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Author Topic: Doubtful Validity of Sacraments Outside Tradition  (Read 24863 times)

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Offline Meg

Re: Doubtful Validity of Sacraments Outside Tradition
« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2024, 01:27:35 PM »
People may choose to come on her and still hash about the validity of Sacraments but, my original intent/question still stands. What criteria do you use in deciding to place your trust in a priest/bishop/group as to determine the validity of previously conferred Sacraments coming from the N.O. especially baptism - considering what the *DDF* as admitted, "increasing cases of invalidity"

Stubborn answered, he said he trusts the SSPX to make those determinations because of their leadership qualities. Now, should he trust them - is another question. but no one else actually said what criteria they use, and I am beginning to wonder if it is simply because they never thought to ask themselves why they trust these "investigations" and "determinations" themselves...

What right do you have judge how we determine validity of sacraments? 

Offline Meg

Re: Doubtful Validity of Sacraments Outside Tradition
« Reply #56 on: November 20, 2024, 01:46:59 PM »
"Another attack?"  :confused: "One of... them?"  :confused:  "How dare you!" :mad:

Sad... :facepalm:

God has rights, His Church has rights, Her members have rights. No member of the Church, absent the jurisdictional authority of the pope has the right to determine the validity of the Sacraments on their own. We are commanded to judge all things with the judgement of Christ (1 Cor. 2:15) but we don't judge souls - that is God's domain.

That is the entire point I am making. We are in unprecedented times, with a fake pope, no pope, antipope, bad pope, loopy pope, (whatever you like) so I am asking others what criteria do you use to determine who to trust about these "investigations"? Stubborn was the only one that answered me. Did I "judge" him? No - I thanked him for sharing - even if I disagree with his method.

If you and your priest were born and raised in Tradition, this isn't even a problem for you.

Just like my other poll/post, if you don't want to play, why drop by? You can just ignore me. This is forum, I am a member as you are, If Matthew lets me stay, I can ask questions, you can choose to answer them or not.

God bless you.

That's not actually an answer to my question, so I'll ask it again. What right do you have to judge how we determine the validity of sacraments? Who do you think you are? And...I don't have to ignore this thread. I am allowed to post on it. 


Offline Meg

Re: Doubtful Validity of Sacraments Outside Tradition
« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2024, 01:52:03 PM »
I have the same right you do - If you claim to be a believer (Catholic) as Paul is speaking about - Catholics have the rights given them by sharing in His Body to judge all things i.e., question, examine, determine, etc.

I can and should judge your way of doing things as you should mine. It is my right as a Christian, to judge your soul is never my right.


So you believe that you have some kind of authority here. Why?

Offline Meg

Re: Doubtful Validity of Sacraments Outside Tradition
« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2024, 01:57:11 PM »
I have authority over my own soul, I have no authority on an internet forum that is absurd. I am questioning others to measure their way of doing things to determine if I can learn from them. If You don't like my questions - then don't answer them. Run along now.

God bless you.

You do presume to have authority here. You have been a forum member....for what....13 days or so? And you are presuming already to tell us what we are supposed to believe, as if you have authority here. But you do not.

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Doubtful Validity of Sacraments Outside Tradition
« Reply #59 on: November 20, 2024, 02:04:20 PM »
I think +Fr. Wathen meant well and did a lot of good- May he rest in peace. I disagree with him that such changes can come from the Church.
I didn't post it, but he gets into the whole "ut. . . obtineat" vs. "obtineat" that Lad concerns himself with.


Quote
The Church cannot foist evil on Her children, She is led by Her Spouse - Christ "Her invisible Head" through His visible representative on earth the pope - who, while still only a man, has the infallible protection as promised by Christ to hold the faith, "unimpaired by any error " (Vatican I). She exists for the glory of God and salvation of souls. Neither Francis nor the conciliar church does either of those things.
Well, the Church has not foisted evil on her children, the Church has not been destroyed by heretical popes, rather, the Church remains spotless and is still here on earth welcoming all those who want to join her and live according to her rule - consider yourself for example. This is how it's been and will be for all converts and members till who knows when.

The part about "unimpaired by any error" is talking about the pope when he speaks ex cathedra.