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Author Topic: Dogmatic Non Una cuм position was invented by Fr Cekada to beat the competition  (Read 3279 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Dogmatic Non Una cuм position was invented by Fr Cekada to beat the competition
« on: May 15, 2017, 08:46:50 AM »
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    • I can't believe so many people fall for this nonsense. "Non una cuм" was unheard of back in the early days of the Traditional Movement. And even to this day, the majority of Sedevacantists are happy to attend a Tridentine Mass at a non-indult location, such as an SSPX chapel. These sedevacantists are the successors of those early 1970's Trads, who practiced a purer, less complicated form of Traditional Catholicism. These sedevacantists are those who haven't been influenced (in person, or by reading docuмents) by Fr. Cekada.

    Remember the 3 points of What It Means to be a Traditional Catholic?
    1. Leave the Conciliar Church/Novus Ordo completely behind (regardless of whether or not you have an alternative!)
    2. Seek out true priests and 100% sure sacraments/Mass (Tridentine Mass, and a valid priest/bishop who will offer that Mass)
    3. Without seeking any permission from Rome, since permission is not required to keep the Faith.

    What about the status of the Pope? What about the part of the Canon where the priest has to mention the pope's name? What about the Missale version? What about the different groups and Trad personalities? What about politics? None of these things were an issue back then. Any of that is an ACCRETION or add-on to the core tenets of the Traditional Movement.

    If you think that God is going to blame you for attending a Mass where the putative Pope (the Pope recognized by the whole world) is mentioned in the Canon, then you need to learn more about God and the history of the Church. Pay attention to the chapter on St. Vincent Ferrer. Also the part about how God doesn't waste prayers. If you pray for a person who went to hell, those prayers will benefit another soul. Unless you are explicitly promoting and approving of Pope Francis's modernism and/or sins, you are not going to be the least bit guilty. By attending a Traditional Catholic chapel, you are sufficiently separating yourself from the modernism and destruction of Faith. By doing so, you declare you want no part of the new religion. P.S. Fr. Cekada, who invented the "can't mention the Pope during Mass" line of thinking, is a flawed, self-serving priest. He is not infallible and he never had a hotline to God. He invented the "non una cuм" position to remove the competition, so he would be his parishioners' only choice. In Cincinnati, OH (where he is based) there are quite a few Trad chapels within a 1/2 hour drive. So it's all very HUMAN. He's not impartially promoting the truth. More like promoting himself.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Dogmatic Non Una cuм position was invented by Fr Cekada to beat the competition
    « Reply #1 on: May 15, 2017, 08:59:27 AM »
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    • I agree with this 1000%!  The "una cuм" argument is as much a novelty as Vatican 2!  It has no basis in catholic history nor does it have any theological precedent.  The devil has used it for more division and turmoil.  Those sedes who believe in this logic, need to find a legitimate, traditional priest and GO TO MASS.  Quit complicating it by creating your own rules.
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Dogmatic Non Una cuм position was invented by Fr Cekada to beat the competition
    « Reply #2 on: May 15, 2017, 06:28:23 PM »
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    • AMEN!
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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: Dogmatic Non Una cuм position was invented by Fr Cekada to beat the competition
    « Reply #3 on: May 15, 2017, 06:52:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on May 15, 2017, 08:59:27 AM
    I agree with this 1000%!  The "una cuм" argument is as much a novelty as Vatican 2!  It has no basis in catholic history nor does it have any theological precedent.  The devil has used it for more division and turmoil.  Those sedes who believe in this logic, need to find a legitimate, traditional priest and GO TO MASS.  Quit complicating it by creating your own rules.
    It borders on schism. It's basically saying only the sedevacantists/Dolan-Sanborn crowd are the real church and everyone else is not. 
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Dogmatic Non Una cuм position was invented by Fr Cekada to beat the competition
    « Reply #4 on: May 16, 2017, 04:35:09 AM »
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    • "This famous Una cuм of the sedevacantists...ridiculous! ridiculous .... it’s ridiculous, it's ridiculous. In fact it is not at all the meaning of the prayer "- Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, retreat at St-Michel en Brenne, April 1st, 1989
    Source
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Dogmatic Non Una cuм position was invented by Fr Cekada to beat the competition
    « Reply #5 on: May 16, 2017, 06:56:47 AM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on May 15, 2017, 08:46:50 AM
    Fr. Cekada, who invented the "can't mention the Pope during Mass" line of thinking, is a flawed, self-serving priest.  He invented the "non una cuм" position to remove the competition, so he would be his parishioners' only choice.
    I see this a lot among former SSPX priest, they invent their own business niche. This is what Protestant ministers are all about. They have to create a an attraction to their business or they can't be minsters. The SSPX does/did the same thing by their resistance position versus the "evil sedevacantes empire". The SSPX resistance position is a false opposition that actually serves the Vatican II church. Compare the SSPX, The Remnant, and Fr. Gruner "resistance" position to the resitance postion of Fr. Wathen or Atila Guimaraes and you will see that the SSPX is  a controlled, false opposition.
    NEVERTHELESS, I highlight your numbers 1,2,3, for their position has no effect on my going to their mass if I have no other choice. My number one reason for going to mass anywhere is a valid priest.

    Quote
    Remember the 3 points of What It Means to be a Traditional Catholic?
    1. Leave the Conciliar Church/Novus Ordo completely behind (regardless of whether or not you have an alternative!)
    2. Seek out true priests and 100% sure sacraments/Mass (Tridentine Mass, and a valid priest/bishop who will offer that Mass)
    3. Without seeking any permission from Rome, since permission is not required to keep the Faith.
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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Dogmatic Non Una cuм position was invented by Fr Cekada to beat the competition
    « Reply #6 on: May 16, 2017, 07:07:51 AM »
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    • correction:

    NEVERTHELESS, I highlight your numbers 1,2,3, for their the SSPX position has no effect on my going to their mass if I have no other choice. My number one reason for going to mass anywhere is a valid priest.

    P.S. - excellent OP., I agree 100%
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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Dogmatic Non Una cuм position was invented by Fr Cekada to beat the competition
    « Reply #7 on: May 18, 2017, 05:55:46 AM »
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    • Even the dogmatic sedevacantist Dimond Brothers reject the "una cuм" nonsense.  They've actually done a significant amount of research on what that phrase means and what uttering it entails.
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    Offline katholikos

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    Re: Dogmatic Non Una cuм position was invented by Fr Cekada to beat the competition
    « Reply #8 on: May 19, 2017, 06:21:12 AM »
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    • I really do not want to get into a debate on this issue, and I myself am not entirely convinced of one side or the other, but I do want to say something concerning the claim being made here that Fr. Cekada "invented" the una cuм issue. That is simply not true.

    I think it was around 2002, long before Fr. Cekada published anything on this, that Fr. Kevin Vaillancourt released a study on this issue, and he came to the same conclusion that Fr. Cekada would come to. The exact title of the study escapes me now, but I purchased a copy of it some years ago. From what I remember about this, I believe it was Fr. Guerard des Lauriers who first brought attention to the "una cuм" issue back in the 1970s.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Dogmatic Non Una cuм position was invented by Fr Cekada to beat the competition
    « Reply #9 on: May 19, 2017, 09:12:34 AM »
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    • Sedevacantism is essentially a theory with no real, practical effect on a catholic's everyday life.  Both sedes and non-sede traditionalists must stick with tradition to save their souls.  The 'una cuм' stance was created to promote the erroneous idea that you have to 'pick the right trad mass or else'.  I'll never understand why the various trad clerics fight amongst themselves and I wouldn't want to be them on judgement day.  So scandalous!  
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    Offline Barry

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    Re: Dogmatic Non Una cuм position was invented by Fr Cekada to beat the competition
    « Reply #10 on: May 19, 2017, 09:19:31 AM »
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    • I like the list of three main points.  That is what I saw, when I was young, back in the earlier days of the Traditional movement - and we didn't even have a name that I knew of then.

    However, even though he is the most well known proponent of the "can't attend an una cuм Mass" argument, Fr. Cekada did not invent it.  I don't know about Fr. Vaillancourt's study - that alone would refute such a statement.

    I do know that Patrick Omlor wrote about it before Fr. Cekada.  That is precisely why (I have this from a source at SGG) that Fr. Cekada dedicated his article to Patrick Omlor.  Check out the top line at: http://www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/SedesUncuм.pdf

    Mr. Omlor wrote an article - I don't know the date - called "Sedavacantists and the Una cuм Problem" - see https://www.truerestoration.org/press/sedevacantists-and-the-una-cuм-problem/

    Now, I personally don't agree with this position, even though I admit I have no formal theological training.  However, it is inaccurate to say that Fr. Cekada invented it.  It is more accurate to say that he picked it up and promoted it.  Lest this become yet another traditionalist myth.

    So, in summary, I agree with the three points, but with a correction on the "invented".
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    Offline insidebaseball

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    Re: Dogmatic Non Una cuм position was invented by Fr Cekada to beat the competition
    « Reply #11 on: May 19, 2017, 10:04:34 AM »
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    • Its good to discuss these things to root out cult like thinking.   I think it would be best not to personally attack priests regarding their motives, you only sink to their level. Had some priests not personalized the arguments some years ago maybe we would be in a better place today.
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    Offline katholikos

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    Re: Dogmatic Non Una cuм position was invented by Fr Cekada to beat the competition
    « Reply #12 on: May 19, 2017, 03:58:13 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on May 19, 2017, 09:12:34 AM
    Sedevacantism is essentially a theory with no real, practical effect on a catholic's everyday life.  Both sedes and non-sede traditionalists must stick with tradition to save their souls.  The 'una cuм' stance was created to promote the erroneous idea that you have to 'pick the right trad mass or else'.  I'll never understand why the various trad clerics fight amongst themselves and I wouldn't want to be them on judgement day.  So scandalous!  
    I am not looking to debate this issue because I don't have time to spend on forums, but I just want to say that part of the traditional Catholic Faith which you agree we must practice is submission to the Pope. That is what "sticking with Tradition" entails. For this reason the question of the Pope is so serious. If your recognition of Francis as a valid Pope has no practical effect on your life, then that is the first clue that you are not following Catholic teaching on the Papacy.
    I just wanted to say this. Like I said, I don't have the time to debate. God bless you. Be well.
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    Offline katholikos

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    Re: Dogmatic Non Una cuм position was invented by Fr Cekada to beat the competition
    « Reply #13 on: May 19, 2017, 04:00:36 PM »
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    • Now I just found Fr. Vaillancourt's study at my home. It is entitled "On Being One in Faith" and draws the same conclusion Fr. Cekada drew some years later.
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    Offline BumphreyHogart

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    Re: Dogmatic Non Una cuм position was invented by Fr Cekada to beat the competition
    « Reply #14 on: May 19, 2017, 04:53:46 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on May 15, 2017, 08:59:27 AM
    I agree with this 1000%!  The "una cuм" argument is as much a novelty as Vatican 2!  It has no basis in catholic history nor does it have any theological precedent.  The devil has used it for more division and turmoil.  Those sedes who believe in this logic, need to find a legitimate, traditional priest and GO TO MASS.  Quit complicating it by creating your own rules.

    Funny you should mention 1000% and then talk about "novelty"!  How ironic. There is no such thing at 1000%, and it started to become especially popular since 1967!
    No, there are novelties that are against the faith, and others that are not. The una cuм argument is an error, but it is not against the faith. It is correct as far as pastoral theology is concerned.

    Pastoral theology demands that we separate from priests who are not doing everything in a holy way. St. Athanasius said if everything is not holy, then separate, just like he did from the Arian clergy that held one philosophical error against the teaching of the Trinity.

    The Arians had the true Mass and Sacraments, yet even if a priest wasn't known to sermonize about that one error, nevertheless, the association should be shunned completely. It's a moral obligation in the face of dangerous association with doctrinal error.
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    "there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope" - Pope St. Pius X

    Today, only Catholics holding the sedevacantist position are free from the anguish entailed by this truth.
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