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Author Topic: Disobedient Indultarian Ordained  (Read 6147 times)

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Disobedient Indultarian Ordained
« on: May 15, 2022, 08:15:46 AM »
Now this is a new breed of cat:

Indultarian group receives ordination against will of local bishop, then gets suspended:

https://gloria.tv/post/sqxRADTvQ6KY2UKEPacN66QYQ

It will be interesting to see if this new dynamic causes them to become more traditional.

If this prototype became a trend, it would spell the death of the conciliar church (eg., Just imagine if the Franciscan Friars suppressed and disbanded by Francis had, instead of complying, turned to Bishop Williamson).




Bishop Refuses Roman Ordinations, Monastery Finds Solution



The English-speaking monastery [color=var(--link-fg, #1a73e8)]Saint Benoit in Brignoles[/iurl], France, organised in April at a discrete location outside France "unauthorised" Roman Rite ordinations celebrated by a “senior prelate in unimpeded communion with the Holy See.”

The prelate ordained founding Prior Alcuin Reid who has been a deacon for several years to the priesthood and another monk to the diaconate. Saint Benoit in Brignoles is only a diocesan association of the faithful.

The Australian born prior is a liturgical scholar. His 2005 book The Organic Development of the Liturgy carries a preface by Cardinal Ratzinger.

The monastery depended not always successfully on diocesan priests for the celebration of Mass. Three visitators recommended to ordain a monk, recently in December.

However, Fréjus-Toulon Bishop Dominique Rey, a good man, was unwilling to proceed with the ordinations. What Rey called “prudence” the monastery calls fear of repercussions increased by a recent apostolic visitation of the diocesan seminary. In January, Rey confirmed that he wouldn't proceed with ordinations.

The monastery justified the ordinations with the Church's extraordinary situation. Rey has "suspended" those ordained.

#newsJspowwjcgd




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Re: Disobedient Indultarian Ordained
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2022, 08:35:41 AM »
I cannot recall a case where a diocesan bishop refused ordinations, and then the community in question clandestinely seeks and receives ordinations by another conciliar bishop.

Into whose diocese was he incardinated?  And if he was incardinated into the clandestine bishop’s diocese, of what value and legal force is Bishop Rey’s suspension?  And if more conservative priestly candidates will simply shop for sympathetic bishops to ordain them (and those bishops start accepting these requests), how will the conciliar deep church survive?

Prediction: The clandestine bishop will be censured to send a message that this “work-around” will not be tolerated.


Re: Disobedient Indultarian Ordained
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2022, 09:46:48 AM »
Got to wonder, precisely what canon law was violated here?

Here's the situation:

Seminarian prepares to be called for ordination by Bishop A.
Bishop A refuses to ordain him.
Bishop B is willing to ordain him instead.

The only problem I see here, is that Bishop B is basically getting a priest without having had to pay the costs of educating him all those years, so as a matter of justice, Bishop B might have to write Bishop A a check.  Aside from that, it is hard to see a problem here.

To stretch the scenario a bit further, let's say that a seminarian gets pretty much all the way through his education and training.  His bishop refuses to ordain him and basically kicks him out.  The now-ex-seminarian returns to secular life.  Then, at some later date, he finds a bishop who is happy to have him.  That bishop ordains him.  It's hard to see how the refusing bishop would have been done any more of an injustice than the seminarian was done by having ordination refused in the first place.

Re: Disobedient Indultarian Ordained
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2022, 09:55:39 AM »
Got to wonder, precisely what canon law was violated here?

Here's the situation:

Seminarian prepares to be called for ordination by Bishop A.
Bishop A refuses to ordain him.
Bishop B is willing to ordain him instead.

The only problem I see here, is that Bishop B is basically getting a priest without having had to pay the costs of educating him all those years, so as a matter of justice, Bishop B might have to write Bishop A a check.  Aside from that, it is hard to see a problem here.

To stretch the scenario a bit further, let's say that a seminarian gets pretty much all the way through his education and training.  His bishop refuses to ordain him and basically kicks him out.  The now-ex-seminarian returns to secular life.  Then, at some later date, he finds a bishop who is happy to have him.  That bishop ordains him.  It's hard to see how the refusing bishop would have been done any more of an injustice than the seminarian was done by having ordination refused in the first place.

The issue is that one bishop is ordaining priests to operate in another bishop’s diocese against his will (regardless of who’s diocese he’s incardinated into).

Re: Disobedient Indultarian Ordained
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2022, 11:00:26 AM »
Hopefully they find tradition, but hopefully they aren't pervs.