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Author Topic: Dr Rama Coomaraswamy...  (Read 22940 times)

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Offline Raoul76

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Dr Rama Coomaraswamy...
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2009, 06:25:05 PM »
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  • Today I've been reading some of what Rama Coomaraswamy has written, and if he is a heretic, he's a subtle one.  More so even than Ratzinger.  

    He often quotes Hindu "metaphysics" in the same breath as Catholic saints and theologians, a questionable approach, but usually with the intention to show the superiority of the Catholic theologians.  USUALLY.  Sometimes the impression is given, deliberately or not, that the Catholic religion only refines the kernel of truth found in other religions, when in reality no other religion except the one revealed by God -- the Old Covenant of Judaism which became the New Covenant of Christ as guided by the Holy Spirit through the Catholic Church -- has any value whatsoever, nor do they come from Him.  

    He does this subtly enough that you can't pin him down as a heretic or blasphemer.  But it still feels slippery.  And I'm pretty sure his approach was condemned by Pius X, if someone wants to go out and dig up the exact quote.

    Why, for instance, does a Catholic need to quote someone like Frithjof Schuon, a "perennialist" who believed in the eventual unity of all religions?  In his essay "On the Nature of Evil" Rama C. writes:  

    Quote
    "As Frithjof Schuon has put it, 'One cannot ask of God to will the world and at the same time to will that it be not the world.'"


    By quoting this in the context of a Catholic article, Rama is suggesting that Frithjof Schuon is speaking of the same God that a Catholic speaks of, but he is not.  Frithjof Schuon's god is the devil.  This is either Ratzingerian in its sneakiness, or it was an honest mistake.  But in the age of Vatican II, why would any traditional Catholic want to associate themselves with another Teilhard?  Whether he was one himself or not, Rama was certainly not very careful about disassociating himself from charlatans.

    I am also not comfortable with a Catholic going on a New Age website called "World Wisdom" and one look at their home page will tell you why.  Books about Catherine of Siena sit side-by-side with titles like "Native Spirit:  The Sun Dance Way," "Gnosis:  Divine Wisdom" and "Wisdom's Journey:  Living the Spirit of Islam in the Modern World."  And Rama's own anti-VII book is sold here!  Syncretism meets sedevacantism, what a mess!

    http://www.worldwisdom.com/public/home.aspx

    The question is, was Rama a syncretist himself?  I think I have suggested the answer.  Take this passage of his, also from The Nature of Evil:  

    Quote
    "The world is a whirlpool of contrasts as is so well expressed in the Hindu word samsara. It is not a unity in its own right. It is no limitation on the Almighty that He cannot produce another Himself, a second Absolute. The world is there to prove it."


    First of all, Rama uses way too many terms and concepts from false religions.  I realize that he was a very learned man in the study of false religions before he became Catholic, and perhaps he doesn't want to let all that knowledge go to waste.  Well, too bad.  "No man putting his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."

    Secondly, what does this quote of his even MEAN?  "A whirlpool of contrasts"?  "The world is not a unity in its own right"?  Ratzingerian gobbeldygook!  The usual Ratzinger tactic of setting up an argument no one has ever made in order to "heroically" destroy it, while subliminally leaving you with a false impression, in this case that the world is DISUNIFIED.  

    Saying that the world can be described as "samsara" or as a bunch of "contrasts," right before saying "it is not a unity in its own right," leads to the conclusion that it must not be a unity at all.  But it is.  And there is no "whirlpool of contrasts."  In this world you only have those who do God's will, corresponding with His grace, and those who reject it.  Two types of people, period, full stop:  Does that sound like a "whirlpool"?  Take your samsara elsewhere, Mr. Coomaraswamy!

    The world is a unity through its creation by God.  God is One and Indivisible and God created the world.  The world, like everything that ever has existed or will ever exist, is also therefore part of this One.  Even hell is part of this One, as it was also created by God.  That is why every knee on the earth, above the earth and UNDER the earth bows to the name of Christ.  It's why those in hell are aware of their separation from God.  Evil is not an alternate principle to God, but is in itself the rejection of God's goodness.  The point being, God created everything, and everything is thus unified.

    Aquinas Pt. 1 Q.45 Art. 1:

    Quote
    "As said above, we must consider not only the emanation of a particular being from a particular agent, but also the emanation of all being from a universal cause, which is God; and this emanation we designate by the name of creation."


    After Rama says that the world is not "unified in its own right," he seems to correct himself by saying that the misuse of our free will is what leads the world away from unity.  Actually, misuse of our free will leads us away from God, as creatures who were MADE by Him yet SEPARATE from Him.  But our choices do not lead the WORLD away from unity.  No matter how chaotic we make the world, God is still in control of this chaos, and he has planned for every misuse of free will, right up until the final apostasy and the consummation of the world in glory.

    And who ever suggested that there would be any purpose for God to create "another Himself, a Second Absolute"?  Again, these hints at duality.

    Is Rama flirting with Manicheanism?  Augustine was a Manichean before conversion, but when he did convert, he became that sect's worst enemy.  When he wrote about Manichean concepts, it was very clear that he was on the attack.  I don't feel that kind of hatred of his former life from Rama.  Instead, he seems to feel a nostalgia and continued fascination with his Hindu/theosophist/syncretist upbringing, and with his father.  And like his father, he comes off as a syncretist, though a far more guarded one.

    He's dead now, so no one will ever be able to judge him except God.  But if he were alive, and the Church had a Pope, I would definitely expect Rama to be called to give an account of himself.  In the current crisis we do not need Frijthof Schuon and Rene Guenon and Ananda C. and Hindu terminology kept in circulation.  At the BEST, this behavior was incautious.  At worst, it was heretical.  You can call me judgmental if you want but I lean towards "heretical."  He had a long life to think about what he was doing, as well as a fantastic brain... But he kept doing it.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline radtrad

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    Dr Rama Coomaraswamy...
    « Reply #31 on: August 28, 2009, 09:02:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    Here you go radtrad --

    1 Edited a book of his guru father's writings after he had converted to traditional Catholicism, speaks about him in laudatory terms, and generally acts as if a syncretist could somehow make a "contribution" to society

    2 Praised Titus Burckhardt

    3 Suggests that we can learn something from the "metaphysics" of Rene Guénon, a Muslim-Catholic-Freemason hybrid, and acts generally as if we have something to learn about metaphysics from scholars of many other religions.  

    Of course Catholic theology is the only theology that has true knowledge of God, and is thus the only true metaphysics; though the Greeks made certain discoveries that were observable from nature, Aquinas completed these discoveries of Aristotle by bringing in what was revealed by God through Jesus Christ, and Aquinas never suggested by commission or omission that we had something to learn from the metaphysics of other RELIGIONS.  Just from the metaphysics revealed by science and observation.

    4 Hangs out with Malachi Martin

    5 In the interview about Rene Guenon you can find by following my link, he speaks of his father having studied the "traditions" that were revealed by God.  Plural.  The only way this can be justified is if he means the Judaism of the Old Testament and the Catholicism of the New Covenant, but we know that his father studied other traditions.  Therefore Rama is saying that there are traditions revealed by God that have nothing to do with the Old or New Covenants, and that is blasphemy.

    Just watch the interview about Guenon and the others.  He uses the word "tradition" with two interchangeable meanings -- the tradition of all religions that man has known, and traditional Catholicism.  He obfuscates and fudges and brings all kinds of irreconciliable concepts together with fuzzy wordplay.  And on a basic level, he is far too concerned with false religions for a so-called traditionalist Catholic, there is no way you can watch these clips and come away thinking that he has rejected them utterly.  He continually implies that they have something to tell us.

    P.S. Roscoe, again you just state that Franz Joseph was a Freemason.  Give me proof.  He had ONE Jew in his inner circle, an advisor, but then so did Isabella of Spain.  And yes, he did help emancipate the Jews, but it doesn't take much guesswork to figure out why.  All over the world, the Freemasonic republics were prospering because they had "liberated" the Jews.  Franz Joseph was presiding over a Catholic-monarchist backwater that was lagging behind, because the republics had the unfair advantage of conscience-free, industrious Jewry at their disposal.  The Jews, who at this point had already become enormously financially powerful, could have used the countries under their control to swallow up Austria, as they eventually did in World War I.  But before that happened, Franz Joseph tried to use Jews to the advantage of his country.  

    Do you think that the Vatican was free of Jєωιѕн monetary connections during the last few centuries?  Get real.  We are ALL living on Jєωιѕн money.  And give Franz Joseph credit for this much -- the Jews were still blocked from many professions, including teaching Catholic children, so that they had no influence over morals in Austria.

    As for Boniface VIII being an anti-Pope, all you have shown me is the picture of a throne.  How do I know that's his, or that it wasn't doctored?  


    Raol,

    Thank you, sincerely.  These are all legitimate problems with him. I had read some of his articles but did not know him as well as I should have.  I was not convinced of the "guilt by association" charges from earlier, but the info something more.  

    Robert
    How Long O Lord... Habakuk 1:1



    Offline Raoul76

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    Dr Rama Coomaraswamy...
    « Reply #32 on: August 29, 2009, 12:01:27 AM »
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  • The name's Mike, actually, but thanks.  

    Don't overlook the "guilt by association" stuff, though.  Why is he promoting his father's writings, or those of Guenon, or Burckhardt?  All this "Pereniallist" mumbo-jumbo?  This is like a Jєωιѕн convert to Catholicism retrospectively praising the тαℓмυd.

    Quote from an interview:  

    Quote
    "But after my father's death I returned to America, where my mother was essentially alone. As it was impossible for me to live as a Hindu in America at that time, and as living without any traditional affiliation was in my mind to live on an animal level, I entered Catholicism which I found completely compatible with my Hindu outlook."


    Or at least you warped Catholicism to make it seem so...  More:

    Quote
    "How do your remember your father?

    "I remember my father as a most saintly man and learn from him every day."


     This is not as innocent as it may appear; it's not just a son praising his father.  His father poisoned the West with Eastern mysticism.  His father was an occultist and "Perennialist" -- those who believed that all religions would blend into one super-religion.  

    Wikipedia on Pereniallism:  

    Quote
    "The Traditionalist School of thought, also known as Integral Traditionalism (in the sense of Integralism) or Perennialism (in the sense of perennial philosophy, or Sophia Perennis) is an esoteric movement inspired by the interwar period writings of French metaphysician René Guénon and developed by authors such as German-Swiss philosopher Frithjof Schuon, the Ceylonese-British scholar Ananda Coomaraswamy, Italian occultist Julius Evola,[1] Titus Burckhardt, Martin Lings, Huston Smith, and Seyyed Hossein Nasr. The movement divided in 1948-50 after a split between Guénon and Schuon."


    No wonder it is so confusing when Rama uses the word "Traditional"!  

    And on a purely gossipy level, Ananda Coomaraswamy was married four times, and the last two times were to women thirty years younger than himself, including Rama's mother.

    Rama should have felt SHAME about his father, and about this Pereniallist tripe. He should have taken extraordinary measures to put distance between himself and all of this Rosicrucian mysticism, as well as between himself and Ananda.  Yet, far from doing that, this supposed sedevacantist Catholic is describing him as a saint who he "learns from him every day"!  This would be like St. Augustine, after his conversion, editing a book of Manicheanism and saying "I consider Mani a saint, he taught me a lot."   No.  No no no no no.  NO.  A thousand times no.  

    And this interview gets even more shocking.  He seems to unveil himself as a Pereniallist just like daddy.

    Quote
    "I don't consider Schuon as between and above Guénon and my father. I think that Guénon, Schuon and my father expounded the Philosophia Perennis - each in their own way. None of them are without minor errors, but the errors are not important."


    Listen to him!  Do you see what he's doing here?  He's not speaking of the entire Pereniallist system of metaphysics as being contemptible, but discussing the various errors of the authors WITHIN it, as if there is a purer strain of Pereniallism, not tapped into by any of these authors, that he himself has reached!

    He acts as if Guenon and Schuon and Bert and Ernie and Phyllis Diller failed with their expositions of the "Philosophia Perennis" ( another term for Pereniallism ), when it is the Philosophia Perennis ITSELF that is a major HERESY from some kind of Renaissance gnostic Kabbala tradition.  It doesn't matter how it is "expounded" or by whom.  

    Rama -- don't let the door hit you on the way out.  I'm getting angry now and don't feel that many nice things will come out of my mouth if I keep typing, so I'm off to walk the dog.   Here is a link to the interview:

    http://www.svabhinava.org/friends/JoaquinAlbaicin/RamaCoom-English-frame.php

    HERESIES DON'T SLEEP.  BUT NEITHER DOES RAOUL76 ( imagine that being said as the voiceover to a rain-soaked film noir about an embittered, tired detective )

    P.S. Big things are being prepared, I can tell you that, and it is out of the tiny sedevacantist movement of today that I am almost positive that the unimaginably glorious Triumph of the Immaculate Heart will occur.  That is why we are under attack by the devil and his gang of charlatans and infiltrators.  
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Raoul76

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    Dr Rama Coomaraswamy...
    « Reply #33 on: August 29, 2009, 12:07:00 AM »
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  • Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline sedetrad

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    Dr Rama Coomaraswamy...
    « Reply #34 on: August 29, 2009, 08:43:03 AM »
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  • Raoul, do you think the above is a little revelation of the method?


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Dr Rama Coomaraswamy...
    « Reply #35 on: September 04, 2009, 02:00:13 AM »
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  • Interestingly enough, Fr C mentioned Dr/Fr/Bp Coomaraswamy in a very recent sermon - in fact, he did so right about the time SJB decided to join the fun around cathinfo. :scratchchin:

    Anyway, Fr C, from what I have heard (I do not have access to a computer with speakers), mentions him in a rather kindly manner.

    Well, some years ago Fr C told me, during a conversation in his office, that Coomaraswamy was a plagiarist.  Coomaraswamy's book The Problems with the New Mass was, Fr C claimed, was really, at least in the main, the work of Fr C.

    Why did Fr C mention this man, publicly and in a positive light, right as attention is being drawn to his shady past?  Toe-knee?  Come come, now.

    Why hasn't SJB answered my questions about his name, what brought him to this off-the-beaten-path site in the first place, etc?

    Why haven't I already gone to get my first cup of coffee on tonight's vampire shift? :sleep:
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Dr Rama Coomaraswamy...
    « Reply #36 on: September 04, 2009, 02:04:01 AM »
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  • Btw, Fr C is not the only one to tell me Coomaraswamy was a plagiarist.  While Fr C's penchant for lying COULD be taken as good reason to doubt his claim, the other source cannot be so easily gainsaid.  However, for the present, I shall leave his identity private.  Let us just say he is, and has long been, the REAL DEAL where writers in the world of traditional Roman Catholicism are concerned.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Dr Rama Coomaraswamy...
    « Reply #37 on: September 04, 2009, 02:42:12 AM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    So, as far as I'm concerned, if Malachi is Rama's close friend, we have a problem...


    "Well, Houston, we HAVE a problem."
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Dr Rama Coomaraswamy...
    « Reply #38 on: September 04, 2009, 02:48:50 AM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    Pinay of course is an SSPX apologist, he won't even post stuff if it's too sedevacantist in tone...


    Do you know him?  Do you know Hoffman?

    I know Mr Hoffman personally, and he is NOT a man with a "one track mind."  Neither is the man behind the Maurice Pinay blog.

    He is a rather sound-thinking sede, rather than an "SSPX apologist."  He is a good young man, dedicated to exposing the works of darkness.  Yes, he focuses on the Judaics, but he also understands their shenanigans far better than most.  When he moves to expose something, it gets exposed.  Did you ever read anything he posted while a member of FE a few years ago?  Go search the archives there.  The folder (which I will link in a moment) is FULL of evidence that indicates the contrary of your claim.

    That said, I am really glad you have returned.  I am very much enjoying your comments, Raoul.  Thank you.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Dr Rama Coomaraswamy...
    « Reply #39 on: September 04, 2009, 02:51:36 AM »
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  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    Coomaraswamy's book The Problems with the New Mass was, Fr C claimed, was really, at least in the main, the work of Fr C...


    Please scratch one of my uses of "was" above.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Dr Rama Coomaraswamy...
    « Reply #40 on: September 04, 2009, 04:22:15 AM »
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  • "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline Raoul76

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    Dr Rama Coomaraswamy...
    « Reply #41 on: September 04, 2009, 04:55:07 AM »
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  • Thanks for the compliment, Eamon.  But my name is Michael as I wrote you in an E-mail last night.  I guess I'm stuck with "Raoul," ha ha.  My mother was going to name me that and I think it's funny because I am about as little like a "Raoul" as you can imagine, being a pale spindly Polak and not having much of the swarthy Italian gigolo about me.

    Maurice Pinay didn't post one of my comments and I assumed it was because I had defended the sedevacantist position.  I'm sorry that I made assumptions that as usual turned out to be wrong.

    I would say in the case of both Hoffman and Pinay that they need to concentrate more on God and less on the devil.  I've been down that road and I know how easy it is to get consumed by wrath, to tangle yourself up trying to UNtangle all the lies.  

    Yes, picking apart Jєωιѕн lies can be a full-time job. People even on this site who are generally aware actually believe in "conservative" Jews like Henry Makow not realizing that Jews are behind the whole "truther/American patriot restore-the-Constitution" movement AS WELL AS the overtly communist side of Obama.  Alex Jones is every bit as much of a Jєωιѕн-led shill as Obama, as Hoffman knows.  

    I know how certain individual Jews often denounce their own race as a diversionary tactic to make you think that some Jews are OK, it's not ALL of them, etc. while the plans are advanced.  Whenever there is a strike on Palestine or Lebanon you'll always see Jews protesting on the street, supposed anti-Zionist Jews -- yeah right.  If you're anti-Zionist, join the Catholic Church.  It doesn't cost them anything to make a show of protest while actually getting their own way.  

    They are so subtle and insinuating with their lies that it obsesses you.  But at a certain point you have to leave this behind or it eats you up.  Pinay and Hoffman remind me of the guys who wrote the Malleus Malleficarum, wallowing in descriptions of witchery, with an unhealthy fascination with evil.  Hoffman's white-slavery stuff and the interviews with nαzιs are also barking up the wrong tree, in my opinion.  Notice how his obsession with Jews led him to the defense of nαzιs, who are just evil in a different way.  

    Rama is a plagiarist, eh?  That brings up a question.  There's a sedevacantist Catholic who plagiarized a fairly well-known book on his website, taking an entire chunk out of it and making it seem as if he wrote it.   Is that a sin?  I ignored it but it somehow makes me mistrust this person, just a little.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Elizabeth

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    Dr Rama Coomaraswamy...
    « Reply #42 on: September 04, 2009, 08:16:46 AM »
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  • Hi, I am also enjoying your thoughts on this thread, Raoul.

    Can we have a teensie hint as to whom is the plagerist?

    Also, Fr. C hinting that Coomaraswamy copied off his homework is just a hoot.

    I still am not convinced of Malachi Martin being an evil infiltrator, but I must admit this thread is affecting my opinion of old Rama Coomaraswamy's influence.  I had no idea he had a teaching position in the seminary, for example.  

     :popcorn:

    Offline Raoul76

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    Dr Rama Coomaraswamy...
    « Reply #43 on: September 05, 2009, 01:07:17 AM »
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  • Don't worry, Elizabeth, the person I'm referring to is not at all well-known.  He is someone I admire, though, and when I caught him regurgitating a chunk from someone else's book without giving her -- the female author -- any credit I thought "Hmmm."  It was just a couple paragraphs but would it have really hurt to give her the credit?

    It was very odd that I had discovered this book on the same day that he plagiarized it.  My first impulse was to pridefully write this sedevacantist and say "I'm onto you!"  But then I realized he might hold it against me.  I also realized his virtues outweigh his faults.  So I let it pass.

    Rama Coomaraswamy is one of those figures that may drive people away from sedevacantism.  If you associate the movement with him, it makes us look weird.  This may not be his fault but he didn't exactly try very hard to stop it, going on the "World of Wisdom" web site and expatiating on "Pereniallism."  Roscoe may be right in advising him posthumously to change his name, too.  Maybe Father Rama Mary would have been better -- hey, that's darn catchy!

    P.S. I'm not convinced of Malachi being an evil infiltrator either, nor am I calling Rama C. an infiltrator.  Just suggesting that infiltrators may be out there.  

    Malachi strikes me more as someone who really loves to talk and be the center of attention than a calculating infiltrator.
    He may have even done more good than harm by at least alerting the mainstream that SOMETHING is wrong in the Vatican, even if he sensationalized and mixed truth with lies.  At least he gives the general impression that not all is at it seems and from that point people can do their own individual research.  I go back and forth on Malachi but ultimately his heart is for God to judge ( isn't that generous of me? )
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Dr Rama Coomaraswamy...
    « Reply #44 on: September 05, 2009, 11:18:13 AM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    P.S. I'm not convinced of Malachi being an evil infiltrator either, nor am I calling Rama C. an infiltrator.  Just suggesting that infiltrators may be out there.


    We would be brain-dead to think otherwise.  It worked like a charm up to V2.  Do you think they would just STOP, leaving the resisters in peace?  NO WAY!!!
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."