I am becoming dissilusioned with sedevacantism. It seems that except for a few good priests and bishops such as Bishop Pivarunus, Father Stepanich, Father Vallencourt, and Father Rammolla, the sede movement is filled with lying and perverse clergy that seem to get their marching orders straight from hell. I have talked to so many hurt souls that have been damaged in the sede movement. It almost seems that the few good priests that I mentioned above seem to be the exception and not the rule in the sede camp. It seems that for most people, the only sane options are the SSPX or home aloneism. I am not sure that I agree with home aloneism as I have talked to many home aloners that have gone off the deep end.

I am starting to think that in this crisis that the safest and best option for oneself and ones family is the SSPX.

Andrew

Can I ask something of SSPX groupers and others....

If you believe that the recent 'popes' are valid, then why are you disobeying them? Why are you teaching your children things that conflict with what the 'pope' has taught concerning heaven, hell, purgatory, limbo, sin.... ?

The reason why I'm a sedevacantist is because I feel I must until the church in Rome begins to teach truth again. If I recognize somebody as a pope, then that means I must obey him and the priests I receive the sacraments from must obey him formost, and particularly answer to the local bishops set in place by that pope.

Keep in mind that if I had no other choice, I would attend mass at SSPX chapels - as long as I feel they are offering valid sacraments and have not been compromised. But I would feel uncomfortable every single time I hear something coming out of Rome that I know is contradictory to what I learned in my catechism.

Oh, I forgot you also shouldn't have to ask your sodomite coworker if he can find out if the sede priest is out doing his thing at the gαy bars.

 It is interesting that your theological dispositions are based solely on the attitudes and behavior of priests.

 What you believe to be the truth (i.e. sedevacantism) should be true no matter how certain priests 'act'.

Can I ask something of SSPX groupers and others....

If you believe that the recent 'popes' are valid, then why are you disobeying them? Why are you teaching your children things that conflict with what the 'pope' has taught concerning heaven, hell, purgatory, limbo, sin.... ?

The reason why I'm a sedevacantist is because I feel I must until the church in Rome begins to teach truth again. If I recognize somebody as a pope, then that means I must obey him and the priests I receive the sacraments from must obey him formost, and particularly answer to the local bishops set in place by that pope.

Keep in mind that if I had no other choice, I would attend mass at SSPX chapels - as long as I feel they are offering valid sacraments and have not been compromised. But I would feel uncomfortable every single time I hear something coming out of Rome that I know is contradictory to what I learned in my catechism.

Can you acknowledge parents who are telling you to do something wrong? If one of your parents commands you to do something sinful or wrong (such as to go to college or join the army, instead of follow a religious vocation you believe you have), do you have to conclude that they aren't your parents?

Acknowledging someone's office and obeying their every command are two different things.

Remember the quote, "The papacy wasn't given to Peter that he might create a new religion..." or something to that effect.

It's outside the Pope's power to change the faith or create a new religion. Any such commands MUST be respectfully disobeyed.

The Pope MUST will to build up the Church -- not tear her down. Anyone building up the church is following the Pope -- even if the Pope isn't doing that himself! That's how it works.

When Benedict XVI does things that tend to dissolve the Church, he does so NOT "as pope" but as a private, peccable individual with free will.

We must obey God rather than men.

Matthew

@Chantcd - is that what the church teaches w/r to obedience to the pope?

Keep in mind that this is the reason why the pope needs to be infallible when speaking of matters of faith. Because we, as the faithful, must obey him.

It goes back to something I heard in a sermon this past year and it particularly struck me. This concerned the difference in the way the CMRI celebrates Holy Week and the way that certain priests adhere to the older rites.

This has nothing to do with validity of those rites. Pope Pius XII was a valid pope. Some just choose to go back to those older rites because they are beautiful.

The priest in the sermon said that if a true pope were elected and one that united the church again, then anything he said would go. If he said that all of the bishops and priests had to scrap the older rites, then those bishops and priests would have to obey him, no questions asked.

That said... I think because we are Americans... we have gotten used to thinking of the pope as a sort of figurehead who has no real authority on us. Doesn't mean this is correct, and I think it is the reason why we have so many people who are 'catholic in name only'.

However, to do that job he CANNOT resort to compromising on dogmas. Better that no one converts, than that the Faith should be changed into something "other".

Exactly. And he cannot teach heresies... which, the last bunch of 'popes' have.

Can I ask something of SSPX groupers and others....

If you believe that the recent 'popes' are valid, then why are you disobeying them? Why are you teaching your children things that conflict with what the 'pope' has taught concerning heaven, hell, purgatory, limbo, sin.... ?

The reason why I'm a sedevacantist is because I feel I must until the church in Rome begins to teach truth again. If I recognize somebody as a pope, then that means I must obey him and the priests I receive the sacraments from must obey him formost, and particularly answer to the local bishops set in place by that pope.

Keep in mind that if I had no other choice, I would attend mass at SSPX chapels - as long as I feel they are offering valid sacraments and have not been compromised. But I would feel uncomfortable every single time I hear something coming out of Rome that I know is contradictory to what I learned in my catechism.

Well, one question is: what do we have the authority to do?

As Catholics we have the right to disobey unlawful orders, and the duty to disobey immoral orders no matter who they come from.  The Ordinary forcing me to attend a "clown Mass" is immoral as well as unlawful.  If the same Ordinary orders the diocese to stand on their heads every other Friday as penance, that's stupid, but a lawful order, and I would obey.

We do not have the authority to depose a Pope much less proclaim him guilty of heresy.  Historically when there have been anti-Popes it has been resolved by the bishops in union with each other; I suspect the same would be true if a Pope committed heresy in the degree and form that would cause him to lose the See.

But a layman certainly doesn't have that kind of authority, amd neither do a few bishops scattered here and there.  The Pope is whom the Cardinals elect unless God tells us otherwise through his bishops or by putting an end to the Pontificate.