM · « **Reply #13 on:** December 03, 2009, 02:18:13 PM »

After work, I'll post a very interesting forum discussion I found by one defending the geocentric truth of the universe.

roscoe · « **Reply #14 on:** December 03, 2009, 05:09:52 PM »

CM's conception that S/E flys in the face of 2( only 1 is needed) scientific proofs-- Newton and Bradley.

St Robert Bellarmine--' If Copernicanism( or any part of it-- my comment) were verified, then it would be necessary to use careful consideration in explaining the scriptures that seemed contrary and we should rather have to say that we do not understand them than to say something is false which has been proven'.

This will be dismissed by CM because of his allegation that Card Bellarmine is a 'BoD heretic'.

http://firstjesuits.wordpress.com