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Author Topic: Dogmatic Sedevacantism  (Read 14906 times)

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Offline Disputaciones

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Dogmatic Sedevacantism
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2012, 01:57:17 PM »
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  • Further, while you (falsely) accuse sedevacantists like myself to be "armchair theologians", how are you any different by holding that your "recognize and resist" perversion is a near-revealed truth?

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Dogmatic Sedevacantism
    « Reply #31 on: November 02, 2012, 02:00:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: Disputaciones
    I know for a fact you are definitely not a Catholic, and I don't have to be a theologian to do so.


    Your definition of Catholicism is Jansenism and extremism.

    Quote
    Among other things, you blatantly deny and reject the salvation dogma. That alone makes you a heretic.


    Absurd. I never denied the salvation Dogma.

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    know for a fact being a traditional Catholic is not putting the Mass before the Faith, as all of you do.


    Wrong again, I don't put the Mass above the Faith.

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    Oh so that there is no salvation outside the Church, or that a heretic is outside the Church and cannot be a Pope, is not a dogma then?


    I never said there is salvation outside the Church.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Dogmatic Sedevacantism
    « Reply #32 on: November 02, 2012, 02:02:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: Disputaciones
    Further, while you (falsely) accuse sedevacantists like myself to be "armchair theologians", how are you any different by holding that your "recognize and resist" perversion is a near-revealed truth?


    Do you automatically assume that everyone on this forum is a "recognize and resister"?
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline Disputaciones

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    Dogmatic Sedevacantism
    « Reply #33 on: November 02, 2012, 02:11:05 PM »
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  • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    Your definition of Catholicism is Jansenism and extremism.


    How so? Don't merely say it, prove it.

    Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    Absurd. I never denied the salvation Dogma.


    Oh no? You believe those who are invincibly ignorant can be saved as long as they live a "good life and are honest" and you also believe in salvation by implicit desire, a perversion no Saint ever taught.

    Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    Wrong again, I don't put the Mass above the Faith.


    Then why do you go to the SSPX and regard them as catholics?  

    Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    I never said there is salvation outside the Church.


    Salvation by invincible ignorance and implicit desire is to say there is salvation outside the Church.

    Offline Disputaciones

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    Dogmatic Sedevacantism
    « Reply #34 on: November 02, 2012, 02:12:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    Do you automatically assume that everyone on this forum is a "recognize and resister"?


    No, I know they aren't, but nevertheless they still believe you can still be a catholic by being such, which is wrong.

    They still believe it is a mere matter of opinion, which is dead wrong.


    Offline Matthew

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    Dogmatic Sedevacantism
    « Reply #35 on: November 02, 2012, 02:46:38 PM »
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  • Disputationes -- you are GONE.

    I don't allow schismatics on this board.  Any sedevacantist that takes a butcher knife chainsaw to the Mystical Body of Christ is NOT WELCOME HERE.

    All baptized Traditional Catholics are part of the Mystical Body of Christ, whether you like it or not.

    Cutting them off, treating them as heretics, refusing communion with them just because they disagree with you on the so-called "sede vacante dogma" is SCHISMATIC and GRAVELY SINFUL.

    Oh, and I see you're a Feeneyite as well. Feeneyites are the worst when it comes to bitterness, lack of charity, and schismatic spirit.

    Sede vacante is not a dogma. It is a prudential position, the correctness of which IS open for debate.

    It might seem odd for a long-time supporter of the SSPX to lambast Schism. But we have to remember -- true Schism IS a big deal. It's gravely sinful, and something to be studiously avoided.

    The SSPX, in cleaving to the timeless Catholic Faith and Tradition, is NOT schismatic. It's the pope, cardinals, bishops and most priests who are in schism by breaking with Catholic Tradition and trying to create a new Faith.
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    Offline Quo Vadis Petre

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    Dogmatic Sedevacantism
    « Reply #36 on: November 02, 2012, 02:59:41 PM »
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  • Not to mention calling those who believe in Baptism of desire heretics, and misrepresenting them. Not one SSPX priest says [so I hope] one is saved by invincible ignorance; what they do say is one is not damned by it. One must have supernatural faith, hope, and charity to be saved; one can receive these outside of Baptism of water (even by implicit baptism of desire), though it is extraordinary and rare. We recognize that even in this implicit desire, some beliefs must be explicit. What they are the Church has not defined, so we're free to speculate.
    "In our time more than ever before, the greatest asset of the evil-disposed is the cowardice and weakness of good men, and all the vigour of Satan's reign is due to the easy-going weakness of Catholics." -St. Pius X

    "If the Church were not divine, this

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Dogmatic Sedevacantism
    « Reply #37 on: November 02, 2012, 03:16:47 PM »
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  • Good decision to ban him, Matthew. Thank you.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline TKGS

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    Dogmatic Sedevacantism
    « Reply #38 on: November 02, 2012, 03:27:58 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Disputationes -- you are GONE.


    Some people just won't listen.

    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    Dogmatic Sedevacantism
    « Reply #39 on: November 02, 2012, 10:30:20 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Disputationes -- you are GONE.


    Deo gratias!

    His role-play as inquisitor was a bit amusing, but it started getting eerie...

    I commend him and those of similar mind to the patronage of St. Dymphna.
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

    Offline Conspiracy_Factist

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    Dogmatic Sedevacantism
    « Reply #40 on: November 02, 2012, 11:01:57 PM »
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  • I will play devil's advocate as I do agree with some of the things the banned guy said
    1. sedes believe the pope is a heretic and therefore can not be a true pope but an anti pope.
    so if you don't agree with the sede position you believe that the present "pope" is either not a heretic or is a heretic but still is pope...I don't believe any of those 2 beliefs to be following Catholic teaching on the matter.

    I disagree with his view that I'm not allowed to go to a traditional mass SSPX eventhough I believe the priest to be a heretic, as this is the only option I have to recieve the sacraments.

    I would like to read from anyone who believes it's a mortal sin to financially support a heretical priest, since now the only option to recieve the sacraments are to go to a heretical priest I don't see how I can go to the mass without financially supporting them since if everyone did the same the church wouldn't be able to continue.


    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #41 on: November 02, 2012, 11:13:10 PM »
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  • Calling every SSPX priest a "heretic" is pretty strong words, gooch.

    Heretics normally get something (thirty pieces of silver or equivalent) for their heresy -- they aren't normally such edifying, self-sacrificing model Catholics bearing great amounts of fruit and displaying such virtues (fruits of the Spirit).

    Are you saying all these Catholics of good will are going to lose their souls? How can you believe such a thing.

    Maybe the juridical state of the Pope is simply not something we (or the SSPX priests) can do anything about, and something we should not worry about.

    As long as we don't follow the Pope's erroneous opinions, we will be fine.
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    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Dogmatic Sedevacantism
    « Reply #42 on: November 02, 2012, 11:43:05 PM »
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  • Quote from: gooch
    I would like to read from anyone who believes it's a mortal sin to financially support a heretical priest, since now the only option to recieve the sacraments are to go to a heretical priest I don't see how I can go to the mass without financially supporting them since if everyone did the same the church wouldn't be able to continue.


    This is nonsense.

    Where's your proof that acknowledging Benedict XVI as true Pope is "heresy"? It may not be the correct position, but what dogmatic sedevacantists don't understand is that the sedevacantist position - just like the position of the SSPX - is nothing more than an opinion, and a theory that attempts to explain the current crisis in the Church. Our position on whether or not Benedict XVI is true Pope will not play a role in the salvation of our soul. God isn't going to ask us on Judgement Day whether we were a sede or an SSPXer. Rather, He is going to ask us "Did you keep the Faith?". That is what's important.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline Nishant

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    Dogmatic Sedevacantism
    « Reply #43 on: November 03, 2012, 12:05:49 AM »
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  • Quote from: Gooch
    "now the only option to recieve the sacraments are to go to a heretical priest"


    This is itself heretical or at the very least gravely erroneous.

    Not only what others have said, but to believe as you seem to that every Bishop and priest, even traditional, throughout the world without exception is in heresy, is itself a heresy, and an abominable one, which denies the dogma of the Church's indefectibility.

    It makes a mockery of the concept of the teaching Church and inverts the relation in which the Church taught stands with respect to them. Read Pope St.Pius X's Catechism.

    It is also plainly contrary to the First Vatican Council, which states, "It was his will that in his Church there should be shepherds and teachers until the end of time." The universal and Catholic Church as a whole cannot cease to be Apostolic, it is Bishops who can be successors to the Apostles, so she cannot cease to have at least some orthodox Bishops, who are shepherds and teachers, as you seem to believe.

    Offline SJB

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    Dogmatic Sedevacantism
    « Reply #44 on: November 03, 2012, 09:33:20 AM »
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  • Quote from: gooch
    I will play devil's advocate as I do agree with some of the things the banned guy said

    1. sedes believe the pope is a heretic and therefore can not be a true pope but an anti pope. so if you don't agree with the sede position you believe that the present "pope" is either not a heretic or is a heretic but still is pope...I don't believe any of those 2 beliefs to be following Catholic teaching on the matter.


    If you also realize these are your personal opinions, then you won't condemn others as heretics for not agreeing with you.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil