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Offline rowsofvoices9

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Divine Mercy Devotion
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2013, 06:04:29 PM »
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  • FYI:  Other chaplets that can be prayed using regular rosary beads.

    1.  Chaplet of the Holy Souls

    2.  Chaplet of the Adorable Sacrament

    3.  Chaplet of the Holy Spirit

    4.  Chaplet of Saint Michael the Archangel

    5.  Chaplet of the Precious Blood

    6.  Chaplet of the Child Jesus

    7.  Chaplet of Our Lady Czestochowa

    8.  Chaplet of the Seven Sorrows of Mary

    http://www.marypages.com/DevotionalChaplets.htm
    My conscience compels me to make this disclaimer lest God judges me partly culpable for the errors and heresy promoted on this forum... For the record I support neither Sedevacantism or the SSPX.  I do not define myself as either a traditionalist or Novus


    Offline SJB

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    Divine Mercy Devotion
    « Reply #31 on: February 09, 2013, 07:41:02 AM »
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  • Quote
    Conclusion: People who dislike the Diary, devotion of the Divine Mercy, and St. Faustina do so not because it actually contains error, but because either 1) it's the “trad” thing to do, or 2) they don't like Bl. John Paul II, and if he liked her, it must be because she and her writings are heretical. Guilt by association. It's just as dishonest for a non-traditional Catholic to say that all who prefer the Tridentine Mass are schismatics based on their experience with Sedevacantists.


    It absolutely contains error, as has been shown, and the 1959 Holy Office put the diary on the Index of Forbidden Books. The later CDF who "approved" it is the same one who rehabilitated Rosinimi.


    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil


    Offline parentsfortruth

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    Divine Mercy Devotion
    « Reply #32 on: February 13, 2013, 03:01:14 PM »
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  • Quote from: rowsofvoices9
    http://www.unamsanctamcatholicam.com/spirituality/82-spirtuality/222-defense-of-divine-mercy.html

    Defense of the Divine Mercy Devotion





    There is so much trash in here, I don't even know where to begin.


     :scratchchin:

    I know!

    Let's resurrect this.


    The Angelus
    June 2010

    Questions and Answers
    by Fr. Peter R. Scott


    What are we to think of the Divine Mercy devotion?

    Many people have certainly received graces from the devotion to Divine Mercy propagated by St. Faustina, and her personal piety was certainly most exemplary. However, this does not necessarily mean that this devotion is from God. It is true that Pope John Paul II promoted this devotion, that it was through his efforts that the prohibition was lifted on April 15, 1978, and that he even introduced a feast of Divine Mercy into the Novus Ordo. However, the fact that good and pious people receive graces and that Sister Faustina was pious do not necessarily means that it is from heaven. In fact, it was not only not approved before Vatican II. It was condemned, and this despite the fact that the prayers themselves of the chaplet of Divine Mercy are orthodox.



    Condemned by the Holy Office

    There were two decrees from Rome on this question, both of the time of Pope John XXIII. The Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office, in a plenary meeting held on November 19, 1958, made the following decisions:



    The supernatural nature of the revelations made to Sister Faustina is not evident.

    No feast of Divine Mercy is to be instituted.

    It is forbidden to divulge images and writings that propagate this devotion under the form received by Sister Faustina.



    The second decree of the Holy Office was on March 6, 1959, in which the following was established:



    The diffusion of images and writings promoting the devotion to Divine Mercy under the form proposed by the same Sister Faustina was forbidden.

    The prudence of the bishops is to judge as to the removal of the aforesaid images that are already displayed for public honor.



    What was it about this devotion that prevented the Holy Office from acknowledging its divine origin? The decrees do not say, but it seems that the reason lies in the fact that there is so much emphasis on God’s mercy as to exclude His justice. Our sins and the gravity of the offense that they inflict on God is pushed aside as being of little consequence. That is why the aspect of reparation for sin is omitted or obscured.

    The true image of God’s mercy is the Sacred Heart of Jesus, pierced with a lance, crowned with thorns, dripping precious blood. The Sacred Heart calls for a devotion of reparation, as the popes have always requested. However, this is not the case with the Divine Mercy devotion. The image has no heart. It is a Sacred Heart without a heart, without reparation, without the price of our sins being clearly evident. It is this that makes the devotion very incomplete and makes us suspicious of its supernatural origin, regardless of Sister Faustina’s own good intentions and personal holiness. This absence of the need for reparation for sins is manifest in the strange promise of freedom from all the temporal punishment due to sin for those who observe the 3:00 p.m. Low Sunday devotions. How could such a devotion be more powerful and better than a plenary indulgence, applying the extraordinary treasury of the merits of the saints? How could it not require as a condition that we perform a penitential work of our own? How could it not require the detachment from even venial sin that is necessary to obtain a plenary indulgence?



    Presumption in the Writings of Sister Faustina

    The published Diary of Saint Maria Faustina Kowalski (Marian Press, Stockbridge, MA, 2007) also indicates several reasons to seriously question the supernatural origin of the more than 640 pages of voluminous and repeated apparitions and messages. The characteristic of any true mystic who has received supernatural graces is always a profound humility, sense of unworthiness, awareness and profession of the gravity of his sins. Yet this humility is strangely lacking in Sister Faustina’s diary. On October 2, 1936, for example, she states that the “Lord Jesus” spoke these words to her: “Now I know that it is not for the graces or gifts that you love me, but because My will is dearer to you than life. That is why I am uniting Myself with you so intimately as with no other creature.” (§707, p. 288). This gives every appearance of being a claim of being more united to Jesus than anybody else, even the Blessed Virgin Mary, and certainly more than all the other saints. What pride, to believe such an affirmation, let alone to assert that it came from heaven!

    In April 1938, Sister Faustina read the canonization of St. Andrew Bobola and was filled with longing and tears that her congregation might have its own saint. Then she affirms the following: “And the Lord Jesus said to me, Don’t cry. You are that saint.” (§1650, p. 583). These are words that most certainly no true saint would affirm, but rather his sinfulness and unworthiness of his congregation. This presumption in her writings is not isolated. She praises herself on several occasions through the words supposedly uttered by Jesus. Listen to this interior locution, for example: “Beloved pearl of My Heart, I see your love so pure, purer than that of the angels, and all the more so because you keep fighting. For your sake I bless the world.” (§1061, p. 400). On May 23, 1937 she describes a vision of the Holy Trinity, after which she heard a voice saying: “Tell the Superior General to count on you as the most faithful daughter in the Order” (§1130, p. 417). It is consequently hardly surprising that Sister Faustina claimed to be exempt from the Particular and General Judgments. On February 4, 1935, she already claimed to hear this voice in her soul: “From today on, do not fear God’s judgment, for you will not be judged” (§374, p. 168). Add to this the preposterous affirmation that the host three times over jumped out of the tabernacle and placed itself in her hands (§44, p. 23), so that she had to open up the tabernacle herself and place it back in there, tells the story of a presumption on God’s grace which goes beyond all reason, let alone as the action of a person supposedly favored with innumerable and repeated mystical and supernatural graces.

    It is perhaps not accidental that Pope John Paul II promoted this devotion, for it is very much in line with his encyclical Dives in Misericordia. In fact, the Paschal Mystery theology that he taught pushed aside all consideration of the gravity of sin and the need for penance, for satisfaction to divine justice, and hence of the Mass as being an expiatory sacrifice, and likewise the need to gain indulgences and to do works of penance. Since God is infinitely merciful and does not count our sins, all this is considered of no consequence. This is not the Catholic spirit. We must make reparation for our sins and for the sins of the whole world, as the Sacred Heart repeatedly asked at Paray-Le-Monial. It is the renewal of our consecration to the Sacred Heart and frequent holy hours of reparation that is going to bring about the conversion of sinners. It is in this way that we can cooperate in bringing about His Kingdom of Merciful Love, because it is the perfect recognition of the infinite holiness of the Divine Majesty and complete submission to His rightful demands. Mercy only means something when we understand the price of our Redemption.

    Fr. Peter Scott was ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre in 1988. After assignments as seminary professor, US District Superior, and Rector of Holy Cross Seminary in Goulburn, Australia,
    he is presently Headmaster of Our Lady of Mount Carmel Academy in Wilmot, Ontario, Canada.
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,

    Offline parentsfortruth

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    Divine Mercy Devotion
    « Reply #33 on: February 13, 2013, 03:10:10 PM »
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  • May 1979 Print


    Dubious Devotions


    by Reverend Mr Douglas Laudenschlager

    THE DEVIL, as we know, works night and day to turn men away from God, and certainly has no scruples about the means which he employs to this end. The weaker and more ignorant he perverts by idolatry and heresy and foul sins of impurity and intemperance. But he knows that he cannot often conquer more upright Christian souls with such vile temptations. To ensnare them, he must transform himself into an "angel of light," as St. Paul warns us (2 Cor. 11:14)” that is, he must conceal his revolting features under a more appealing exterior. He must tempt those who would less readily succuмb to flagrant vice into devious snares which have all the appearances of something noble and good. As long as he succeeds in turning souls away from God, the method matters little to him.

    This explains why the devil seeks to insinuate himself even into the sacred realm of the devotion and worship which we render to Almighty God. If he can pervert our spiritual life, he knows that he can lessen our love for God, and perhaps ultimately lead us into doctrinal error, for an intimate bond links our faith and our prayer. Among the means which he has employed in the past and continues to employ, frequently with the connivance of well-meaning but misguided persons, we discover: spurious apparitions, revelations, and messages; works of art contrary to sacred artistic tradition; and bizarre and reprehensible prayers and devotions.

    But the Church, like her divine Founder, knows the devil and his wiles; and the Church, like Our Lord Himself, has done everything possible to warn the faithful away from his snare. The Code of Canon Law contains permanent legislation governing the publication of "messages," prayers, and works of art, by which the devil so easily seduces the gullible. Furthermore, particular decrees of the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office have frequently alerted the faithful to particular things of this sort endangering their faith and devotion and deserving of condemnation. Since, however, the conciliar Church seems to have abandoned these solicitous efforts, the following summary of canonical legislation in these matters, illustrated by examples, may be of profit to many.



    Apparitions & Devotions

    General principles and legislation ”The devil has a special predilection for false "apparitions" and "revelations," for by them he occasionally succeeds in undermining the faith of immense crowds, leading them into disobedience to the Church's hierarchy, or even into schism, and distracting them from their duties of state. Archbishop Lefebvre has publicly denounced the widespread tendency of credulous Catholics of our day to run after this sort of phenomena of such doubtful supernatural origin. He has eloquently described this deviation, which draws down the ridicule of unbelievers upon the Church, as "traditionalist pentecostalism," for by it traditional Catholics, like their pentecostalist counterparts, push aside the visible Church which Our Blessed Lord instituted for the salvation of all, push aside the Mass and Sacraments which are the principal means of grace, push aside the genuine Christian life of daily duty and self-denial, only to run to the side of "visionaries" to "ooh" and "aah" along with them in a state of collective emotional excitement at supposedly divine colors and lights and voices.

    Examples-On Dec. 21, 1915 the Holy Office, while permitting prayer to "Our Lady of La Salette," forbad any and all public discussion, especially in print, of the text and interpretation of the so-called "Secret of La Salette," under penalty of suspension a divinis for priests and privation of the Sacraments for the faithful. Five years later, it published a decree (May 12, 1920) refusing approbation to the revelations of Loublonde, France (to Claire Ferehaud) and after several French publications had distorted the sense of the first decree, issued a second one (June 1920) confirming the first and giving an official French translation of it. The apparitions of "Our Lady" at Ezquioga were condemned as "completely lacking any supernatural character" on June 18, 1934, along with several books on the subject published in violation of Canon 1399. On May 11, 1960, the Holy Office enjoined the Archbishop of Avignon and the Bishops of Rodez and Montpellier to take public action against a certain Miss Jacqueline Bouche, who claimed a "supernatural mission," and to punish her followers.

    Padre Pio di Pietralcina  On May 31, 1923, the Holy Office declared that its inquiry had not led to conclusive proof in favor of the supernatural origin of certain phenomena regarding Padre Pio. A second decree, after further study, confirmed the first on July 24, 1924, and commanded the faithful to abstain completely from relations with Padre Pio by visit or letter. On May 22, 1931, a third decree confirmed all of the above, and condemned a book on the priest in question published without the necessary approbation. Finally, exasperated by the disobedience of so many, the Holy Office condemned a list of eight more books on Padre Pio on July 30, 1952. On August 6, L'Osservatore Romano explained that the lack of ecclesiastical approval of the books in question had principally motivated the decree of July, but added that "Padre Pio di Pietralcina himself has said more than once that people are writing and affirming things, even miraculous things, about him, which do not correspond to the truth". And the article concludes: "This decree should recall everyone to a greater reserve and prudence in such delicate matters."

    Such measures, of course, must not be interpreted as if they were directed "against" Padre Pio, a devout friar whose ministry as a confessor and director of souls bore great fruit. Pope Pius XII later removed them. Instead, they prove the extreme prudence of the Holy Office, and the distress with which this Sacred Congregation, like Padre Pio himself, viewed the inordinate curiosity and impatient disobedience of too many of the faithful in his regard.

    On other occasions, too, the raucous enthusiasm of a small number has delayed the Church's official recognition of certain genuine apparitions, due to the impossibility of a calm and objective inquiry such as Church law demands. All of these facts recall us once again "to a greater reserve and prudence in such delicate matters."



    Religious Art

    General principles and legislation On April 8, 1952, Pope Pius XII summarized in a brief but eloquent allocution the great services which sacred art has rendered to the faith of the Christian people. Masterpieces such as the stained glass windows of Chartres and mosaics of Rome have justly received the title of "the Bible of the people," for they translate into a simple and universal language the truths of the faith, and sometimes in a more impressive fashion than the most fervent sermons, the Pope explained. But if religious art can help, it can also harm the faith and piety of Catholics. Therefore, Canon 1385, 1, 3° requires previous ecclesiastical approbation for the printing of holy pictures by any process, with accompanying prayers or without; furthermore, Canon 1399, 12° prohibits any and all printed religious pictures "alien to the spirit and the decrees of the Church." Tradition is the best guide in this matter. The legislation of Trent, of Urban VIII, and of Benedict XIV already contained the following, and many other details on forbidden pictures.

    Examples: One may not represent the Holy Trinity in the bosom of Mary, nor as a three-headed man; nor the Holy Ghost in human form, either with or without the other two Divine Persons. Nor may one represent a Divine Person, Our Lady, or the saints in the habit of a particular religious order; nor by any other representation favor one order over another. Only canonized Saints may be depicted with a halo. On April 8,1916, the Holy Office also condemned pictures of Our Lady wearing priestly vestments.

    Further prescriptions of the Code of Canon Law restrict public veneration to the images of the Saints and Blessed only (C.1277); and order Bishops to forbid anything unusual in this domain, especially in churches (C.1279).



    Prayers & Devotions

    General principles and legislation Because of the important role of personal prayer in the supernatural life of the faithful, and of the danger of superstitious practices and even doctrinal error from the use of unacceptable devotions, the Church also regulates this matter very carefully. Thus Canon 1385, 1, 2° demands previous ecclesiastical approbation for books or any other publications containing prayers and devotions. Moreover, Canon 1399, 5° strictly forbids the printing, reading, possession, sale, translation, or distribution of any publications dealing with new devotions, even under the pretext that they are only for private use. Commentators of the Code explain that the Church normally accepts new modes of devotion to Saints and to mysteries which have always been honored. In this way, she has not hindered the introduction of the Scapular of the Passion, or the practice of the perpetual Rosary, which are new forms of traditional devotions, But the Church does habitually reject prayers and devotions which have new and unprecedented objects, such as the parts of Our Lord's body, as the examples below will illustrate.

    Examples : The Church forbids among other things, new and unusual titles to be attributed to Our Lord and the Saints. The Holy Office has explicitly forbidden: the title of "friend of the Sacred Heart" given to St. Joseph; of "Our Lady of the Sacred Heart," implying a superiority of Mary over her divine Son; and the title of "Penitent Heart of Jesus" and "Penitent Jesus," since Our Lord had no need to do penance. The Church also reproves a special and direct devotion rendered to "parts" of Our Messed Lord, and has explicitly condemned devotion to: the Holy Face; the shoulder wound of Our Lord (by decrees of 1678 and 1879—the Church has never recognized St. Bernard as the author of this peculiar devotion); His divine hands (Feb. 6, 1896); His soul (1901 and 1906); and His "Holy Head" (June 18, 1938).

    Among other things, the Holy Office has also: refused a feast in honor of the "Precious Blood of Mary"; condemned the practice "of 44 Masses," with the false promises attached, begun in a Polish monastery (March 17,1934); forbidden the publication of the promises allegedly attached to the "Fifteen Prayers of Saint Bridget," sometimes printed with titles like "The Secret of Happiness" or "Magnificent Promises," because of the extremely doubtful supernatural origin of these promises (Jan. 28, 1954); commanded the suppression of the devotion "to the Divine Mercy" as propagated after the visions of Sister Faustina Kowalska, who died in 1938 near Cracow (March 6, 1959); and condemned a prayer "for the reign of Jesus and Mary over all creatures," which suggests the subtle error that they do not already possess such a reign.

    On May 26, 1937, by express command of Pope Pius XI, the Holy Office issued a stem general decree against the multiplication and propagation "of new forms of devotion of this sort, sometimes ridiculous, and almost always vain imitations or deformations of other forms of devotion legitimately established." The docuмent points out the bad impression made upon non-Catholics but such things and severely admonishes the Bishops to exercise a strict vigilance in this matter, as demanded by Canon Law.



    Indulgences

    General principles and legislation -- The spread of devotions accompanied by incredible non-existent indulgences has also done much at certain periods to draw down upon the Church the scorn of unbelievers, Canon 1388, §1 requires previous ecclesiastical approbation for any books, booklets, pamphlets, cards, etc. mentioning the concession of indulgences. Furthermore, Canon 1399, 11° strictly forbids the printing, reading, possession, sale, translation, or distribution of all such materials, if the indulgences in question are apocryphal (that is, never really granted by any Pope) or have been proscribed or revoked by the Holy See.

    Examples : To the eternal shame of those who have invented such ludicrous things, here are just a few examples from a series of apocryphal indulgences condemned by the Sacred Congregation of Indulgences on May 26, 1898:

    1) for a prayer composed of the words of Mary as she received the body of her Son, the deliverance of fifteen souls from Purgatory.

    2) for the recitation of a certain prayer after the Elevation of the Host, an indulgence of 5676 years in honor of the number of Our Lord's wounds;

    3) for three Our Father's and three Hail Mary's in honor of the three ribs that pierced Our Lord's side as He climbed Mount Calvary . . . an indulgence of one hundred thousand years!

    One can easily understand why the bull "Officiorum" of Pope Leo XIII, from which the code condenses the Canons on this subject, contains the further prescription that false indulgences of this sort already spread about "must be withdrawn from the hands of the faithful."

    Another important decree of the Sacred Congregation of Indulgences (Aug 10, 1899) lists ten rules for discerning true from false indulgences. Here are a few excerpts: those indulgences are authentic which are contained in Hie latest edition of the "Raccolta" (Rule 1); those attached to publications or pictures printed without the necessary approval are to be considered inauthentic (4); all those of more than 100 years are revoked (5); those are false or suspect which grant plenary indulgences for short prayers (6); come from doubtful "revelations" (7), or promise the liberation of souls from Purgatory (8).

    Finally, the faithful should note that any change or interpolation made in the prayers to be recited causes the attached indulgences to cease (Canon 934, 2). Therefore, those, for example, who add lists of invocations between the decades of the Rosary, lose all the precious indulgences normally accompanying this great prayer.

    In this domain as in so many others, Holy Mother Church has amply demonstrated her solicitude for the eternal salvation of her children, warning them away from dangerous paths and patiently but sternly calling back the erring. If only all would listen to her voice, and remain faithful to sound traditions and traditional legislation in these delicate matters, how many deceptively appealing snares of the devil would be recognized for what they are and carefully avoided! Let us remember that Almighty God will judge us one day on our devotion, not on our devotions, and certainly none the more leniently if we have capriciously endangered our faith and our love of God, in disobedience to His Church, by a blameworthy enthusiasm for doubtful "apparitions" and rejected "devotions." Let us charitably remind our fellow Catholics of their duties in this regard as sons of the Church. And let us all strive by God's grace to become examples of genuine Christian devotion, faithful to the Mass and Confession and Communion, to our daily Rosary and prayers and our dairy duties, giving proof of our ardent supernatural love of God and of our neighbor.
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Divine Mercy Devotion
    « Reply #34 on: October 12, 2013, 12:18:25 PM »
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  • Several months back there was a thread about Divine Mercy of which I defended the devotion.

    I don't know if this is the thread or not because the search on this cathinfo. cuts me off after a few seconds.  I can't seem to find it.

    The point is I want to make a public apology to SBJ because last night at the CMRI Conference Father Oswalt explained what is wrong with this devotion.

    The way I understand his talk, it seems Sister Maria Faustina Kowalska was instructed in 1930 about this devotion and it was approved by the laity, but never the Church officially.  However, even the Church prayed this devotion prior to Vatican II.   However, after the Church looked at the Sister's diary, there were some questionable things there preventing the devotion to be officially approved.

    Vatican II seized the devotion and made it very very popular and it is highly prayed with Vatican II.  

    I listened attentively to his talk and although he never really said what might be wrong with the prayers themselves.  He commented on the fact that many might think, since it is prayed on the beads of a rosary, it is an easy replacement.  He mentioned there is nothing about repentance, and commented on the image, that Christ's heart was not shown, His sacred heart.  

    He said little to nothing about the Sister, and I would liked to have asked him if the sister, way outright lying, or did she really have a vision?  Factors there at the conference prevented me from asking, but I will someday ask him those questions.

    My point right now is to apologize to SBJ for seeming so confident that I was correct and he was wrong.  I still have many questions about this devotion.  
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Divine Mercy Devotion
    « Reply #35 on: October 12, 2013, 04:40:01 PM »
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  • .

    I read this thread and there are a lot of great posts here, which
    I appreciate.  Through it all, there are two points I did not see
    mentioned, which might be of use to those looking for 'answers'.


    1..   The aspect of 'presumption' refers to presumption of God's
    mercy.  In the extreme case, the sin of presumption can be a
    mortal sin.  It is due to the vice of pride that anyone would
    presume that their sins are forgiven, and that they don't need
    to confess them in the sacrament of Penance.  This is one of
    the many problems with Protestantism.  So, I thought it would
    be good to see those things all in one place instead of scattered
    around dozens of pages.  Curiously, this is closely related to the
    second item, below, inasmuch as it is another way for getting
    around our need to do penance.  There is absolutely nothing in
    the Divine Mercy 'devotion' that teaches penance or our need to
    do penance, or to submit ourselves to the sacrament of Penance.
    While asking God's mercy is a traditional practice, and is part of
    the Roman Rite and the Eastern rites as well, that is PETITION
    and SUPPLICATION, whereas the Divine Mercy 'devotion' relies
    on a kind of confidence that this mercy is ours because we claim
    it.  And presumption is a most dangerous vice.


    2..   About 20 years ago, I knew a woman who was very fond of
    this Divine Mercy devotion as well as Medjugorje.  But she did
    not care much for the Message of Fatima, and turned up her
    nose at any mention of the Third Secret, the Fatima prayers
    (the Fatima Decade Prayer is one she would not add when she
    prayed the Rosary with a group), or Sister Lucia of Fatima.  I
    asked her about this and asked what was so attractive to her
    about the Divine Mercy chaplet and such, and she told me that
    the reason was that Sister Faustina was good looking.  That was
    basically her whole foundation:  the appearance of the 'seer'.
    She said she didn't like Fatima because Sister Lucy was ugly.
    End of story.  And this experience taught me something about
    the SUPERFICIALIY of people, who could pass judgment on a
    whole topic or on a movement or on a devotion, based on the
    physical appearance of the person with whom the devotion is
    associated.  After all, when we pray the Fatima prayers, we do
    not think about the faces of the shepherd children, really.  I
    mean, they might come to mind in passing, but that is not the
    focus of the devotion.  We think about the image of Our Lady
    of Fatima, and of the message she came to tell us, mostly the
    importance of PENANCE, and the danger of us falling into hell.



    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #36 on: October 18, 2013, 12:58:41 PM »
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  • In a time where everyone who believes in Heaven believes everyone  is saved, should we not focus on Divine Justice more than Divine Mercy?

    1.  I'm okay, your okay we are all okay, God wouldn't damn nice people like us, after all he is merciful.

    2.  Immodest dress, promiscuity, breaking the 6th and 9th commandments without sorrow and repentance are things nice people can do but those nice people can also be damned.  Unless God is not just.  

    The type of "mercy" people believe in these days is a mercy that eliminates and or is contrary to the justice of God.  It is a Santa Claus mercy.  

    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #37 on: October 18, 2013, 01:04:02 PM »
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  • As far as I know, the Sunday after Easter is Low Sunday.  

    Toward the end of my NO days it seemed the NO Church treated this Sunday as being more important than Easter.  This was the height of their liturgical year.  Mercy, mercy, mercy.  What's a "Justice"?  

    Kind of like condemning abortion because of the dignity of the human to the exclusion of its being gravely offensive to God.  

    If your gonna bust out the beads, pray the Rosary.  

    Amen?
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline DominvsSabaoth

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    Divine Mercy Devotion
    « Reply #38 on: October 18, 2013, 05:41:08 PM »
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  • The divine mercy is a wonderful devotion.  Our lord is all merciful, and all just.  In the divine mercy, we admire our lords justice, as their is no true mercy without just action.  Our lord not only commands us to adore his holy body in the reception of Eucharist and attendance at benediction, our meditation on his five wounds, and reading holy scripture to grow closer to his earthly ministry and passion, but he also has infinite divine mercy.  We are fed his body which we are totally unworthy of only from his flowing mercy.  He would see us as revolting, more so than the most vile asp, but he does not, because he is merciful.
    the reason for our salvation is Christs merciful and most holy sacrifice

    Offline Nishant Xavier

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    Re: Divine Mercy Devotion
    « Reply #39 on: March 31, 2019, 05:04:42 AM »
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  • Sorry to bump an old Thread, but this needs to be discussed in light of recent events. Yes, Sede Catholic and others are absolutely correct that Divine Mercy already had many approvals and Imprimaturs long before even the 60s, e.g. well into the late 30s, the 40s and the 50s. It had already inspired millions of the Catholic Faithful in Poland, as well as elsewhere, like in the United States of America.

    See Wiki for more details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faustina_Kowalska
    Spread of the devotion[edit]
    Quote
    Before her death Faustina predicted that "there will be a war, a terrible, terrible war" and asked the nuns to pray for Poland. In 1939, a year after Faustina's death when Archbishop Jałbrzykowski noticed that her predictions about the war had taken place, he allowed public access to the Divine Mercy image which resulted in large crowds that led to the spread of the Divine Mercy devotion.[34] The Divine Mercy devotion became a source of strength and inspiration for many people in Poland. By 1941 the devotion had reached the United States and millions of copies of Divine Mercy prayer cards were printed and distributed worldwide.[33]
    Quote
    In 1942 Jałbrzykowski was arrested by the nαzιs, and Father Sopoćko and other professors went into hiding near Vilnius for about two years. During that period Sopoćko used his time to prepare for establishment of a new religious congregation based on the Divine Mercy messages reported by Faustina. After the war, Sopoćko wrote the constitution for the congregation and helped the formation of what is now the Congregation of the Sisters of the Divine Mercy.[35] By 1951, 13 years after Faustina's death, there were 150 Divine Mercy centers in Poland.[34][36]
    On 24 June 1956, Pope Pius XII blessed an Image of the Divine Mercy in Rome, the only one blessed by a Pope before the Second Vatican Council.[37] In 1955, under Pope Pius XII, the Bishop of Gorzów founded a religious order called the Congregation of the Most Holy Lord Jesus Christ, Merciful Redeemer, to spread devotion to the Divine Mercy.[38][39]Under both Pope Pius XI and Pope Pius XII, writings on devotion to the Divine Mercy were given imprimaturs by many bishops, making it an approved devotion.[40][41][42][43]Cardinals Adam Stefan Sapieha and August Hlond were among those who gave their approval.[44][45] During the papacy of Pope Pius XII, Vatican Radio broadcast several times about the Divine Mercy.[46] 

    So, what happened, why the confusion? Shouldn't everyone have continued practicing it well into the 60s? No, the Communists absolutely hated and loathed the devotion to the Merciful Jesus, as it was called (and more recently, a new miracle has been discovered that the Divine Mercy Image of the Holy Face on the original Icon is exactly the same as the Image of the Holy Face on the Shroud of Turin! Another miraculous proof of the authenticity of this very traditional devotion) and after many failed and repeated attempts, based on misinformation, false translations, and other prejudices, to get Pope Pius XII to condemn the devotion - which the Holy Father absolutely refused to do - finally, under Pope John XXIII in 1959, a temporary proscription was issued in 1959 by the Holy Office. Some 20 years later, this temporary non-infallible decision was overturned.

    Wiki: "After a failed attempt to persuade Pope Pius XII to sign a condemnation, Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani [some say it was not Ottaviani, but others - Xavier] at the Holy Office included her works on a list he submitted to the newly elected Pope John XXIII in 1959.[47][48][49][50]"

    In conclusion, The Divine Mercy devotion is an extremely powerful God-inspired devotion to make reparation, for our sins and those of the world, through the Passion of Christ, and His holy Body and Precious Blood. Some traditionalists oppose it, believing it (1) promises mercy without asking reparation and/or (2) does not require pagans and heretics to convert, beside other doubts and objections. I don't intend to answer every possible doubt, especially because that's been done by others, but a brief study will show these objections are mistaken. For e.g. on Day 8, Our Lord Jesus says, "Today bring to Me the Souls who are in the prison of Purgatory, and immerse them in the abyss of My mercy. Let the torrents of My Blood cool down their scorching flames. All these souls are greatly loved by Me. They are making retribution to My justice. It is in your power to bring them relief. Draw all the indulgences from the treasury of My Church and offer them on their behalf. Oh, if you only knew the torments they suffer, you would continually offer for them the alms of the spirit and pay off their debt to My justice."  showing He is asking precisely for reparation, and the offering of prayers, sacrifices and indulgences. 

    As to the second objection, Our Lord's original words for Day 5 were "Today bring to Me the Souls of heretics and schismatics and immerse them in the ocean of My mercy. During My bitter Passion they tore at My Body and Heart, that is, My Church. As they return to unity with the Church My wounds heal and in this way they alleviate My Passion."  Ewtn says this was changed for ecuмenical reasons, because it didn't sound nice to modern ears. Here, we see, in its original form, its a very traditional devotion. [See the excuse of EWTN, "Our Lord's original words here were "heretics and schismatics," since He spoke to Saint Faustina within the context of her times. " https://www.ewtn.com/devotionals/mercy/novena.htm ]

    Finally, St. Maria Faustina was a victim soul, who died at age 33, like Our Lord and many traditional Saints; the devotion was extremely popular in Catholic Poland even in the 40s and 50s, when it received many imprimaturs. The devotion has been helpful for Catholic Poland to this day. 
    "We wish also to make amends for the insults to which Your Vicar on earth and Your Priests are everywhere subjected [above all by schismatic sedevacantists - Nishant Xavier], for the profanation, by conscious neglect or Terrible Acts of Sacrilege, of the very Sacrament of Your Divine Love; and lastly for the Public Crimes of Nations who resist the Rights and The Teaching Authority of the Church which You have founded." - Act of Reparation to the Sacred Heart of Lord Jesus.

    Offline Nishant Xavier

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    Re: Divine Mercy Devotion
    « Reply #40 on: March 31, 2019, 05:19:53 AM »
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  • Ok, I just reread the thread, and I see some other objections were made. Sede Catholic already did a sufficient job dismantling most of them, but just to reiterate (1) there is a difference between the Divine Attributes as they are Ad Intra or Within the Divine Essence. And as they are Ad Extra, or in their manifestation outside God. This Truth is well known and accepted by all theologians. I will provide sources if someone wants. So, while it is true that the Divine Attributes are identical with the Divine Essence within God, it is also true that (2) Divine Mercy manifests God's Power (by His Justice, God gives us what we deserve - that's why we don't pray, "Lord, have Justice on us - we would then be deservedly smitten by the Wrath of God, but "Lord have Mercy on us.", because by His Mercy, God's Omnipotence more amazingly manifests itself, when God gives us even what we do not deserve, e.g. gratuitous justification and the forgiveness of our sins, perseverance in grace, or any other gratuitous gift etc) more completely than any other attribute.

    This truth SJB, an opponent of the Devotion, on page 2 himself admitted as, "The truth that God’s power is manifested more greatly in His mercy is a distinct and unrelated matter." - God's Power is manifested more in His Mercy than in any other attribute.

    And so that theological objection should be laid to rest. God desires to pour out His Mercy upon us and asks us to make reparation to receive it. The e.g. already given of the devotion for the Holy Souls on Day 8 should sufficiently prove that.

    Now, what else? ServusSpiritusSanctus' objections are mostly answered. Fr. Ripperger is an example of a traditional Priest and Exorcist who promotes this Devotion and believes it to be quite powerful. SSPX Priests who promote it are less few, but there are some. Most made the mistake of being misled by the 1959 decision, without inquiring into what had happened before.

    Sede Catholic's many sources should clear it up, as should the Wiki link. The Church of the 30s and 40s favored the Devotion.

    Here's a final reference to a recent discovery that confirms Divine Mercy was indeed the Work of God and Mercy from Heaven.

    "The Holy Face in the original Divine Mercy Image is the Holy Face on the Shroud of Turin! A recently discovered miracle. 

    1. "For it was only recently [1996] that a larger image, printed from the 1931 photographic plates of the Shroud of Turin, was placed by chance on top of a comparably-sized poster of the Divine Mercy image painted in Vilnius in 1934 with the result that, when the superimposed images were unexpectedly backlit, they revealed a startling coincidence ... when the photo of the Divine Mercy painting was enlarged so that the outer line of the hair on the head matched the same line on the shroud image, the result was remarkable. It was found that on both images there is the same distance between the pupils; the nose is of practically the same length; the form of the lips is identical; the moustache and the beard are of the same cut; the hair falls at the sides in the same way. All these points allow for a practically perfect correspondence between the two faces. " https://www.thedivinemercy.org/momm/programs/divinecoincidence.php

    2. When we contemplate Our Lord's Holy Face - entirely non-controversial devotion - we are drawn to Him in love, and share in His gifts; we feel the need of penance and reparation. This is the reason Jesus gave in explaining why devotion to His Holy Face does not take away from devotion to His Sacred Heart but rather completes and augments it. It is the same here: "At the very core of both of these devotions are Our Lord’s words to both of these sisters who had a desire to fulfill the wishes of His Sacred Heart. He explained to these sisters that no one should fear that this devotion will take away from the devotion to His Sacred Heart but to the contrary the devotion of the Sacred Heart is "completed and augmented" in the devotion to the Holy Face since "in contemplating My Face, souls will share in all My gifts and will feel the need for love and reparation." 

    So the objections mostly misrepresent or misunderstand the nature and purpose of the devotion. I will just quote again in closing from Wiki, "Under both Pope Pius XI and Pope Pius XII, writings on devotion to the Divine Mercy were given imprimaturs by many bishops, making it an approved devotion.[40][41][42][43] Cardinals Adam Stefan Sapieha and August Hlond were among those who gave their approval.[44][45] During the papacy of Pope Pius XII, Vatican Radio broadcast several times about the Divine Mercy.[46]"
    "We wish also to make amends for the insults to which Your Vicar on earth and Your Priests are everywhere subjected [above all by schismatic sedevacantists - Nishant Xavier], for the profanation, by conscious neglect or Terrible Acts of Sacrilege, of the very Sacrament of Your Divine Love; and lastly for the Public Crimes of Nations who resist the Rights and The Teaching Authority of the Church which You have founded." - Act of Reparation to the Sacred Heart of Lord Jesus.


    Offline St Paul

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    Re: Divine Mercy Devotion
    « Reply #41 on: March 31, 2019, 08:18:42 AM »
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  • Divine mercy of the NO has always bothered me.
    After i read this  i knew why:
    https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/f072_DivMercy.htm

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Divine Mercy Devotion
    « Reply #42 on: March 31, 2019, 09:02:20 AM »
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  • Now, what else? ServusSpiritusSanctus' objections are mostly answered. Fr. Ripperger is an example of a traditional Priest and Exorcist who promotes this Devotion and believes it to be quite powerful.

    In what way is the supposed divine mercy devotion "powerful," and why should that even be important?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Nishant Xavier

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    Re: Divine Mercy Devotion
    « Reply #43 on: April 01, 2019, 07:39:11 AM »
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  • Powerful in (1) making reparation for our sins and those of the world (The Body and Blood of Jesus are among the most powerful means to make reparation), we are encouraged to offer them to the Father in many chaplets, in (2) obtaining release for the souls in Purgatory etc. I will remind people that the Angel of Fatima itself taught the children a prayer very similar to a major Divine Mercy prayer, "MOST Holy Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, I adore Thee profoundly. I offer Thee the Most Precious Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ, present in all the tabernacles of the world, in reparation for the outrages, sacrileges, and indifference by which He is offended"

    See for source: http://www.catholictradition.org/Children/fatima-prayers.htm This was taught in Fatima, and is similar to Divine Mercy.

    The Divine Mercy prayer is "Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your Dearly Beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and for those of the whole world" which can be said many times. St. Faustina saw calamities averted as she repeated it throughout the day. It can be said before Holy Mass for example, along with mediation on the Passion of Jesus.

    The prayer of St. Gertrude, modified by the Church: "Eternal Father, I offer You the Most Precious Blood of Thy Divine Son, Jesus, in union with the Holy Masses said throughout the world today, for all the Holy Souls in Purgatory, for sinners everywhere, sinners in the universal Church, those within my own home and within my family" are another example of this form of prayer which is very powerful.

    Let me give you an example of another entirely non-controversial similar devotion called the Chaplet of Mercy, from Catholic Tradition.

    Here the principal prayer in the Chaplet is, "Eternal Father, we offer You the Holy Wounds of Our Lord Jesus Christ to heal the Wounds of our souls." http://www.catholictradition.org/Christ/holy-wounds.htm See the promises, all Church approved http://www.catholictradition.org/Children/number.htm#17 So this similar devotion allows us to understand why this form of prayer is also very pleasing to God, useful for ourselves and wins victories for the Church. Jesus promised, among other things, "At each word that you pronounce of the Chaplet of the Holy Wounds, I allow a drop of My Blood to fall upon the soul of a sinner.","Each time that you offer to My Father the merits of My Divine Wounds, you win an immense fortune.", "I will grant all that is asked of Me through the invocation of My Holy Wounds. You will obtain everything, because it is through the merit of My Blood, which is of infinite price. With My Wounds and My Divine Heart, everything can be obtained. "Those who honor them will have a true knowledge of Jesus Christ. In meditation on them, you will always find a new love.", "All your actions, even the least, soaked in My Blood, will acquire by this alone an infinite merit and will please My Heart" and "The invocations of the Holy Wounds will obtain an incessant victory for the Church".

    This is what Jesus asked on Day 8 in the Divine Mercy: Read the original words and you will see it is a very solid traditional devotion.

    https://www.ewtn.com/devotionals/mercy/novena.htm

    Eighth Day
    "Today bring to Me the Souls who are in the prison of Purgatory,

    and immerse them in the abyss of My mercy. Let the torrents of My Blood cool down their scorching flames. All these souls are greatly loved by Me. They are making retribution to My justice. It is in your power to bring them relief. Draw all the indulgences from the treasury of My Church and offer them on their behalf. Oh, if you only knew the torments they suffer, you would continually offer for them the alms of the spirit and pay off their debt to My justice."  

    Most Merciful Jesus, You Yourself have said that You desire mercy; so I bring into the abode of Your Most Compassionate Heart the souls in Purgatory, souls who are very dear to You, and yet, who must make retribution to Your justice. May the streams of Blood and Water which gushed forth from Your Heart put out the flames of Purgatory, that there, too, the power of Your mercy may be celebrated.

    Eternal Father, turn Your merciful gaze upon the souls suffering in Purgatory, who are enfolded in the Most Compassionate Heart of Jesus. I beg You, by the sorrowful Passion of Jesus Your Son, and by all the bitterness with which His most sacred Soul was flooded: Manifest Your mercy to the souls who are under Your just scrutiny. Look upon them in no other way but only through the Wounds of Jesus, Your dearly beloved Son; for we firmly believe that there is no limit to Your goodness and compassion. Amen."

    "We wish also to make amends for the insults to which Your Vicar on earth and Your Priests are everywhere subjected [above all by schismatic sedevacantists - Nishant Xavier], for the profanation, by conscious neglect or Terrible Acts of Sacrilege, of the very Sacrament of Your Divine Love; and lastly for the Public Crimes of Nations who resist the Rights and The Teaching Authority of the Church which You have founded." - Act of Reparation to the Sacred Heart of Lord Jesus.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Divine Mercy Devotion
    « Reply #44 on: April 01, 2019, 08:12:44 AM »
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  • XavierSem pops in on the wrong side of every single issue.

    If you exemplify the neo-SSPX, then I want to have nothing to do with them.  You singlehandedly make the best argument to red-lighting neo-SSPX.