TCW claims that M Martin dies repentant-- let's hope that is so.

I'm just trying to be cautious when I say someone "may" be an infiltrator, in the sense of "Only God can judge internal intentions."  God doesn't like it when you step on His toes, and take vengeance for Him.  The only ones authorized to investigate, root out and punish heresy are higher clergy and I'm not even lower clergy.  One has to know one's place.

My priest told me I can't call people names like "stooge," "plant," "charlatan" or "infiltrator."  The Catholic way, I've learned, is to simply state facts and let people make up their own minds.

Leaving behind Fathers Coomaraswamy and Martin, I even used to dare to make serious allegations against a figure as generally revered as Abp. Lefebvre until I realized that as a Catholic you can't do this unless you are 100% sure of your accusations -- and I'm not.  So I can only repeat the party line that he often "wavered."  I can only state that it is a fact that he got lots of publicity and TV face time while other traditionalists were cast into outer darkness.  And I can only point out that his organization the FSSPX are indirectly blaspheming the Church and keeping their people in spiritual danger with the false assertion that the VII Popes are true Popes and the VII Church is the real Church.  But can I say for SURE that this was a deliberate plot and not just unfortunate happenstance?  No -- not for sure.  

See what I'm driving at?  I can't even say that someone who was as full of contradictions as Malachi Martin was an infiltrator.  He might have, like me, simply have loved to talk and to be the center of attention.  I am trying to learn to stay silent on subjects I know nothing about ( hence I didn't respond to roscoe's query about geocentrism. )  Maybe Malachi never learned it.  

Or maybe he even acted Jesuitically, as an undercover agent, who used "faction" to give people a sense of something being amiss in Rome and to lead them on to further research.  Because I'm an idealist, the idea of telling "80% truth" struck me as ludicrous.  But the more I think about it, that IS Jesuit procedure, in the early days of the Reformation to disguise yourself as a Protestant in order to ferret out information from them, or as a communist in Russia, etc.  And if you are in disguise, you can't tell 100% truth, because then you'd have to say you're a Catholic at which point you'd get your throat slit.

I will tell you, I read most of Windswept House long before becoming a Catholic, and threw it down with disgust, saying it was full of contradictions in portraying JPII as somehow apart from what was happening in the Church.  In some odd way, now that I think about it, the book almost uses a dialectic that could LEAD those who are disposed in that direction to the sedevacantist truth.  Except that, in my recollection, it never mentions the Novus Ordo mass but pits JPII against an economic-political nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr, which he wants his "Catholic Church" to control even as it is plagued by Satanists ( huh? ).  So for those who are inclined to see the Vatican itself as serving Mammon, this book gives them ample "proof."  Just as it inadvertently or deliberately helped me become sedevacantist, it could just as easily inadvertently or deliberately "help" someone else to become a Protestant or atheist, or reinforce the "truthers" like Jew-puppet Alex Jones who spread that old canard about the Jesuit-Vatican plot for world control ( to which I'd say hey, if it were the real Jesuits and the real Vatican we were talking about, let them have world control! )

I don't know about Malachi Martin.  If you judge him by his fruits, I'd say they are more bad than good -- more confusing than clear.  Especially compared to the fruits of someone like Patrick Henry Omlor.

In the case of Rama we have facts -- we know he never renounced his theosophist-"Pereniallist" father's work and to the end of his life promoted it and acted as if his father had wisdom to impart.  That is heresy, I'd say, unless someone disagrees with me.

P.S. Roscoe, I'd say that TCW made the claim that Malachi Martin died repentant because they use his theories about the Siri election.  If you take away Martin, whoosh, there goes the Siri thesis.  That is what I call a shaky foundation!  

This is quite odd though.  TCW defends Martin but then says that he "died repentant."  Repentant for what?  Freudian slip!  What are the sins that he needed to repent for, according to them/him?  

I did not ask Raoul about geocentrism-- I asked if he believed Earth/Sun or Sun/Earth

There are many more sources on the Siri election than M Martin. Until reading this just now, I was not aware that he even thought this. i have not read any of his work.

The Siri electin by no means goes away without M Martin.

SJB, you said you were leaving the forum. Are you a liar? Did you decide to come back after your tantrum?

Elizabeth, after writing and then deleting a long post after some mental prayer, I've decided to say no more about Malachi Martin.  Whether Mr. Martin was a good or a bad man is not germane, has nothing to do with whether the sedevacantist or SSPX or Novus Ordo position is correct.  

Disinformation surrounds his person like a cloud of flies.  This is inevitable when so many Novus Ordo figures pass in and out of his life, whose specialty is disinformation and lies-within-lies.  But if you lay down with dogs you'll get fleas, as the localism goes, and Malachi never avoided questionable figures -- quite the opposite.  It seems that everyone and their grandmother has had a mysterious encounter with this man, from the VII anti-Popes to the biggest publishers and New York socialites to Thomas Droleskey to personal acquaintances of mine at Church!

It seems it's impossible to even talk about him without getting entangled in contradictions and disinformation.  It's frustrating until you finally ask yourself, who cares about Malachi Martin?  Who is he?  What is the point of him and why is he so well-known?  He's someone who was good at getting publicity, and whose books were published by Jews, who own the publishing industry as surely as they own Hollywood, who gave him high exposure.  Good for him.  Then he doesn't need any more exposure from Raoul76.

Okay, then you had to go and post this --

Elizabeth says

25, 35 years ago he was decrying the V2 and the destruction of the Mass, the "new ceremony" by the freemason Bugnini, a creation of a one-world religion, the invalidity of the Novus Ordo mass, etc.

Actually he said the Novus Ordo mass was valid.  He never wrote about the Novus Ordo in any of his books.  You are creating a fantasy-Malachi in your head.  If I were you I'd ask myself "Why?"

Is that Jansen interview the one where he said "Sedevacantists will never see the face of God"?  Yet he attended the ordination of a sedevacantist priest and he himself supposedly ordained the self-proclaimed sedevacantist Rama Coomaraswamy, having suddenly become a bishop for the occasion...

On the Validity of My Ordination by Rama Coomaraswamy:  

"However, my close friend and mentor, Bishop Malachi Martin, stated that he wished there to be absolutely no doubt about my ordination. He therefore proceeded to conditionally re-ordain me. Hence it is that I received the graces of Ordination from a double source."

CathInfo favorite Father Cekada says that near the end of his life Malachi Martin told Rama C. that he was consecrated a bishop by, get this, PIUS XII.  So he hid his episocopal status for decades afterwards, even from the "Pope," Paul VI?

Elizabeth, plenty of proof has been given you of the almost countless contradictions of this man's behavior.  Here is one that is irrefutable:  This non-sedevacantist laicized priest near the end of his life suddenly became a bishop conditionally re-ordaining a sedevacantist.  

I know, I know, the poor man was just confused, the eternal victim...

It's also a fact that he wrote a book under the pen name Serafian called The Pilgrim where a fictional Pope obviously representing John XXIII is portrayed favorably as someone who is trying to open the ecuмenical door to the Jews.  Malachi Martin himself is of Jєωιѕн stock and attended Hebrew University in Jerusalem.  He was periti to the Jєωιѕн Cardinal Bea, friend of the most-likely Jєωιѕн Wojtyla, etc.  

These are facts, not rumors, though the rumors about what he did during Vatican II are truly horrible.  But I'll refrain from reprinting them because I have no way to know if they're true.  I'm trying to be totally objective.

Not that gladius has ever called Father Cekada a heretic.  I didn't mean to give that impression.

So, Raoul you have not answered which books (published by Jews, as if everything you eat doesn't have a Kosher symbol on it's label, as if...)of Fr. Martin's you have actually read and which interviews you have listened to.

Your description of disinformation is frankly ignorant.  Knowing people from all walks of life, being fluent in 11 languages, hearing confessions doesn't by its very nature cause problems.  What, do priests get to choose only special, nice people to try to save their souls?

I didn't ask you for more exposure, I have asked which books you have read, and which interviews, and say, what about Fr. Fiore?  He was an heretic, too?  And Fr. Alfred Kunz?

I am creating a fantasy martin in my head?   :roll-laugh1:
No, actually I am notrelying on gossip from Fr. Cekada.  

And why do you take the word of Rama Coomaraswamy about MM if you find him so dubious?  Perhaps you could find out for yourself what MM has said and written, by actually reading and listening instead of relying on what you yourself admit is disinformation?

You can't even explain why Fr. Martin is so well-known because you have not ploughed through his work.

Maybe you should ask yourself why does anyone care about Michael Hoffman and his obsession with Jews?  He offers zero love of Our lady, zero hope, faith or charity.  Decades of an obsession with Jews, instead of faithful devotion to Christ and His blessed Mother.   So now having studied Hebrew along with ten other languages is, what? :roll-laugh1: Is he also a stasi if he is fluent in German, and kgb if fluent in Russian?   Can't you see how Hoffmann plays on ignorance and prejudice?

This cooties thing would be funny if you all didn't actually take it seriously.  Do you make certain there is no Pareve mark on everything you consume, and do you know if your merchandise was sold to you by a Jew?  Is it bad to eat a bagel?

Who would you suggest should have published Fr. Martin's books, which you obviously have not read?