Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: stevusmagnus on October 17, 2010, 08:48:25 PM
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Why or why not?
(http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/images/eucharisticministers.jpg)
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No, not anger, but very troubling.
I blame the Hierarchy for caving and allowing it.
-CITH was NOT introduced by Rome, thus another example of the sweeping about face of VII
- The smile is irreverent... she is a product/fruit of the VII pulpit
- The one receiving is not kneeling, her head is not covered, nor is her hand. And even the argument of the liberals "it used to be done" fails because even so, she is receiving in the left hand, not the right...another about face
At least the one receiving appears she may be in fact adoring the host, but that still doesn't make it ok. She will still probably take it with her right hand and place it in her mouth. Another deviation from the rubrics of the time.
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No, it doesn't anger me. It makes me deeply, deeply sad. I don't even have the words. I can count on one hand how many NO services I've been to, & some I simply walked out of as I felt that my presense signified that I somehow must agree. I'll let God judge if I missed my Sunday obligation when there was no traditional Mass to go to. I've kept far away from the NO & so has my family by the grace of God. I don't like even looking at the pictures.
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Why or why not?
(http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/images/eucharisticministers.jpg)
Steve, You keep posting the Novus Ordo stuff. This is a trad forum. We pray for these people but do any of us care about these goings on? Connect the dots, and get away from that org.
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Yes, it makes me angry, thank God. I say thank God because I passed a long period where, like Thorn above, I only got sad when I saw these abominable abuses. Now, I am getting angry again.
I like being angry more than being sad. It suits me better.
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From Emerentiana:
"Steve, You keep posting the Novus Ordo stuff. This is a trad forum. We pray for these people but do any of us care about these goings on? Connect the dots, and get away from that org."
:facepalm: Erementiana, I ragged on stevus once for this very same reason. Then I realized that there might be newbies on this forum and that something like this might get their attention or at least get them to ask a few questions.
It might also serve as a reminder for us why we do what we do to get to a traditional Mass. I only have N.O. available right now and it's making me quite radical. I've read all the arguments a couple of dozen times and I still can't decide if we have two different Churches or One Church badly in need of restoration. My common sense tells me we have two different religions. My cowardice warns me to not do anything hasty because I might be schismatic. I really detest Martin Luther and I loathe doing anything he might have done.
(Please don't post any arguments here--I've seen 'em all, trust me. I just need some further guidance, of the celestial variety. I've probably already received enough heavenly help for a normal man to make a decision, but as I said, I'm weak and cowardly and I have an annoying tendency to question everything a hundred times over. I've missed out on a lot of good things that way, too.)
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I am proud to say that I have been a Catholic since
1953, when my Mother left the Methodist religion,
the religion my family identified with since the
reformation.
I have an old family photo showing me after
being baptized as a Methodist at age two.
Three years latter, I was conditionally
baptized as a Roman Catholic with my
Mother, and younger sister.
I am proud to say that I have never
to this day received communion in the hand,
nor from a woman.
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I've always said that anger is the devil's pain killer. We should all be making reparation for this and begging mercy.
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Contrary to popular belief, anger is not a sin. It is a God given emotion. I think many of us try to artificially repress this emotion because we have been told it is sinful to merely feel it. Anger is a motor that gives us energy to eliminate the cause. We must be careful our actions to do so are not sinful (let your anger be without sin). However it is natural and right to experience anger at sacrilege and irreverence.
Experiencing sadness puts us into the frame of mind of helplessness and victimhood. Little kids are sad. Puppies are sad. Injured people are sad. Anger motivates action. I think the day we stop getting angry at pictures above is the day we are finished as a movement.
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No, the picture doesn't anger me. The N.O. believes that the act of changing the host and wine into the body and blood of Christ is only symbolic, therefore real transubstantiation doesn't take place. So, all I see in the picture is a waitress handing out cookies and kewl-aid, no problem there. Now if transubstantiation had really occurred, then yes I'd be angry.
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No, the picture doesn't anger me. The N.O. believes that the act of changing the host and wine into the body and blood of Christ is only symbolic, therefore real transubstantiation doesn't take place. So, all I see in the picture is a waitress handing out cookies and kewl-aid, no problem there. Now if transubstantiation had really occurred, then yes I'd be angry.
:applause:
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Cheryl, I couldn't have said it better myself! That explains my sadness on many different levels.
Stevus, do you have some PH.D up your sleeve that allows you to divine our anger/sadness complex? I think most of us now know about righteous anger, thank you. I'm not a victim but a soldier in a fight to the death & that makes me sad. Righteous anger I use elsewhere.
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Of course it makes me angry! My God's Person is being dishonored! I cant say (because I dont know like most of us) weather or not the priest believes in transubstiation or not or weather he's doing it validly or not, so I have to assume that Our Lord is present. That being the case, Im not going to be indifferent to the situation. I've had nothing but contempt for extraordinary ministers (the women especially) since my childhood, and I will maintain that sentiment to my dying day!
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I've always said that anger is the devil's pain killer. We should all be making reparation for this and begging mercy.
You think the innocent St.Michael committed a sin when he unleashed his anger on lucifer rebellion against God? If he did he wouldnt be Prince of the Heavenly Host right now, and would be burning in hell with lucifer right now.
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I've seen worse. Once you figure out its not Catholic, then you are not shocked anymore. It's like they took over the Catholic buildings so when you walk in you think you are in a Catholic Church because there are icons ....etc.
But you quickly realize its not a Catholic Mass. I've seen some scary things in so-called Catholic Masses.
That's when you stop drinking the cool-aid and wake up and smell the coffee.
I guess I did get really mad in the beginning, even furious. I remember coming home from some Masses in a state of shock. What really angered me the most is when we had our traditional Priest taken away (for teaching the Catholic faith) and we had this guy come in and make a total mockery of the Mass.
It can really be a shock. I still haven't really recovered from it and from the fact I have no Mass to go to. But the :devil2: is running this world and that couldn't be more obvious in these times.
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From Emerentiana:
"Steve, You keep posting the Novus Ordo stuff. This is a trad forum. We pray for these people but do any of us care about these goings on? Connect the dots, and get away from that org."
:facepalm: Erementiana, I ragged on stevus once for this very same reason. Then I realized that there might be newbies on this forum and that something like this might get their attention or at least get them to ask a few questions.
It might also serve as a reminder for us why we do what we do to get to a traditional Mass. I only have N.O. available right now and it's making me quite radical. I've read all the arguments a couple of dozen times and I still can't decide if we have two different Churches or One Church badly in need of restoration. My common sense tells me we have two different religions. My cowardice warns me to not do anything hasty because I might be schismatic. I really detest Martin Luther and I loathe doing anything he might have done.
(Please don't post any arguments here--I've seen 'em all, trust me. I just need some further guidance, of the celestial variety. I've probably already received enough heavenly help for a normal man to make a decision, but as I said, I'm weak and cowardly and I have an annoying tendency to question everything a hundred times over. I've missed out on a lot of good things that way, too.)
Emerentiana has a point. I didn't register on CathInfo for this either. The reason why I liked and do like this place is because it is more of an "advanced" forum that is past the things of the CAF level.
St. Jude makes good points too. (By the way, St. Jude, you had better get busy on my novena intentions instead of posting away here . :wink:) When you do come to a concrete conclusion, I would be very interested in hearing it.
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All of you are convinced that transubstantiation does not take place at a novus ordo Mass?
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Yes, the photo angers and nauseates me. How dare they treat Our Lord in such a manner? (if they even truly believe this is Our Lord).
How dare any layperson touch Our Lord with unconsecrated hands?
:barf:
They are apostates who encourage this mockery of Jesus Christ.
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Why or why not?
It may well be the 8th Dolor of Mary
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A great refresher I recommend reading right now for all:
http://www.dailycatholic.org/defectib.htm
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All of you are convinced that transubstantiation does not take place at a novus ordo Mass?
No, I am not convinced of this across the board. But to do such violence to Holy Communion shows that this particular group fails to understand or belive in transubstatiation.
I wonder what they think they are doing? I wish the people there would just leave...
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All of you are convinced that transubstantiation does not take place at a novus ordo Mass?
Well, there are still priests ordained under the true Rite. I haven't formed an opinion on the others yet.
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All of you are convinced that transubstantiation does not take place at a novus ordo Mass?
No, I am not convinced of this across the board. But to do such violence to Holy Communion shows that this particular group fails to understand or belive in transubstatiation.
I wonder what they think they are doing? I wish the people there would just leave...
I do not know how many Catholics there are in the USA, but if every Catholic in the novus ordo church that is quite comfortable with what this picture depicts left, I would think that would empty the novus ordo church of about 95% of its' inhabitants.
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All of you are convinced that transubstantiation does not take place at a novus ordo Mass?
Well, there are still priests ordained under the true Rite. I haven't formed an opinion on the others yet.
And they are all probably "retired" by now.
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All of you are convinced that transubstantiation does not take place at a novus ordo Mass?
Well, there are still priests ordained under the true Rite. I haven't formed an opinion on the others yet.
And they are all probably "retired" by now.
A very few still do. I think there is a priest in his 90's that does the NO at a local Oratory. Girls from the "catholic" high school next door attend. I'd have to verify he's still able.
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I won't say that it angers me, but I'm not certain that these people even know what they are doing. These are lay people and they are just going along with times. They are providing their "service." We left the NO church for so many reasons, one of which was a simple matter of Real Presence or symbolic ritual?
The people I know who like to pass out the wafers, by their own admission, are living in mortal sin. I only knew one man who took his role as "extraordinary minister" seriously--he was at confession every Saturday before he "served." I learned a long time ago that most of the people in NO are there for there own personal satisfaction. Nothing else.
I can't tell you how many times I was chastised, yes chastised, for actually asking which side of the aisle I could expect the priest to be offering the Sacrament. I was told on more than one occasion by more than one priest that I shouldn't be concerned about who was "giving me the Eucharist."
What makes me angry, really angry, is that reverent Catholics who DO believe in the Real Presence, who receive kneeling and on the tongue are ostracized and ridiculed BY THE PRIESTS along with the parishioners.
I know in my heart that there are really two churches--it doesn't take much to see it if you look. We left because we couldn't be a part of it any more. It was sorrowful.
Today, I pray often and beg God to have mercy on us all for allowing this to happen in the first place.
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Jesus wept. Sorry, I temporarily forgot about the seven angers of Mary. But do I misunderstand? Isn't the sin in the intention? So if these people really believe that is Jesus....?
Sorrowful Mother, pray for us.
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Don't be angry for God's sake, but be charitable for your own sake. It is possible that we could get to heaven and find the most despicable person we know there, and turn ourselves away rather than associate with him/her. Like the prodigal's brother, angry and stuck up, we may refuse to join the party in our righteous indignation. It is for God to make these decisions, not us. Who knows? Maybe we'll find Fr. Feeney along with a whole mess of BoD and BoB converts. Who knows?
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Why or why not?
(http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/images/eucharisticministers.jpg)
It upsets me, and I know it upsets God much more. As if a girl giving out Communion isn't bad enough, she has to smile while she's doing it, as if it's all some big joke.
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Why or why not?
(http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/images/eucharisticministers.jpg)
Steve, You keep posting the Novus Ordo stuff. This is a trad forum. We pray for these people but do any of us care about these goings on? Connect the dots, and get away from that org.
I must admit that constantly talking about the Novus Ordo can get tiring, but stevus is doing a good thing to post this stuff. He's asking people for their opinion. For recent Catholic converts, stuff like this is important.
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No, the picture doesn't anger me. The N.O. believes that the act of changing the host and wine into the body and blood of Christ is only symbolic, therefore real transubstantiation doesn't take place. So, all I see in the picture is a waitress handing out cookies and kewl-aid, no problem there. Now if transubstantiation had really occurred, then yes I'd be angry.
Some N.O. priests believe in transubstantiation, some don't. To paint them all with the same brush and say their Eucharist is invalid is unfair.
As for the picture, I find it disturbing. Why is our Lord in a popcorn bowl?
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I can't tell you how many times I was chastised, yes chastised, for actually asking which side of the aisle I could expect the priest to be offering the Sacrament. I was told on more than one occasion by more than one priest that I shouldn't be concerned about who was "giving me the Eucharist."
What makes me angry, really angry, is that reverent Catholics who DO believe in the Real Presence, who receive kneeling and on the tongue are ostracized and ridiculed BY THE PRIESTS along with the parishioners.
I also try to stay in the aisle where the priest is. We have an EMHC in our church who plays priest in the other aisle (yep, a woman) who imitates the priest's blessing when certain people come up for Communion.
I receive kneeling, on the tongue, and veiled in my N.O. parish, and no one ridicules me. In fact, a couple of people have come up to me to tell me they were happy to see me wearing it; it reminded them of their childhood and young adulthood.
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Why is our Lord in a popcorn bowl?
[/b]
Is this one of your valid "Eucharistic Celebrations"?
I often do think that it will go better in the end if Our Lord isn't there, because the punishment that has added up for fifty plus years of abuse, sacrilege and blasphemy is mind boggling.
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No, the picture doesn't anger me. The N.O. believes that the act of changing the host and wine into the body and blood of Christ is only symbolic, therefore real transubstantiation doesn't take place. So, all I see in the picture is a waitress handing out cookies and kewl-aid, no problem there. Now if transubstantiation had really occurred, then yes I'd be angry.
Some N.O. priests believe in transubstantiation, some don't. To paint them all with the same brush and say their Eucharist is invalid is unfair.
What's unfair in no paten. If transubstantiation has taken place, how many pieces of Our Blessed Lord's body are being trampled underfoot, stuck on people's clothing and run through the washing machine, etc.? What's also unfair, is anyone but a validly ordained priest touching the Body of Our Blessed Lord. :sad:
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.... a couple of people have come up to me to tell me they were happy to see me wearing it; it reminded them of their childhood and young adulthood.
I can't find the one that goes like this:
Blesssed are the nostalgic for they shall see the kingdom of God.
:smirk:
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Some N.O. priests believe in transubstantiation, some don't. To paint them all with the same brush and say their Eucharist is invalid is unfair.
It is true that some N.O. priests believe in transubstantiation, some don't.
But the invalidity of their "sacraments" is not due to unbelief.
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Wow, did I join a forum for trads or for arrogant sedevacantists?
If all of you act like this, please, by all means, ban me now.
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Wow, did I join a forum for trads or for arrogant sedevacantists?
If all of you act like this, please, by all means, ban me now.
Your signature "Even if that vicar were a devil incarnate, I must not defy him."
~ Saint Catherine of Siena, on the Pope
A note to sedes - Saint Catherine believed that an antipope was the true Pope, and she is in heaven. Something to think about.
I would have to agree if, the VII popes were the vicar of Christ, but the sede position believe they are not popes of any kind.
BTW, sedevacantist are traditional Catholics, ask Matthew.
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Wow, did I join a forum for trads or for arrogant sedevacantists?
If all of you act like this, please, by all means, ban me now.
The owner of the forum is SSPX. I am a Sedevacantist and if defending the Sanctity of the Body of my Blessed Lord makes me arrogant, then so be it. :incense:
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Wow, did I join a forum for trads or for arrogant sedevacantists?
If all of you act like this, please, by all means, ban me now.
Look, I don't want to be critical of you personally. But I'm not quite sure what you mean by this statement. Being a traditional Catholic is not about ritual and the Mass in Latin. It's about a world view, and attitude, if you will. That world view doesn't make any one of us "arrogant".
Our family left the NO church because it is an empty shell and full of abuses. Females, like the ones in the photo above, are just a symptom of the problem. Speaking for myself, I don't consider myself a traditional Catholic because I kneel at communion, receive the Sacrament on my tongue, and wear a veil. Anybody with nerve can do that. It means very little really.
There are MANY obvious problems with the Modern Catholic Church. There are many not-so-obvious problems as well.
Although I am not a sede, I completely understand how one can hold that position. While some are adamant about this position, I certainly don't find sede's as a whole "arrogant."
The Catholic Church is in a crisis. I'm trying to work it all out, as I think many really sincere people are.
If the discussions here offend you because most of us find the NO repulsive, or because some question the validity of the Mass and the priests there, perhaps you may find another site more suitable to your sensibilities.
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Wow, did I join a forum for trads or for arrogant sedevacantists?
If all of you act like this, please, by all means, ban me now.
Hello, welcome to the forum. I am Matthew, the only moderator on this forum (unless you count my wife, whose handle is MaterDominici)
There are a few "fervent" (to put it nicely) sedevacantists here, but they tend to come and go. They have to follow CathInfo's rules like everyone else. If you catch any one of them violating the rules, you are free to let me know so I can deal with it.
Also, if one or two members annoy you, you can A) remove their posts from your view and B) vote against their popularity by clicking the "Hide" button on any of their posts. There is a count at the bottom of every post "Ignored by: #"
Those who can't get along with others and who are generally harsh, rude, bitter, etc. DESERVE to have 10 or 12 ignores, so people can see that they aren't mainstream members, but are only kept around for "spice" to keep the forum interesting.
Please note that you're in the Sedes' favorite lair -- the Crisis subforum. The only place where Sede rhetoric is allowed. If you're one of those who would rather not hear such rhetoric, you only need to avoid this one sub-forum -- in all the other sub-fora talk of Sedevacantism is off-limits, according to the rules. And let me tell you -- there are PLENTY of posts in those other sections. This forum gets a lot of activity.
The fact of the matter is that I provide traditional Catholics a venue to discuss and even argue vehemently over issues that affect the Church and the world today. A small forum dedicated to one specific group wouldn't be as useful -- who would you talk to, and what would you discuss if everyone was a carbon copy of each other? It would also be as boring as watching grass grow. No thanks.
God bless,
Matthew
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Welcome to Pax et Bonum! I have been a traditional misfit in liberal N.O. parishes most of my life. Currently I attend the most conservative N.O. parish I've ever so much as visited, and frequently attend a Motu TLM. I believe Benedict XVI is the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church, and believe myself to be a Communicant of the Roman Catholic Church, as fully in terms of the True Church as one can possibly be, and certainly don't think I'm going to hell BECAUSE of being where the Apostolic chain IS unless God is playing the rotating cups game with us!!
To the point of the thread, the picture ANGERS the TOTAL HELL out of this N.O.er!!! Why? Where should I start? The unconsecrated hands touching my Lord! The person being female administering the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of my Precious Lord! The person being attired in street clothes administering the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of my Precious Lord! The smile on the face of the person administering the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of my Precious Lord, rather than somber seriousness!! The lack of a paten to protect stray particles that are the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of my Precious Lord! The fact that the recipient, though perhaps the most respectful in the picture, is not showing more reverence by receiving the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of my Precious Lord kneeling, on the tongue, with her head veiled!
I'm still going. What ANGERS me more than what meets the eye is the perverted dimented culture spewed from VII making this possible! I would venture to suspect that rather than uncaring callousness on the part of the 2 girls, they may as likely be as Catholic as they know how to be! They are more likely where they are because the unshakeable ROCK convened for the primary purpose of shaking during the DUMBEST choice of a time to do so possible, at least arguably the most turbulent decade in 150 years! That is WHY these may be well intentioned young ladies who don't know any better! And the FACT that there is plausibly a valid reason well intentioned Catholics would not know better ANGERS me the most!
What is this talk of determining which side the Priest is going to be on. Anytime that I've been in such a predicament over the past several years (I try EARNESTLY not to find myself visiting such a parish anymore) social graces are of ABSOLUTELY NO CONCERN to me! I'll walk all the way around the Church to get in the line with the Priest; I'll cross to the "wrong" side of the aisle; I'll receive from the Priest and may say "excuse me" if I feel like it for any lack of "social grace" or "politeness."
Far too many N.O. parishes are as depicted in the photo! But NOT ALL of them! And for the snide comment about "Eucharistic Celebration," my N.O. parish DOES NOT use that terminology, and does not conduct itself as depicted in the photo! The liberal boomers (children of the 1960s told their way is ok by VII) are the ones who stand out for their trademark REFUSAL TO CONFORM and receive kneeling on the tongue as the rest of the parish.
I'm not saying anyone else here is not truly Catholic. But the N.O. Church is truly Catholic, as well, and, THUS, the CRISIS!! I must agree that in most examples it is AS two religions. But in reality I do not believe that. I respect those on here as I infer have reasoned out that it is a different religion, that transubstantiation does not occur there, that Benedict XVI is not the Pope. I wish I could believe that, I'm not saying this is the reason of those who do believe that way, but had I been introduced to your view 15 - 20 yrs ago, that would have been something of an easy route for me to say their "pope" is not really the Pope, their "Eucharist" is not the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of my Precious Savior, etc. I say this not to anger you all, but please indulge me and pray about this and search your soul ONCE MORE to make sure you're where you are for the right reasons.
I found some the comments directed to Pax et Bonum uncharitable and lacking in instructive value. This isn't the place to get all Church "Militant" against one reaching out to bring tradition into his life. The place to get Church "Militant" is in the pews of the liberal modernist N.O. Churches!
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No, because if it's prot...it's prot...and I don't care what they do
And if it's the NO....it's prot...and I don't care what they do....it does not apply to me.
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No, because if it's prot...it's prot...and I don't care what they do
And if it's the NO....it's prot...and I don't care what they do....it does not apply to me.
The N.O. is an atrosity, but I respectfully disagree that it is protestant. But even assuming that perspective is correct, do you not believe the circuŠ¼stances of the takeover was such as to confuse even innocent faithful Catholics such that there are 2nd and 3rd generations there now who wholeheartedly intend to be Catholic who are in the only "Catholic" Church they can practically be expected to know. Well, I am fairly well educated and well traveled, and VERY interested in tradition since my teenage years, and I knew NO OTHER OPTIONS than N.O. Catholicism until I stumble upon the SSPX website a few years ago researching a particular Catholic position! I had had long since had MANY arguments with my father, had frequently told him that I was more Catgolic than the Catholic Church during our arguments over my disillusionment with the "Mass," etc., and had finally worked past ALONE--BY MYSELF--the idea of leaving the Church. Had I done that, I would probably be lost as a Methodist or Lutheran or something today--I'm most pleased that I remained Catholic--especially now that I have found tradition and there is a move toward tradition emanating from Rome!
I am so sore on this point because I knew only the N.O. myself so many years. And I always fought for Catholic points against protestants and strived as best I knew to be Catholic and felt a strong yearning for tradition. I believe I was enduring a BASTARDIZED irreverent protestant-appeasing version of the One True Church, but HAVE NEVER been a protestant!!!!!!
I have mixed emotions upon learning over the past few months reviewing trad forums, etc., that the number of people who share my sentiments probably number in the millions, as opposed to a few (less than 10) thousand as I perceived during my struggles with Faith during the 1990s. On one hand I am most appreciative for having found this community of trad Catholics. On the other, I am PISSED OFF regarding the lack of unity and publicity and to think that I struggled so very long (not that I don't accept some of the fault myself) feeling like a FREAK, perceiving myself as one of perhaps 3,000 or so!!!!
Scipio, I'm sorry, I know this isn't exactly what you're saying, but it came close enough to the "to hell with NOers" sentiment, to cause this venting. Again, I apologize as I realize this is not exactly what you are saying and is hopefully not your sentiments. But this seemed an appropriate juncture for me to get this off my chest! Throughout my period of struggle, I was not aware of the SSPX, Sede groups (to which I may well have turned at that time), and decided to remain in the only Catholic Church I knew, all the while yearning for tradition! To think that any traditional Catholic would deem it ok for me or any other soul of my disposition so situated to go to go to hell (as that is the implication of thinking the NO is protestant) without so much as a lifeline (publicity, tables in college student centers, etc.) seems most uncharitable and utterly unacceptable!
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It makes me sad, but not angry. I generally think that those girls, and others like them, don't really know what they are doing.
I know that when I was younger, and used to go to the New Mass with my family, and all of that stuff was going on, I didn't know any better.
I figure when I see things like this, that it is caused by a form of mass-insanity brought about by near universal brainwashing from birth, and that many such things are not done in malice but in ignorance.
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It makes me sad, but not angry. I generally think that those girls, and others like them, don't really know what they are doing.
I know that when I was younger, and used to go to the New Mass with my family, and all of that stuff was going on, I didn't know any better.
I figure when I see things like this, that it is caused by a form of mass-insanity brought about by near universal brainwashing from birth, and that many such things are not done in malice but in ignorance.
Matto,
I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying regarding the likely disposition of the girls--they probably don't know anybetter. In any event the irreverance both saddens and angers me. I'm not angry with the girls. I am angry at the root of the N.O. culture being such that it is likely, or even possible, that the girls don't know better.
Your being brought up in the N.O. and not knowing any better is similar to my background. I started reading my parents old Catechisms at an early age and realized there was a much prefereable traditional past of the Catholic Church, but still lacked the maturity, at first, to realize the full extent of just how bad things were--things that I had been taught in Catholic elementary school as being right.
Everybody,
That is why I am so bent on traditionalist confronting the N.O.--not just the Genrerals of both sides conferencing in Rome, but the troops going into N.O. masses and doing everything that is technically acceptable (receive communion only from the priest, kneeling, and on the tongue; kneeling in prayer during glad handing; say Holy Ghost; refuse to say the protestant add-on the Lord's Prayer--attend N.O. picnics and festivals in t-shirts with traditional images captioned with "It's a Catholic Thing--You Wouldn't Understand. If one or two do these sorts of things, not that there is anything wrong with it, but they'll look like nut-jobs. But teaming together several would make a bold confrontational statement.
A less directly confrontational option would be to much better publicize the traditionalist positions and options than currently done. I think there are innocent souls in the N.O. who sincerely believe they are living the fullest possible Catholic life who need some sort of introduction to tradition. Had I not had my parents old Catechisms, I would have known absolutely nothing about tradition and would not even have had a hint that fullness was lacking.
It angers me that the N.O. culture is such that innocent people are largely deprived of the fullness of tradition. But the traditionalist who are only worried about "me and mine" also anger me. The hints of tradition I found ON MY OWN were NO THANKS TO THE TRADITIONALISTS!!!!!
Any moonie, hare krishna, protestant heretic, etc., who wants to exercise his first amendment rights, DOES SO--in fact I had more of an awareness of the contemporary existence of those bastards than traditional Catholicism! Even the heretic recluse publisher Jack Chick gets his message out better than traditionalists.
I believe the problems with the N.O. are severe; I believe the N.O. is where the Apostolic chain is, and thus, sadly, the true home of ALL Catholics including traditionalist though many are understandably disillusioned; I believe the time is at hand for the confrontation--not playing patty cakes and having "talks"-- to set things straight. If I understand the SSPX position, y'all largely believe this, too. This is YOUR home--you can't kick a dog off his own front porch and not expect to get bit. I applaud the SSPX, but occasionally visit N.O. parishes and do some of the things I suggest!! Have your whole chapel attend the same N.O. parish on a given Sunday! If somebody put a padlock on your house and posted a sign "My New Home" while you were out, wouldn't you be so ANGRY you'd kick out a window and go on in?!?!?
I don't know whether these girls souls or endangered or not. But it seems apparent that some of the hard-liners think that is VERY LIKELY, whether for the irreverance or for being "protestant." These "protestants" did not PROTEST and break--they remained in their pews with their priests while something new was slipped in--it is WRONG to let them unknowingly perish, if you believe that to be their fate. That's not exactly my position, but I likewise believe it's wrong to leave them missing out on the full benefits of tradition.
I refuse to leave where I believe the Apostolic chain and the promises of Matthew 16:18-19 and Matthew 28:20 to be live and I simultaneously refuse subjected to the tyranny of modernists and liberals. I'm fortunate to be in an N.O. parish which makes efforts to embrace traditionalism and shield itself from the influence of the tyranny. The occasions I visit N.O. parishes (which I intend to be limited henceforth and rather seek out SSPX or Motu when traveling) I will probably more of an ass than I've previously been!