SJB, I am glad people encouraged you to stick around.

 :sign-party-time: :wine-drinking: :jumping2: :alcohol:

and even   :argue:

 :dancing:

SJB, I am glad people encouraged you to stick around.

 :sign-party-time: :wine-drinking: :jumping2: :alcohol:

and even   :argue:

 :dancing:

They didn't encourage me, their prudence did; a thing that is somewhat lacking here.

Now Gladius, is "that" or "which" correct here, or may I use either?

As usual I must correct myself.  I said --

But if you lay down with dogs you'll get fleas, as the localism goes, and Malachi never avoided questionable figures -- quite the opposite.  It seems that everyone and their grandmother has had a mysterious encounter with this man, from the VII anti-Popes to the biggest publishers and New York socialites to Thomas Droleskey to personal acquaintances of mine at Church!

Very bad segue.  I didn't mean that Droleskey or the people at my Church were questionable figures.  On the contrary Droleskey is one of the few who has my total trust.  I just was trying to make the point that Malachi Martin gets around.

Elizabeth, forgive me, but it appears you are having a meltdown right before my eyes.  You keep talking about people who speak many languages -- JPII who was one of the worst anti-Christs that ever walked the Earth and he spoke many languages.  I don't know what you're trying to say.

You didn't answer any of the facts I presented but again brought up Michael Hoffman, whose thoughts on Malachi Martin I'd never even read until today after you mentioned it.  In this very thread I said he was getting inordinately consumed with the Jews.  I quote --

I would say in the case of both Hoffman and Pinay that they need to concentrate more on God and less on the devil. I've been down that road and I know how easy it is to get consumed by wrath, to tangle yourself up trying to UNtangle all the lies.

But I understand why he is obsessed, as anyone would be when they realize the extent of the deception.

Then you essentially accuse me of suffering from Jew-paranoia and that is when I lose interest.  That is such old-hat mind control -- whenever someone hits the truth, call them an αnтι-ѕємιтє.  

The Jews control all the sources of information and no one gets famous like Martin without their say-so, or unless you somehow serve their agenda.  Martin was a known friend of the Jєωιѕн publisher Straus of Farrar, Straus and Giroux who published his early books.  Okay?  It's not Hungarians that own all the media; it's Jews who despise Christ and His children with every ounce of their being and want revenge after what they consider centuries of oppression by taking away peoples' reverence of God and leading them to hell.  This, again, is FACT, proven by a quick glance at any TV program, as well as the mindset of the average brainwashed "worldling" today.  This did not happen by accident.  Oh, and now they have taken over the Vatican structures along with their Gentile agents, the Freemasons, as well as those gαys who are slaves to their twisted desires and will do or say anything to be around little boys.

See, it isn't pretty, but this again is REALITY.  And yes, Hoffman strikes me as someone with a threadbare prayer life and I'd even written on the Pinay blog asking him to make a profession of faith.  He doesn't write with much love about Mary, if he writes about her at all, nor does he seem to be brimming over with charity, because he is overtaken with the Jews.  He has also made the classic mistake of sympathizing with nαzιs, seeing THEM as the opposite of Judaism when it is Catholicism that is the opposite of Judaism.  nαzιs were pagan socialists led up the garden path by Jews just as Americans are led up the garden path by Jews through "constitutional patriotism" -- how ironic that Hoffman, expert on Jєωιѕн deception extraordinaire, defends their masterstroke, the Freemasonic Constitution, which gave Jews their long desired "religious" liberty!

Again, Hoffman is not my mentor or hero -- that would be more like Droleskey.  However Hoffman is BRILLIANT beyond belief on the occult media, public Freemasonic ritual and the Jews, and I've certainly taken what I feel are the good aspects of his researches.

As for Malachi Martin's books, I have talked about his work over and over and over again.  Do you even read my posts?  I told you I read most of Windswept House and read about many of his other books -- I'm not going to plough through them because by reading the synopses I get the point.  He portrays real-life people under fictitious names and then changes their motives.  Just what our time needs -- more confusion.

I also listened to the Art Bell interview.  I've seen other interviews where he said the Novus Ordo Mass was valid if performed in a certain way, whatever that means.  

I shouldn't say "Who cares" about Malachi Martin.  God cares about him, as He cares about all of us.  I'm sure that many times in Malachi's life God advised him to shut up and stop digging himself in deeper.  Because I cannot see much of a positive contribution that he has made to the traditional movement unless I really tie my brain into a knot, like I did a couple posts ago, saying his books were perhaps designed to be deliberately unconvincing when they say JPII or the "Slavic Pope" were conservative hold-outs against the encroaching nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr.  I was trying to be nice about your personal favorite by saying even this much.  Notice I haven't even brought up all the double-agent rumors because I'm trying to stick to pure facts; inconsistencies that cannot be disproven.

Elizabeth said

And why do you take the word of Rama Coomaraswamy about MM if you find him so dubious?  Perhaps you could find out for yourself what MM has said and written, by actually reading and listening instead of relying on what you yourself admit is disinformation?

You know, you are right.  It just hit me.

What if Rama is lying and he was not conditionally re-ordained by Malachi Martin?  Father Cekada says on Fisheaters that they did know each other, and that MM told Rama he was a bishop.  And most people on the Internet say they were friends.  But on the Internet so far I have only seen Rama talking about this relationship, and not Malachi.  Malachi himself never said that he re-ordained Rama Coomaraswamy, to my knowledge.  If they were friends it seems rather one-sided.

You know, there is also someone at my Church who told me Malachi died a sedevacantist and that he was pals with Rama.  I put this together with Rama's story and just took this at face value.  But as you point out, Elizabeth, I'd just finished showing how untrustworthy Rama is.

Sorry I accused you of having a meltdown.  I was not connecting all the dots.

This doesn't excuse Malachi, mind you.  His theological position is still false and he was involved in many contradictions.  But this is what we need to find out -- did he ever embrace sedevacantism at any time?  If so, when?  Did he really re-ordain Rama Coomaraswamy and if so who can prove it?

Sorry Raoul but you have only revealed that you do not know what you are on about.  Of course you cannot even possibly have understood what Fr. Martin's books were about without actually reading them.    

The Final Conclave, The Keys to this Blood, Rich Church Poor Church, The Jesuits...

Are you a high school student?  You "get the point" of The Keys to this Blood by reading a synopsis of it?   If you are a teenager, I can see why you might be able to convince yourself that you have "gotten the point" of Fr. Martin's books by reading an online synopsis.    

So what about Fr. Fiore?  

If you are worried about sede vacantists being poorly judged, perhaps you might consider taking a more... reasoned approach?  

 You state "The Jews control all the sources of information and no one gets famous like Martin without their say-so..."

 :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

Are you serious?  Never mind, I don't even want to know.

 

Elizabeth said

Quote

And why do you take the word of Rama Coomaraswamy about MM if you find him so dubious?  Perhaps you could find out for yourself what MM has said and written, by actually reading and listening instead of relying on what you yourself admit is disinformation?

You know, you are right.  It just hit me.

What if Rama is lying and he was not conditionally re-ordained by Malachi Martin?  Father Cekada says on Fisheaters that they did know each other, and that MM told Rama he was a bishop.  And most people on the Internet say they were friends.  But on the Internet so far I have only seen Rama talking about this relationship, and not Malachi.  Malachi himself never said that he re-ordained Rama Coomaraswamy, to my knowledge.  If they were friends it seems rather one-sided.

You know, there is also someone at my Church who told me Malachi died a sedevacantist and that he was pals with Rama.  I put this together with Rama's story and just took this at face value.  But as you point out, Elizabeth, I'd just finished showing how untrustworthy Rama is.

Sorry I accused you of having a meltdown.  I was not connecting all the dots.

This doesn't excuse Malachi, mind you.  His theological position is still false and he was involved in many contradictions.  But this is what we need to find out -- did he ever embrace sedevacantism at any time?  If so, when?  Did he really re-ordain Rama Coomaraswamy and if so who can prove it?

  For heaven's sake, you need to read and listen to Fr. Martin's words.  The Art Bell interview is not going to help, it's just plain lazy!

There is an immense body of serious work by MM, and hour upon hour of very serious Catholic recorded conversation.  

Was he a sede vacantist?  He says over and over that the Superforce has the whole of Rome in its grip.  He says the pope no longer exercises any authority.  But that is too simplistic.  I wish I could send you a CD.  You might say he is more SV than a SV....he is saying that the satanism goes all the way to the top.  

I am listening to an interview I have never heard before as I type.  He says JPII has no power over the Superforce.  This is a very old interview, he is saying they are not even Catholic in the sense that Catholicism has ever been understood.  

Elizabeth says:

Was he a sede vacantist?  He says over and over that the Superforce has the whole of Rome in its grip.  He says the pope no longer exercises any authority.  But that is too simplistic.  I wish I could send you a CD.  You might say he is more SV than a SV....he is saying that the satanism goes all the way to the top.

The "Superforce" goes all the way to the top and the "Pope" is powerless to fight, is that what you're saying?  The Pope is cringing somewhere in the Vatican praying hard day and night  while surrounded by evil advisors? Yes, that really happened, but it was during the reign of Pius XII.

This idea that the "Pope" is a prisoner in the Vatican is the premise of his books and it is sheerest balderdash.  Wojtyla and Ratzinger and Montini were heretics long before their "elections" as "Popes" and continued being so once they were elected.  

Do you really believe that Malachi Martin didn't know during the entirety of JPII's life that the guy was a heretic?  In 1990 and 1996, AFTER Assisi, AFTER his Modernist encyclicals, Martin went out of his way to praise the guy as the last bastion of Catholic strength, in one doorstop-sized tome after another.  Could he have done any more to keep the sedevacantist ideas from taking root?  Here he is in one of the last interviews before his death, conducted with Uri Dowbenko, pushing the same premise:

"No," explains Dr. Martin. "What it means is that for the moment, Lucifer the biggest archangel, the leader of the revolt against God, has a big in with certain Vatican officials. Enthronement doesn't mean that he rules. It means that they did their best to put him there. The ideal would be to have their man as Pope. In that case then Satan would be enthroned."

If the devil doesn't have his agent in the throne of Peter, I would be in SSPX right now... Hm.  Now I'm starting to get why you are where you are.  Too much Malachi.

Raoul76.  Can a pope be a public heretic and still be pope?