Author Topic: Dogmatic Non Una Cum position was invented by Fr Cekada to beat the competition  (Read 1787 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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The una cum argument is an error, but it is not against the faith. It is correct as far as pastoral theology is concerned.

That makes no sense.  I've been told personally many times, and have heard it from the mouths of well-known sede clerics on videos, that those who go to 'una cum' masses commit a mortal sin.  If this is an erroneous stance, (and it is, because it is not from the Church, but is invented), then such a error is also mortally sinful, since its accusations, it's scandal and its topic are of the same moral gravity.  

Offline BumphreyHogart

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That makes no sense.  I've been told personally many times, and have heard it from the mouths of well-known sede clerics on videos, that those who go to 'una cum' masses commit a mortal sin.  If this is an erroneous stance, (and it is, because it is not from the Church, but is invented), then such a error is also mortally sinful, since its accusations, it's scandal and its topic are of the same moral gravity.  

What if someone called something a mortal sin for a certain reason, but it was wrong....but nevertheless was a mortal sin for another reason?

This is the case with the "una cum" threat. It is wrong in considering it a mortal sin for an intrinsic reason, but is still correct for considering it a mortal sin for an extrinsic reason. Here is the quote that proves it:

"Since heresy, and any kind of infidelity, is a mortal sin, they also sin mortally who expose themselves to its danger, whether by their association, or by listening to preaching, or by their reading." - St. Alphonsus Liguori
"there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope" - Pope St. Pius X

Today, only Catholics holding the sedevacantist position are free from the anguish entailed by this truth.


Offline Pax Vobis

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What if someone called something a mortal sin for a certain reason, but it was wrong....but nevertheless was a mortal sin for another reason?

This is the case with the "una cum" threat. It is wrong in considering it a mortal sin for an intrinsic reason, but is still correct for considering it a mortal sin for an extrinsic reason. Here is the quote that proves it:

"Since heresy, and any kind of infidelity, is a mortal sin, they also sin mortally who expose themselves to its danger, whether by their association, or by listening to preaching, or by their reading." - St. Alphonsus Liguori
Why don't you answer in plain english?  The above answer rivals a Wessex riddle.  If one attends an 'una cum' mass, is it a mortal sin?  Y/N?  If so, why?  Show me from canon law, from a papal pronouncement or even from one of your much-beloved randomized saint quotes which usually are taken out of context.

Offline BumphreyHogart

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Why don't you answer in plain english?  The above answer rivals a Wessex riddle.  If one attends an 'una cum' mass, is it a mortal sin?  Y/N?  If so, why?  Show me from canon law, from a papal pronouncement or even from one of your much-beloved randomized saint quotes which usually are taken out of context.
It's not a riddle just because you don't understand it. Perhaps because you don`t know what "intrinsic" means. Lack of vocabulary or reading comprehension on the part of the reader does not a riddle make.
"there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope" - Pope St. Pius X

Today, only Catholics holding the sedevacantist position are free from the anguish entailed by this truth.

Offline Pax Vobis

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If one attends an 'una cum' mass, is it a mortal sin?  Y/N?  If so, why?  Show me from canon law, from a papal pronouncement, etc.


Offline White Wolf

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"Fr. Cekada, who invented the "can't mention the Pope during Mass" ...
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2017, 02:25:34 AM »
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  •  line of thinking, is a flawed, self-serving priest."  :facepalm:

    Really?

    Have you read "Work of Human Hands"?  Fr Cekada makes Archbishop Lefebvre look like a third grade Catechism student at times.

    Most Traditional Catholics are clueless about the nuances of terms like "validity", "positive doubt". Probable doubt", and etc.

    Most SSPX'rs form their opinion based on what came out of the mouths of their heros: Pius X, Pius XII, Archbishop Lefebvre, etc.

    I would be willing to bet that if it would have been Pius XII that added St Joseph to the canon, SSPX'rs would be jumping for joy.  :jumping2:

    But because it was "Good Pope John"...  :really-mad2:

    Now, I'm not saying Fr Cekada and his chapel don't have problems like Boston KY and elsewhere, but I would be very hesitant to lambaste any priest because of his theological position...

    The work of Tradition has come a long way since 1973... even the Archbishop changed his position many times, and came to a deeper understanding of many things post 1985, the last years of his life.

    Too bad the SSPX priests kept repeating the things he said early on, and adhering to decisions as though they were pronouncements of the magisterium, rather than being just a tad more open minded, and doing research.

    Oftentimes we need to pray to the Holy Ghost for enlightenment and objectivity, and check our emotions and experiences at the door.

    Fr Wickens said we can disagree without being disagreeable. 

    Michael Matt said that if Trads were asked to make a firing squad, they would form a circle.  :P
    Our Lady of Fatima Pray for us you are our only hope!

    Offline congaudeant

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    "Work of Human Hands"
    I watched the multi-part videos that Fr. Cekada put on Youtube, but have yet to read this book. Would you say it is a must read?
    Congaudeant Catholici

    Offline Stubborn

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    I watched the multi-part videos that Fr. Cekada put on Youtube, but have yet to read this book. Would you say it is a must read?
    I've never read it either but I'd like to know how it compares to what certainly is a must read, The Great Sacrilege.
    Do not be afraid to abandon yourself unreservedly to His loving Providence, for a child cannot perish in the arms of a Father Who is omnipotent.

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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    .edit.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Bumphrey,
    Why can't you answer my question?  I'm not trying to trick you; it's very simple.

    If one attends an 'una cum' mass, is it a mortal sin?  Y/N?  If so, why?  Show me from canon law, from a papal pronouncement, etc.

    You seem to imply that those priests who say an 'una cum' mass are not intrinsically wrong but it is wrong based on circumstances.  What circumstances are those?  Just the fact that they mention the pope's name, therefore they are praying 'in union' with him (and his errors)?  Look, i know the argument.  What I want to know is - show me where the Church has ever taught this, based on the una cum prayer ALONE.


    Offline BumphreyHogart

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    Bumphrey,
    Why can't you answer my question?  I'm not trying to trick you; it's very simple.

    If one attends an 'una cum' mass, is it a mortal sin?  Y/N?  If so, why?  Show me from canon law, from a papal pronouncement, etc.

    You seem to imply that those priests who say an 'una cum' mass are not intrinsically wrong but it is wrong based on circumstances.  What circumstances are those?  Just the fact that they mention the pope's name, therefore they are praying 'in union' with him (and his errors)?  Look, i know the argument.  What I want to know is - show me where the Church has ever taught this, based on the una cum prayer ALONE.


    Actually, I have answered you, but you didn't understand it.

    I said it was not intrinsically evil. Let me clarify.

    Let me give you an analogy in normal times about the meaning of that. It means that something is likely an occasion of sin to the average person, so, in general, it is forbidden as a mortal sin, because to knowingly put oneself in a circumstance of near occasion of sin, is itself a mortal sin even if the person ends up not sinning mortally....because he willfully took a chance of sinning grievously.

    But there could be individuals to whom it is not a near occasion of sin. Catholics are not good judges of whether it is or not, so it should be a confessor, or higher Church authority to decide. For instance, a Catholic, by canon law, would be excommunicated for even having an heretical book on his bookshelf. However, permission or dispensation could be given in a case of necessity to a learned Catholic to be able to read such a book.

    Basically that is what a "dispensation" is. It is a circumstance that is dangerous to the average person, and so forbidden to all, UNLESS a special permission is given based on evaluating the person and circumstance.

    So, to apply this again...it is a near occasion of sin for the average person to attend an R&R Mass because of the magnetic danger of being attracted to whatever the priest is associated with.
    "there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope" - Pope St. Pius X

    Today, only Catholics holding the sedevacantist position are free from the anguish entailed by this truth.


     

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