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Author Topic: Does it Matter Whether Francis is Pope or Not?  (Read 543 times)

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Offline Lover of Truth

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"I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

Offline MMagdala

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Does it Matter Whether Francis is Pope or Not?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2015, 04:15:09 PM »
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  • I answered #1.  Of course it "matters."  But it's a big jump from it matters for the Church, to personal guilt for not knowing what the men in Rome are supposed to be telling us.

    Why does everyone here seem to think that Jesus Christ would be so unjust as to require us to do the work of the appointed leaders instead of the leaders themselves doing the work, telling the truth, leading authentically?

    We won't be examined at the end of our lives as to whether we took over leadership of the Church just because men in Rome failed at their jobs.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Does it Matter Whether Francis is Pope or Not?
    « Reply #2 on: November 06, 2015, 04:16:59 PM »
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  • Quote from: MMagdala
    I answered #1.  Of course it "matters."  But it's a big jump from it matters for the Church, to personal guilt for not knowing what the men in Rome are supposed to be telling us.

    Why does everyone here seem to think that Jesus Christ would be so unjust as to require us to do the work of the appointed leaders instead of the leaders themselves doing the work, telling the truth, leading authentically?

    We won't be examined at the end of our lives as to whether we took over leadership of the Church just because men in Rome failed at their jobs.


    Everyone here?
    If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent

    Offline Arvinger

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    Does it Matter Whether Francis is Pope or Not?
    « Reply #3 on: November 08, 2015, 09:41:47 AM »
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  • Of course, it does matter, but the painful truth is that in current situation it is impossible to establish the legitimacy or lack of thereof of Vatican 2 Popes with certainty of faith. All we can do is doubt their legitimacy and wait for the judgment of the Church.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Does it Matter Whether Francis is Pope or Not?
    « Reply #4 on: November 08, 2015, 11:12:49 AM »
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  • Quote from: Arvinger
    Of course, it does matter, but the painful truth is that in current situation it is impossible to establish the legitimacy or lack of thereof of Vatican 2 Popes with certainty of faith. All we can do is doubt their legitimacy and wait for the judgment of the Church.


    Which is where?  If we are talking about the "conciliar church" then exactly which one of the Modernists is going to judge one of their own as illegitimate? Perhaps there are less Modernist cardinals who will judge the even more Modernist Francis, but beyond that?
    If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent


    Offline Arvinger

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    Does it Matter Whether Francis is Pope or Not?
    « Reply #5 on: November 10, 2015, 10:14:45 AM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: Arvinger
    Of course, it does matter, but the painful truth is that in current situation it is impossible to establish the legitimacy or lack of thereof of Vatican 2 Popes with certainty of faith. All we can do is doubt their legitimacy and wait for the judgment of the Church.


    Which is where?  If we are talking about the "conciliar church" then exactly which one of the Modernists is going to judge one of their own as illegitimate? Perhaps there are less Modernist cardinals who will judge the even more Modernist Francis, but beyond that?


    This is the question to God, He can resolve this situation at any time and through His means.

    Personally I believe that the answer to your question is that there will be a material chastisement (most likely Three Days of Darkness) where most of the enemies of the Church will perish and in the restoration afterwards the Church will condemn Vatican II and probably Vatican II claimants to the Papacy. I think the crisis has reached the point where it is impossible to resolve without divine intervention - even if we somehow got an orthodox Pope, it would be next to impossible to overturn the situation where majority of hierarchy is modernist, most of the priests don't want to and don't know how to celebrate TLM and the seminaries are houses of heresy. And even if that somehow could be done, the world is so secularized and immersed in sin that the Church could not regain its deserved position in the society. In connection with lack of Consecration of Russia (will probably happen after chastisement too) and amount of sin in the world which is unparalleled in history, I think the chastisement is inevitable.

     

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