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Author Topic: Dom Gueranger - 4th Sunday after Easter - Baptism  (Read 72 times)

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Offline Barry

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Dom Gueranger - 4th Sunday after Easter - Baptism
« on: May 18, 2025, 05:22:33 PM »
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    In his other sacraments, our Saviour would have priests alone to be the ministers: not so with baptism. Any one of the faithful, whatever may be his or her condition, may administer baptism. Nay more; an infidel can, by water and the invocation of the blessed Trinity, confer upon others the baptismal grace, which he or she does not possess, provided only that he really intends to do what Holy Church does, when she administers the sacrament of baptism.

    Nor is this all. An unbaptized man or woman may be dying, and no one near him to administer this sacrament; he is on the brink of eternity, and there is no hand nigh to pour the water of regeneration upon him; our Saviour has lovingly provided for this necessity. Let this man or woman believe in baptism; let him desire it in all the sincerity of his soul; let him entertain sentiments of compunction and love, such as are required of an adult when receiving baptism; he is baptized in desire, and heaven is open to him.



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    Offline Twice dyed

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    Re: Dom Gueranger - 4th Sunday after Easter - Baptism
    « Reply #1 on: Yesterday at 10:42:31 AM »
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    • Catholics have to realize that sometimes doctrines are written down in the objective realm. But God is God, He can act as He well pleases. Therein is my humble answer to so many "Letter of the Law" interpreters... the letter kills...
     God can and does deal with some subjectively. He moves some men/women by the Holy Spirit as He so desires. And again God's ways are not man's ways.  Did Jacinta Marto receive her first HOLY communion according to Church Law? NO!. Was Abraham baptized with water? NO!  Isaac or Jacob?, Did King Solomon have one wife? NO! God allowed him to have 800 plus wives, hundreds of concubines to show the glory and power of the king. 
    So God can do as He wants. We are even asked to plead God to change our hearts, as He did with king Saul. But crucial to remember that we then have to be faithful to the very end. Some kings didn't...
    And even St Pius X teaches about Baptism of Desire! 

    https://abbe-pivert.com/sermon-le-bapteme-de-sang-et-le-bapteme-de-lesprit-ou-de-desir/
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    Summa Theologica, 3, q. 66
    The Different Kinds of Baptism

    "...As has been said, water baptism derives its efficacy from the Passion of Christ, to which man is configured by baptism; and beyond this, as from its first cause, from the Holy Spirit. But if the effect depends on the first cause, the cause dominates its effect, and does not depend on it.

    Also, apart from water baptism, one can receive the effect of the sacrament of Christ's Passion insofar as one conforms to him by suffering for him; this is what Revelation 7:14 says: "These came out of the great tribulation, and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

    For the same reason, one can also receive the effect of baptism by the power of the Holy Spirit, not only without baptism of water, but even without baptism of blood: when the heart is moved by the Holy Spirit to believe in God and to repent of one's sin. This is why it is also called "baptism of repentance." It is of this that Isaiah speaks when he says (4:4): "When the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and has purified Jerusalem from the blood that is in the midst thereof, by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of fire."


    "...These two other baptisms are therefore called baptisms because they replace baptism. Thus St. Augustine says: “That martyrdom sometimes replaces baptism, blessed Cyprian finds a weighty argument in the unbaptized thief to whom it was said: ‘Today you will be with Me in paradise.’ “Reflecting on this more and more, I find that not only suffering for the name of Christ can make up for the lack of baptism, but also faith and conversion of heart, if lack of time prevents the celebration of the mystery of baptism.” [1]

    Clarifications of St. Thomas 1. Certainly, the Apostle says (Eph 4:5): “One faith, one baptism.” But the other two baptisms (of blood and of the Spirit) are included in the baptism of water, which derives its efficacy from the Passion of Christ. The unity of baptism is therefore not affected. 2. Only water baptism is a sacrament, because it alone is a sign. What the other two baptisms have in common with water baptism is not the reason for the sign, but the effect of baptism. Therefore, they are not sacraments.


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    La mesure de l'amour, c'est d'aimer sans mesure.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Dom Gueranger - 4th Sunday after Easter - Baptism
    « Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 02:38:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: Twice dyed on Yesterday at 10:42:31 AM
    Catholics have to realize that sometimes doctrines are written down in the objective realm. But God is God, He can act as He well pleases. Therein is my humble answer to so many "Letter of the Law" interpreters... the letter kills...
    God can and does deal with some subjectively. He moves some men/women by the Holy Spirit as He so desires. And again God's ways are not man's ways.  Did Jacinta Marto receive her first HOLY communion according to Church Law? NO!. Was Abraham baptized with water? NO!  Isaac or Jacob?, Did King Solomon have one wife? NO! God allowed him to have 800 plus wives, hundreds of concubines to show the glory and power of the king.
    So God can do as He wants. We are even asked to plead God to change our hearts, as He did with king Saul. But crucial to remember that we then have to be faithful to the very end. Some kings didn't...
    And even St Pius X teaches about Baptism of Desire!
    This is the type of reasoning / excuse V2 used - "The spirit moved through the council." 

    BTW far as the OT saints go, Christ did not make it a requirement until about 2000 years later.

    But yes, God can do as He wants, not only that, but we know that everything God does is for His own good pleasure. One thing that He said in no uncertain terms, was that He wanted everyone to be baptized with water and the Holy Ghost, and unless they do this, they they cannot enter the kingdom of God. That's what He said.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse
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