Author Topic: Vatican approves married priests in Eastern rites.  (Read 1143 times)

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Offline snowball

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Vatican approves married priests in Eastern rites.
« on: November 21, 2014, 04:41:23 PM »
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  • I'm sure it's just a matter of "when" for the Vatican to lift this "ban"
    on all its clergy.

    Tell you one thing I'm confused on. I didn't realize Massachusetts
    isn't part of the Vatican's "traditional territory".. umm, o-k.

    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2014/11/18/eastern-catholics-in-the-diaspora-overjoyed-at-vatican-decree/

    Offline Cantarella

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    Vatican approves married priests in Eastern rites.
    « Reply #1 on: November 21, 2014, 05:00:13 PM »
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  • I attend a Byzantine Eastern Rite Chapel and the priest there is married with family. Not everyone is unhappy about these news and there is more to Catholicism than the Latin Rite, although obviously if this were to extend to the Latin Rite, it would present serious problems with Tradition, since priestly celibacy has been the norm there.

    Married clergy in Catholic Eastern Rites have always been permitted and should be respected. The ban of 1929 (Cum data fuerit), had significant repercussions for the Eastern Catholics as the article states: "in the United States. Cardinal Sandri’s decree noted that soon after the law was promulgated, “an estimated 200,000 Ruthenian faithful became Orthodox”. This prohibition was actually opposed to the union of 1646, in which the Byzantines returned to communion with Rome (Rome promising not to interfere or "latinize" their rites which has sometimes been a problematic issue but this is not what this thread is about).
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


    Offline Matto

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    Vatican approves married priests in Eastern rites.
    « Reply #2 on: November 21, 2014, 05:15:52 PM »
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  • My grandmother met that Bishop Skurla and I still remember the picture taken of them together. Skurla was my grandmother's maiden name so there is a chance they are related.
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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Vatican approves married priests in Eastern rites.
    « Reply #3 on: November 21, 2014, 05:39:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: snowball
    I'm sure it's just a matter of "when" for the Vatican to lift this "ban"
    on all its clergy.

    Tell you one thing I'm confused on. I didn't realize Massachusetts
    isn't part of the Vatican's "traditional territory".. umm, o-k.

    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2014/11/18/eastern-catholics-in-the-diaspora-overjoyed-at-vatican-decree/


    Eastern Catholic married men have always been able to be priests, but only in the areas that they were dominant. Say, Ukraine or Lebanon. This is extending that to the diaspora overseas. That's all. It is for the Eastern Rite only.

    Offline Cantarella

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    Vatican approves married priests in Eastern rites.
    « Reply #4 on: November 21, 2014, 05:44:26 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    My grandmother met that Bishop Skurla and I still remember the picture taken of them together. Skurla was my grandmother's maiden name so there is a chance they are related.


    That is very interesting!
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Vatican approves married priests in Eastern rites.
    « Reply #5 on: November 21, 2014, 06:51:29 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    I attend a Byzantine Eastern Rite Chapel and the priest there is married with family. Not everyone is unhappy about these news and there is more to Catholicism than the Latin Rite, although obviously if this were to extend to the Latin Rite, it would present serious problems with Tradition, since priestly celibacy has been the norm there.

    Married clergy in Catholic Eastern Rites have always been permitted and should be respected. The ban of 1929 (Cum data fuerit), had significant repercussions for the Eastern Catholics as the article states: "in the United States. Cardinal Sandri’s decree noted that soon after the law was promulgated, “an estimated 200,000 Ruthenian faithful became Orthodox”. This prohibition was actually opposed to the union of 1646, in which the Byzantines returned to communion with Rome (Rome promising not to interfere or "latinize" their rites which has sometimes been a problematic issue but this is not what this thread is about).



    I agree with Cantarella but I'm not sure the married priesthood outside of Eastern Europe is such a great idea. My family knew an older married priest and his wife who went back to Eastern Europe about 10 years ago. We learned from them that in E. Europe they separate the seminarians who will be celibate from the married (at some point) ones. The wife to be, had to go through her own training and traditionally, daughters of priests were trained to be wives of priests. When a seminarian wanted to get married, they started looking among daughters of priests because they had the example of the parents.

    The reason for all the training was (hopefully still is) that there are penitential seasons in which priest and wife live as if they were not married. The wife of the priest told me that her way of life was closer to that of a nun and she didn't  exactly approve of the married priesthood in this country (USA) for all those reasons. The son of this couple became a married priest but the wife had no training and it was a concern for them. This priest also stated there was also easier for a married priest to make compromises than  a celibate one.

    I should also mention that a deacon or priest cannot remarry even if the wife dies and lastly, with Modernism rampant (just as much) in the Eastern Rites (in America), and without proper training, I fear it would be a disaster.
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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Vatican approves married priests in Eastern rites.
    « Reply #6 on: November 21, 2014, 07:32:38 PM »
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  • I always thought they got married, THEN went to the seminary.

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Vatican approves married priests in Eastern rites.
    « Reply #7 on: November 21, 2014, 08:14:48 PM »
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  • If I remember correctly, they have to be married before they are ordained deacons.
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Vatican approves married priests in Eastern rites.
    « Reply #8 on: November 21, 2014, 09:30:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: JezusDeKoning
    I always thought they got married, THEN went to the seminary.


    They always got married and then got ordained (not necessarily just went to the seminary).  It has never been permitted for a priest once ordained to marry (short of his being laicized).

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Vatican approves married priests in Eastern rites.
    « Reply #9 on: November 21, 2014, 09:32:23 PM »
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  • Yes, the idea was to prevent some kind of "scandal" among American Roman Rite Catholics; Americans you see had come under the influence of Protestant Puritanism and would have been "shocked" to hear of married priests.  Somehow there was no scandal issue in Europe and elsewhere.  In fact, 99% of American Catholics don't even know that the Eastern Rites exist .. think that they're Orthodox or something ... so I'm not sure where such "scandal" would arise.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Vatican approves married priests in Eastern rites.
    « Reply #10 on: November 21, 2014, 09:35:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    I...soon after the law was promulgated, “an estimated 200,000 Ruthenian faithful became Orthodox”...


    That shows you how "Catholic" these people really were, that they would leave the Church over a disagreement about disciplinary matters.

    There's long been a latent sense among some of the Eastern Rites that they feel closer to the Orthodox than to the Roman Rite.  You'll often hear Eastern Rite priests speak glowingly of the Orthodox while disparaging Roman Rite Catholics.  That has long been a problem.


    Offline Cantarella

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    Vatican approves married priests in Eastern rites.
    « Reply #11 on: November 21, 2014, 09:57:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: Cantarella
    I...soon after the law was promulgated, “an estimated 200,000 Ruthenian faithful became Orthodox”...


    That shows you how "Catholic" these people really were, that they would leave the Church over a disagreement about disciplinary matters.

    There's long been a latent sense among some of the Eastern Rites that they feel closer to the Orthodox than to the Roman Rite.  You'll often hear Eastern Rite priests speak glowingly of the Orthodox while disparaging Roman Rite Catholics.  That has long been a problem.


    Yes, there is a lot of rivalry and resentment coming from the Orthodox Church towards the "Uniates" (which is a derogative term to mean the "Orthodox who are in communion with Rome" or better yet, the Eastern Catholics). They take any opportunity of conflict with Rome to try to snatch the Uniates (Ukranian Greek Catholics, Ruthenian Byzantine, Russian Catholics, etc) back to Orthodoxy. Of course, there are many souls, who ignorant of the necessity of submission to the Pope for salvation, are easily persuaded given that the liturgies are pretty much identical and of course, there is also a strong sense of nationalism that matters.

    Everything boils down to the dogma of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus though, and the necessity of the submission to the Bishop of Rome for salvation which the Uniates believed above everything (among the many other political and economic reasons, I imagine), that caused the re-union of these churches with Rome back in XVII century, even to the expense of the risk of "latinization" to their rites. Doctrinally they are bound to believe in the same dogmas than the Latins, (after all the Catholic Church is truly universal), but they can and do differ as far as disciplinary measures such as the married clergy.  
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


     

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