Hi everyone,

As the title of this thread posts, does anyone out there have any sources that go after each video they make and point out erroneous things or falsities, maybe even in a commentary-like fashion. Please do not read too deep into me or this post, I'm just asking for some of those other sedevacantists or even NO apologists to show me something as I've always wondered if any thing exists.

And don't post this:
http://mostholyfamily.com/
or
http://www.catholicintl.com/epologetics/dialogs/church/dimondbros.htm
or
http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/02/dietrich-von-hildebrand-legitimate.html
or
this one other link I cant seem to find right now that vehemently trashes sedevacantism and Dimonds too without any reasoning.

Thanks!

Belloc,

I think the desire to refute them simply comes from the awareness that, like it or not, they have become widely known and have influenced many people.  While they have provided many with a mountain of facts, they have also left a very bad taste in the mouths of most (especially the young man they ripped off).  They give a bad name to sedes, to be sure, but also to Trads as a whole (albeit to a smaller degree).  IMO, this is likely why some might think it would be good to systematically refute them, exposing them for what they are.

Link?  I am sure you can find it, but here is the story, which I lifted from CAF...

Saturday, July 18, 2009

Racketeering Charges Entered against Holy Family Monastery
U.S. District Judge Allows Case to Proceed against Dimond Brothers

The Daily Record of Rochester, New York, has reported that a U.S. federal lawsuit has been entered against Holy Family Monastery in Fillmore, New York, for fraud by a young man who turned over almost 1,400,000 U.S. dollars in cash and stocks to the monastery. Eric Hoyle joined the Most Holy Family Monastery to become a Benedictine monk under the guidance of Frederick Dimond. Hoyle claims that Dimond, known as Brother Michael, who operates the monastery with his brother, Robert Dimond, told him that he would have to turn over all his worldly possessions to the monastery. He did.

The Daily Record reported that after joining the group in September 2005, Hoyle transferred securities valued at 1,200,000 U.S. dollars and gave thousands to the monastery, according to his federal complaint. He also signed an agreement that he would receive $750,000 if he left. Hoyle did leave on December 31, 2007, and filed a federal lawsuit against the Dimond brothers to recover his donations. The amended civil complaint accuses the Dimonds of fraud, negligent misrepresentation, unjust enrichment, plus racketeering and several additional causes of action.

The Daily Record reports that the lawsuit will go forward in federal court, as the defendant Dimond brothers' attempt to dismiss the case was recently denied by U.S. District Judge John Curtin in Buffalo, New York, who also allowed plaintiff Hoyle to add several causes of action to his complaint, including a conspiracy claim under the federal Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO). The judge upheld the racketeering claim, saying that plaintiff Hoyle alleged specific facts which, if true, would show that the defendants conspired to commit a crime by making false representations and by soliciting donations and postulants for several years. The judge also said that plaintiff Hoyle was entitled to pursue claims for unjust enrichment.

Could be, Classicom...or it could be that the Dimonds are scam artists, using the desperation of people to pay for their projects, etc.

Time will tell, but their overall spirit is clearly a problem.

Belloc,

I think the desire to refute them simply comes from the awareness that, like it or not, they have become widely known and have influenced many people.  While they have provided many with a mountain of facts, they have also left a very bad taste in the mouths of most (especially the young man they ripped off).  They give a bad name to sedes, to be sure, but also to Trads as a whole (albeit to a smaller degree).  IMO, this is likely why some might think it would be good to systematically refute them, exposing them for what they are.

I would like to see a specific refutation of an audio from this page from their website....
http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/Traditional_Catholic_Audios.php

that is titled....   Sept. 9 Radio Program: An in-depth discussion of Outside the Church There is No Salvation and the water baptism issue [2 hrs]

If you haven't listened to it, please do and respond.  Thanks.

Same goes for you too, gladius.  You declare it as established fact that they ripped this guy off when in fact there are two sides to the story.  This guy actually went even further radical than the Dimonds (considering them to be bad-willed heretics LOL).  According to the Dimonds, they never made him or tried to persuade him to turn his money over to the monastery, but just told him that he needed to dispense with his wealth in order to become a Benedictine monk.  He, according to the Dimonds, voluntarily chose to give them his money.  There is the outstanding question of whether, as per their contract, they owe him $750K of it back.  One can disagree with the Dimonds on a lot of issues, but I don't consider them in the least bit driven by a desire for material things.  They sell their materials for what must be a loss.  They sent me a DVD I ordered for $5 and enclosed for free several booklets and audio CDs--and the postage marked on the package was nearly $4.  So I doubt that they even made ten cents on the transaction.

I admire the dispassionate approach, Ladislaus, but here is my main problem -- these guys claim to be Benedictine monks, dress like Benedictine monks, claim to be running a monastery for which they recruit other "brothers," but they are nothing of the kind.  Let's face it; that does not reveal a great integrity in their characters.  It is actually kind of scary, when you think about it -- they are playing make-believe like children.  Hey, I want to be a priest, should I just start wearing a cassock and telling people to confess to me?

Ladislaus said:

They sent me a DVD I ordered for $5 and enclosed for free several booklets and audio CDs--and the postage marked on the package was nearly $4. So I doubt that they even made ten cents on the transaction.

Maybe that's why they had to steal 750K -- ALLEGEDLY.  

The Dimonds may mean well, but they are dangerous.  They had me convinced for a long time, as the site has seen, that invincible ignorance was a heresy.  I was staying home from Mass when it was not necessary to do so.  Of course that also had to do with NFP ( which they are also against ).

Elizabeth said something once about how their zeal would have been commendable and understandable if they were newbies but that now it is looking like they are caught in pride, and that is pretty much the long and the short of it.  Their position just doesn't hold water and if they truly wanted to own up to their mistakes, they have had lots of time to do so.  

They say that you cannot go to any chapel where the priest is "imposing" about baptism of desire yet they go to a VII Byzantine rite chapel.  What makes this doubly bad is that, as far as I can tell, they made up this criterion about how you cannot support a priest who is "imposing" with his supposed heresies completely from scratch; I've never seen that terminology used anywhere else.  

More:  They believe the idea of salvation via implicit faith is heresy yet according to them Protestants past the age of reason, even those who cannot plead invincible ignorance in any real sense, can be saved outside the Church!  And on the issue of NFP, they believe it is wrong but somehow don't hold Pius XII accountable for having taught it.  Some of their theological positions are completely random.

On the other hand, they have collected lots of good information on the anti-Popes -- they probably are the best at that.  Many of us have probably found our way to tradition through their site.  So it is worthwhile to treat them with charity and respect and pray that they come out of their somewhat dense fog.  Maybe this court case is just what they need to wear them down and teach them some humility.  Maybe it will smoke them out of their phony "monastery."

Dimonds I believe follow the commonly held misconception that the French Popes of the GWS were anti-popes. With the possible exception of the last John, this is not the case.

Not to mention that they follow the Cardinal Rampolla smear propoganda. I also believe they are heretical in the recognition of Boniface VIII(8).  :smoke-pot: