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Author Topic: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?  (Read 10136 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2024, 05:48:38 AM »
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  • They surely have.

    You have no idea what you're talking about.  Dimond Brothers have never held that "all Trad Sacraments are invalid".  They've certainly held that most (nearly all) Trad groups have embraced and promoted heresy, but that has nothing whatsoever do do with the validity of their Sacraments.  They obviously realize that it would be heretical to claim that heretics cannot have valid Sacraments.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #46 on: February 12, 2024, 06:17:02 AM »
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  • The meaning of “dark sede” is, in their theology, everything… all trad Sacraments are invalid.

    Can you provide a quote? 

    It is my understanding that they no longer assist at any mass, but I do not believe it is because they think the trad sacraments are "invalid".  At best, if they are truly "home-aloners", then they would think the sacraments are "illicit" and that it would be a mortal sin to assist at one.

    I used the search function on their site.  When you type in "Invalid", you get articles pertaining to the New Rites.  When I typed in "sacraments", I found this file.  Unfortunately, it is dated 2014:

    Where To Receive Sacraments (schismatic-home-aloner.com)

    Here, their issue focuses on what the priests teach, not their ordination rite.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #47 on: February 12, 2024, 06:32:07 AM »
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  • It is my understanding that they no longer assist at any mass, but I do not believe it is because they think the trad sacraments are "invalid".  At best, if they are truly "home-aloners", then they would think the sacraments are "illicit" and that it would be a mortal sin to assist at one.

    Your understanding is correct.

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicians - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #48 on: March 14, 2024, 03:37:36 AM »
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  • https://twitter.com/AntiDimondWatch/status/1766483615662125439

    So St. John Bosco did 'magic' tricks. I don't think every trick is demonic though many magicians do make demonic pacts.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicians - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #49 on: March 14, 2024, 06:03:18 AM »
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  • https://twitter.com/AntiDimondWatch/status/1766483615662125439

    So St. John Bosco did 'magic' tricks. I don't think every trick is demonic though many magicians do make demonic pacts.

    Do you have a point?  Dimonds clearly stated right out of the gate that not all “magic” involves diabolical forces.  You’re creating a strawman here by implying that they believe this.

    At least 95% of what they show on the video is almost certainly diabolical … short of camera tricks and “audiences” that were completely in on it.  Many of the “magicians” openly admit and even boast about working with various spirits and even demons.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #50 on: March 14, 2024, 06:16:03 AM »
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  • I went through the two main alleged “debunking” videos and pointed out how they don’t come close to explaining the actual tricks shown by the Dimonds.

    1) one guy built a metal apparatus to simulate the street levitation … but there’s clearly no apparatus involved in the actual tricks shown, as they move locations, without any sign of an apparatus … and the one guy used someone’s head at one point

    2) wall of China debunk showed the magician going inside the stairs and then being wheeled around the other side of a shipping container.  But you can clearly see that there’s no compartment beneath the stairs or the platform in Copperfield’s version and no way to wheel him around or through the wall of China ( which is not a relatively small shipping container)

    Offline EWPJ

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #51 on: March 14, 2024, 10:07:11 PM »
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  • This guy...(he's a V2 supporter but I did laugh at a couple of his parody videos.)

    https://www.youtube.com/@Deuterocomical/videos

    ...is supposed to debunk the Dimonds magicians videos (he talks about it in this comment section...)

    ...under the "You're a fool" comment) and has stated he challenged the Dimonds to a debate on the matter and they have not accepted (or rejected) apparently his e-mail challenge was ignored. 

    I'm interested in what he can supposedly debunk but I think Dimonds did a very solid video on these and don't really think they can be debunked on (most or all of) this.  Won't be surprised if he just sets up and attacks strawmen.  I do think one or two of the tricks covered could be explainable by natural means but I have no doubt many of these people are actually sorcerors that made a deal with the devil.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #52 on: March 15, 2024, 06:21:23 AM »
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  • I'm interested in what he can supposedly debunk but I think Dimonds did a very solid video on these and don't really think they can be debunked on (most or all of) this.  Won't be surprised if he just sets up and attacks strawmen.  I do think one or two of the tricks covered could be explainable by natural means but I have no doubt many of these people are actually sorcerors that made a deal with the devil.

    That was a humorous parody video.  I went through the alleged debunking threads on Twitter and found the two examples they gave to be ludicrious, not even coming close to explaining what we saw.  Barring some extreme camera trickery and audiences who were "in on" it, at least 90% of these can't be explained other than through diabolical agency.  On top of that, many (if not most) of the magicians featured in the Dimond video boasted of working with "entities", and some explicitly calling them demons.


    Offline EWPJ

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #53 on: March 15, 2024, 10:07:50 PM »
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  • That was a humorous parody video.  I went through the alleged debunking threads on Twitter and found the two examples they gave to be ludicrious, not even coming close to explaining what we saw.  Barring some extreme camera trickery and audiences who were "in on" it, at least 90% of these can't be explained other than through diabolical agency.  On top of that, many (if not most) of the magicians featured in the Dimond video boasted of working with "entities", and some explicitly calling them demons.

    Yeah, there will always be the scoffers who just don't want to believe and they say that the sorcerors were "kidding" when they say stuff like working with demons and such.  Basically they will make every excuse to not believe that these people are diabolically influenced or that evil demons exist.  

    Offline EWPJ

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #54 on: April 09, 2024, 11:16:06 PM »
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  • The "Deuterocomical" guy actually did release a video trying to debunk Dimonds magician video.  It's about an hour long.  I haven't seen it yet but am going to give it a view but I'm guessing he attacks some strawmen or only attacks one or two points and claims victory.   


    Offline EWPJ

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #55 on: April 10, 2024, 11:02:36 PM »
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  • After watching the video I must say the presenter did produce some decent evidence debunking some of Dimonds claims for some of the tricks.  Video started strong-ish then he got a little bit into speculation territory with some ok statements/arguments in the middle which didn't necessarily refute anything but made some good alternating points and then brought up a few good points at the end and then challenged Michael Dimond to a debate on the matter.  He does admit there are sorcerors out there but doesn't think the ones he defended on the show that Dimonds attacked are using black magic and he does make some good points to this by showing how many of the tricks are done. 

    Overall I give the guy a C+ (B- if I'm being generous) for this effort (he's a Novus Ordite though unfortunately) and think the video is worth a view to see the other side.


    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #56 on: April 11, 2024, 06:45:02 AM »
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  • The "Deuterocomical" guy actually did release a video trying to debunk Dimonds magician video.  It's about an hour long.  I haven't seen it yet but am going to give it a view but I'm guessing he attacks some strawmen or only attacks one or two points and claims victory.   


    Good video. It's like debunking Lad's flat earth magic and supposed lying scientists with real physics. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's fake or false or real magic. It's too easy to be deceived. Look first to rational natural explanations even though you can't think of any.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #57 on: April 11, 2024, 07:09:53 AM »
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  • Good video. It's like debunking Lad's flat earth magic and supposed lying scientists with real physics. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's fake or false or real magic. It's too easy to be deceived. Look first to rational natural explanations even though you can't think of any.

    Most of the video is complete garbage, and the fact that you consider it "good" is a sign of your lack of intellectual capacity, and your lack of any deep supernatural faith.  There's no "magic" to flat earth either, and you have never refuted the flat earth position with any rational argument.  You're nothing but a faithless idiot.

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #58 on: April 11, 2024, 07:56:02 AM »
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  • Most of the video is complete garbage, and the fact that you consider it "good" is a sign of your lack of intellectual capacity, and your lack of any deep supernatural faith.  There's no "magic" to flat earth either, and you have never refuted the flat earth position with any rational argument.  You're nothing but a faithless idiot.
    It's good as far as it shows that most of the very believable tricks are just clever illusions. It shows how easy it is to be deceived by simple physics and nature. Certainly the video was not as thorough as it should have been, and surely there are some demonic forces at work.

    You aren't me, so you can't judge the extent of my faith.

    I have refuted some FE "proofs" in the past, then everyone goes quiet until they forget the refutation, then go back to their same old irrefutable "proofs".
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #59 on: April 11, 2024, 04:13:17 PM »
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  • The "Deuterocomical" guy actually did release a video trying to debunk Dimonds magician video.  It's about an hour long.  I haven't seen it yet but am going to give it a view but I'm guessing he attacks some strawmen or only attacks one or two points and claims victory.   




    Thank you for posting this. This was fantastic. I watched the majority of it, and yes, he answered the video very well. Just because Michael Dimond doesn't know how a trick is done, doesn't mean it was done by the devil.

    It is superstitious to assign a supernatural cause to some event without proof. In the absence of proof of a supernatural causation, one must assume the cause is a natural event, even if one doesn't know what the natural cause is. This is the Catholic way of thinking. If Michael Dimond knew anything about the Catholic faith, he would know that.

    So, if something good happens to you, you don't assume it happened because of your lucky rabbit's foot. You assume you just got lucky.