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Author Topic: Does praying with N.O./V2 caths count as praying with heretics??  (Read 4782 times)

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Offline Nadir

Re: Does praying with N.O./V2 caths count as praying with heretics??
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2022, 06:03:51 PM »
Quote from: Philothea3 on March 09, 2022, 05:42:56 PM
Not really. Are V2 docuмents considered a heretical docuмents?
 Considered by whom? It is not laymen who make such condemnations. We can have opinions but not rights to make declarations.

Doesn't it make people who believe it heretics? (religious freedom etc.)

Someone brought up judge by behaviours, well the N.O. people clearly go to N.O. with no problem too or even "communion service" and believe it's the congregation that makes the consecration happens...
You assume that all NO Mass attenders believe what you write? You are making assumptions about what they believe.
Besides because people have been poorly instructed in the Faith does not mean they are heretics.

Maybe let me ask this way, do you think it's fine to pray Rosary with, say, a protestant?
There is no reason not to say the Rosary with a protestant. In fact it is commendable, provided you do not introduce, or tolerate, novelties like the Luminous Mysteries.
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Offline josefamenendez

Re: Does praying with N.O./V2 caths count as praying with heretics??
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2022, 06:12:24 PM »
Protestants and other heretics are well aware they are NOT Catholic and don't want to be.
 Most Novus Ordo Catholics believe they are Catholics in good standing and have not rejected the Church as they understand it. In fact many cling to the NO because they believe they will spiritually perish outside what they think is the "barque of Peter" and that leaving it in its "passion" would be a detriment to their souls. The ambiguity and error of what is placed on them to try and absorb can't completely be their fault.
Yes, they have bought the lie hook line and sinker, but who can question their intentions? 
 Anyone who really understands what Vll and the Consilliar church is fully about yet still remains in it functionally, may be guilty of a form of heresy. Not sure 
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Offline Emile

  • Supporter
Re: Does praying with N.O./V2 caths count as praying with heretics??
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2022, 06:15:17 PM »
Quote from: Philothea3 on March 09, 2022, 05:42:56 PM
Not really. Are V2 docuмents considered a heretical docuмents? Doesn't it make people who believe it heretics? (religious freedom etc.) Someone brought up judge by behaviours, well the N.O. people clearly go to N.O. with no problem too or even "communion service" and believe it's the congregation that makes the consecration happens...

Maybe let me ask this way, do you think it's fine to pray Rosary with, say, a protestant?
In reply #3, DL brought up the distinction (material vs. formal heresy) that is necessary to answer your question.

Giving some examples may help: praying with your N.O. Aunt, who doesn't even know what N.O. means but is trying to be Catholic,

vs.

joining in a public Rosary procession with (Frs?) James Martin and Michael Pfleger.
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Offline Philothea3

Re: Does praying with N.O./V2 caths count as praying with heretics??
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2022, 06:38:11 PM »
Quote from: Emile on March 09, 2022, 06:15:17 PM
In reply #3, DL brought up the distinction (material vs. formal heresy) that is necessary to answer your question.

Giving some examples may help: praying with your N.O. Aunt, who doesn't even know what N.O. means but is trying to be Catholic,

vs.

joining in a public Rosary procession with (Frs?) James Martin and Michael Pfleger.
Rosary procession with (Frs?) James Martin can be a bit too much, but is it bad because he's a public scandal, vs. you just know by yourself that he's a heretic? I mean usually in a N.O./diocesan Rosary group you don't know what those people are believing. And the whole material vs. formal heresy thing brings up a whole thing with sedevacantism which is so much more complicated. 
Also someone mentioned it's even good to pray Rosary with a prot, then I guess it's actually also good to pray with (Frs?) James Martini or whoever.
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Does praying with N.O./V2 caths count as praying with heretics??
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2022, 06:38:25 PM »
Quote from: DigitalLogos on March 09, 2022, 10:27:35 AM
They have not been formally condemned as a group to be heretics, so no. The people making up the NO are at worst material heretics.

Now, if you know individuals who are formal heretics, by all means avoid praying with them.

THIS^^^^ (with one exception).  Generally speaking, those in the NO believe that they are Catholics and have not therefore professed separation from the Catholic Church.  That is what makes the NO heresy even more insidious.  It's not like, "I'm going to become Greek Orthodox."  People still profess adherence to the Catholic Church.

No, "at worst" there are many formal heretics in the Novus Ordo.  I would venture to say that 95% of them are.  By their own polls, the vast majority of them reject one or another Catholic dogma, that they know to be dogma, because the mentality of the NO is their feeling entitled to be "cafeteria" Catholics, which basically is formal heresy, since they do not accept the teaching of the Church as their formal rule of faith (THAT is what "formal heresy" means ... and has nothing to do with "sincerity").
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