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Author Topic: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?  (Read 10214 times)

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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2024, 11:14:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on February 08, 2024, 10:30:28 AM
    It's not taught in the Catechism, but we've spent many pages debating it.  Catechism merely states that there isn't the same danger for adults as for infants (in terms of needing to be baptized ASAP in all cases) because their intention to receive Baptism would prevail over any obstacles that might get in the way (subjunctive mood), and the language is nearly identical to that of St. Fulgentius who completed the sentence in saying ... "because God would make sure they don't die before receiving the Sacrament" on account of said intention.

    Yeah, we've discussed this over and over. I was not inviting another debate on that much traveled ground, but merely quoting Matthew, who thinks (as I do) that BoD is taught in the Catechism.
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    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #16 on: February 08, 2024, 11:31:53 AM »
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    • Quote from: DecemRationis on February 08, 2024, 11:14:30 AM
    Yeah, we've discussed this over and over. I was not inviting another debate on that much traveled ground, but merely quoting Matthew, who thinks (as I do) that BoD is taught in the Catechism.

    Sounds good.  We needn't digress again (for the 20th time).
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    Offline Everlast22

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #17 on: February 08, 2024, 11:38:43 AM »
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    • If I'm trying to explain BOD to the average Catholic/Normie, I would say "There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church, that is a Dogma." and then not say much after that. I am not a theologian. 

    BOD and BOB should be left to God's judgment. Something we should not "promote" as the V2 wrongly interprets this. I believe it just confuses people. Council of Trent teaches BOD/BOB if I'm not mistaken. 





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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #18 on: February 08, 2024, 11:39:05 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on February 08, 2024, 10:58:01 AM
    Some of the language St. Jerome uses towards heretics would make anything we've seen posted by the Dimonds tame by comparison.  It's important not to slide into a bitter zeal, but that can't be at the cost of going soft on heresy, since it destroys souls.

    There are several problems with this.

    1. "Just make sure to avoid bitter zeal?" With the Dimond Brothers, that ship has already sailed. I don't have a problem with St. Athanasius or any other hard-line Trad Catholic (including before the qualifier "Trad" was needed for a Catholic). I'm not after mealy-mouth, nitheness, limp-wristedness, or mincing words. What I WOULD like is the Truth, without any poison mixed in. And dogmatic Home Aloneism ("There is no good Trad group out there to attend Mass with", or the same thing "except these 2 priests") is worse than the Novus Ordo in my opinion.

    2. Attacking HERESY and HERETICS is one thing. Attacking all and sundry TRAD/real Catholics? Anathamatizing countless good Catholics, as if you're a Pope with an itchy trigger finger? That's another story. That's why I have NO use for the Dimond Brothers.

    Whatever "good" they have done/are doing are being done MUCH BETTER, WITHOUT THE POISON, by countless other priests and bishops (and Trad groups). We don't need the Dimonds. If they were shut down, the world would be a better place.

    As for those who "converted" because of the Dimond Brothers, just remember God can bring good out of evil, like the Crucifixion of Christ. Did Pontius Pilate do a good deed for humanity? Of course not.

    You show me 10 people who "converted" because of the Dimond Brothers, I'll show you 10 men who would have converted just as well if they had stumbled onto ANOTHER Trad website in their online sleuthing instead, if Dimond Bros had been shut down (as I fervently wish for to this day). And in fact, they'd be better off, since they'd have found the Truth WITHOUT bitter zeal, schism, heresy, error, Home Aloneism, and other garbage mixed in. They'd end up better Trad Catholics if they had clicked on "the next" search result, whatever they would have clicked on if Dimond Bros hadn't been there.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #19 on: February 08, 2024, 11:39:20 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on February 08, 2024, 11:13:06 AM
    Yes.  It used to be that this is what attracted many to Catholicism -- principles and truth.  Yes or no.  Black or white.  V2's "springtime" threw away the harsh realities of the summer heat and the winter cold, and put flowers and lukewarm temperatures everywhere (to continue my horrible analogy).  People inherently hate wishy-washyness and that's why people no longer take catholicism seriously...because there's no lofty goals of sainthood to strive for, and there's no dread of eternal pains in hell to suffer anymore.  The Diamonds remind people that truths matter in a serious way and following this way has meaning.

    Even in the secular arena, this is one of the main reasons people (well, conservatives) really like Trump, because Trump just speaks his mind and is blunt, and people have gotten sick of the mealy-mouthed "politician" non-answers to every question, where they're holding up their fingers to see which way the winds are blowing before answering, or not answering (with many words).
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #20 on: February 08, 2024, 11:43:32 AM »
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    • That's a great analogy, Lad. 

    Dimond Brothers are like Trump.

    But you see, I'm not a huge fan of Trump, for countless reasons. Sure, Trump speaks some truth now and then, in a world STARVED for the truth. But is he a good man, or a solution? Should he be the President, objectively speaking?

    Think about it.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #21 on: February 08, 2024, 11:51:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on February 08, 2024, 11:43:32 AM
    That's a great analogy, Lad.

    Dimond Brothers are like Trump.

    But you see, I'm not a huge fan of Trump, for countless reasons. Sure, Trump speaks some truth now and then, in a world STARVED for the truth. But is he a good man, or a solution? Should he be the President, objectively speaking?

    Think about it.

    Well, I'm not a fan of Trump because he doesn't actually follow through on his bluster, his suspect personal morality, his subservience to Israel, and his yuge but fragile ego.  I don't dislike Trump because of his style, though.  Like most, I find his bluntness refreshing.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #22 on: February 08, 2024, 12:33:20 PM »
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    • Quote
    Dimond Brothers are like Trump.

    But you see, I'm not a huge fan of Trump, for countless reasons.
    The Diamond Bros are like Trump...if he were Catholic.  If Trump's "style" was used to spread the Faith, then he would be a great preacher.  The Diamonds are blunt, short and factual.

    Regular politicians are like +Fellay, who says "I like 95% of V2", while white-washing the 5% that's deadly.  He's confusing, non-genuine and swarmy.

    Both the Diamond Bros and Fellay have the Faith, but the way it's presented to non-catholics is night and day.
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #23 on: February 08, 2024, 01:57:45 PM »
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    • Quote from: Marulus Fidelis on February 08, 2024, 10:38:30 AM
    Let's take the example of the guy floating in the air on the beach.

    Since you seem to believe that is not magic but some sort of trick you should be able to come up with a reasonable explanation of how he is flying.

    I'd venture to say that since this phenomenon exists for a long time and is well known you should be able to point to a demonstration on how it is done and how to repeat it.

    Of course, you can't, because floating in the air is impossible without supernatural assistance.

    Any number of supposed tricks from the video are likewise unexplainable naturally.
    .

    The nature of a trick is that it is something that appears to be impossible, so obviously it would have to be something that the average person (or most people) cannot explain. Otherwise it wouldn't be a trick, and it wouldn't be something anyone would pay money to see.

    I tried to look at the image you are talking about, but Twitter said the page no longer exists.

    Anyway, we are supposed to assume there is a natural explanation for something unless the contrary is proved. The magic video was a complete embarrassment. I watched a few of the more famous tricks that they claimed were impossible, and with a simple Google search I found out in 30 seconds how the trick was done. Like the guy who walked on the Thames river in London. The Demons said it was satanic. With a quick search I discovered that the guy put little platforms of transparent plastic right below the surface of the river, and that's what he was standing on when he walked on the Thames.

    There were several other tricks they mentioned that I did the same thing.

    You've never been to a magic show? Do you think it's possible to actually saw a lady in half or pull a rabbit out of a hat? I don't think so, but that doesn't mean those people are devil-worshipers.
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    Offline Everlast22

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #24 on: February 08, 2024, 02:25:20 PM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on February 08, 2024, 01:57:45 PM
    .

    The nature of a trick is that it is something that appears to be impossible, so obviously it would have to be something that the average person (or most people) cannot explain. Otherwise it wouldn't be a trick, and it wouldn't be something anyone would pay money to see.

    I tried to look at the image you are talking about, but Twitter said the page no longer exists.

    Anyway, we are supposed to assume there is a natural explanation for something unless the contrary is proved. The magic video was a complete embarrassment. I watched a few of the more famous tricks that they claimed were impossible, and with a simple Google search I found out in 30 seconds how the trick was done. Like the guy who walked on the Thames river in London. The Demons said it was satanic. With a quick search I discovered that the guy put little platforms of transparent plastic right below the surface of the river, and that's what he was standing on when he walked on the Thames.

    There were several other tricks they mentioned that I did the same thing.

    You've never been to a magic show? Do you think it's possible to actually saw a lady in half or pull a rabbit out of a hat? I don't think so, but that doesn't mean those people are devil-worshipers.
    "I found a nickel behind your ear. Look at that!"

    Looks like I'm a Satanist. :laugh1::laugh1:
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #25 on: February 08, 2024, 02:50:46 PM »
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    • Quote from: Everlast22 on February 08, 2024, 02:25:20 PM
    "I found a nickel behind your ear. Look at that!"

    Looks like I'm a Satanist. :laugh1::laugh1:

    Ridiculous.  People with your attitude beg the question that people don't make these deals with demons, almost showing a lack of faith in the invisible preternatural world, and also naively thinking that the world isn't filled with Satanists and Luciferians.  Those videos are filled with magicians talking about how they work with demons and have made deals with demons to perform their "magic", and the vast majority of what's on the film could not be accomplished by natural means ... if they aren't 100% CGI, except that a great many of them are performed publicly, often out in the open where there's nothing above but the sky, precluding the use of wires, etc.

    Watch that one 5-hour video about the Satanists/Masons put out by the former X-Factor winner in Australia where he lays it all out, about how the vast majority of the entertainers and politicians are engaged with the occult.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #26 on: February 08, 2024, 02:54:20 PM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on February 08, 2024, 01:57:45 PM
    Anyway, we are supposed to assume there is a natural explanation for something unless the contrary is proved.

    Ridiculous, and it's quite the opposite.  You assume that there is a natural explanation until proven otherwise, but unless these demons materialize you'd never be satisfied.  Apart from CGI and camera tricks, there's simply no natural explanation for most of what's shown in the video.  In many cases, camera tricks can be ruled out because the stunts are performed publicly and in front of very large crowds.

    Some posters here have very little actual believe in the spiritual world, that there are demons everywhere, and that many performers cut deal with demons in order to become rich and famous.
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    Offline Sneedevacantist

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #27 on: February 08, 2024, 06:38:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on February 08, 2024, 10:51:45 AM
    I personally know a handful of converts that came to Traditionalism (from other faiths) due to the Diamonds.  All converts were men. 


    The Diamonds are a little nutty on some things, and I don't like their constant anathemas of heresy, but...in our overly feminized, wishy-washy, "maybe, sometimes" world, the Diamonds presentation of the Faith as "yes, yes and no, no" speaks to people, mostly men.  It works.  Can't argue with results.
    I'm one of those converts. Someone had posted a link to their Steven Anderson docuмentary on 4chan, which is how I found out about them years ago. Even though I had an anti-Catholic bias during that time due to my Baptist Bible Belt upbringing, I still watched the video because Steven Anderson annoyed me (some people on 4chan would constantly shill for him, which sparked my annoyance). It was well worth it, because Peter Dimond was able to thoroughly dismantle Steven Anderson's wicked errors using the Bible alone. Every citation from scripture I double checked in my KJV, and sure enough it lined up. After that video, I became more interested in learning about traditional Catholicism. Eventually I moved on past them because there were some red flags in the back of my mind about them, but it took a while to move past them as I was slowly discerning truth in the sea of trad chaos. If I would have remained a dogmatic Dimondite, I would have never started attending Mass or properly learned the faith. The value of the sacraments cannot be understated!!!

    It's just too bad that the Dimonds espouse some errors, because their orthodox material is some of the best online that I've found. Their apologetics against non-Catholics is very compelling, and their blunt delivery is refreshing in a world where people constantly beat around the bush.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #28 on: February 08, 2024, 07:33:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: Sneedevacantist on February 08, 2024, 06:38:18 PM
    It's just too bad that the Dimonds espouse some errors, because their orthodox material is some of the best online that I've found. Their apologetics against non-Catholics is very compelling, and their blunt delivery is refreshing in a world where people constantly beat around the bush.

    Agreed.  To me, the only significant error they hold is in assigning the note of heresy to BoD per se (rather than just its extension), since it's clear that the Church has long tolerated the opinion, and there no direct smoking-gun contradiction with defined dogma.  I do agree with them that BoD doesn't exist (except in the St. Ambrose sense of "washing but not crowning", or Father Feeney's justification but no salvation), that there's no need for it, and its extension has caused irreparable harm to EENS dogma, just not with the conclusion that everyone who believes in BoD, including those who limit it to Catechumens and the like are therefore heretics.  Apart from that I have a few smaller disagreements, i.e. about whether JP2 was THE Antichrist ... but that's just opinion and neither here nor there for me.  I also find some of their arguments to be logically faulty, even if I don't disagree with the overall conclusion (sometimes for other reasons).  They used to be far too bitter, but they have certainly softened their tone of late, while remaining very blunt and direct (which I too find refreshing).
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    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?
    « Reply #29 on: February 08, 2024, 09:39:36 PM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on February 08, 2024, 09:15:34 AM
    I went to that website, and instantly my screen was covered with a gigantic image of the masonic all-seeing eye in the pyramid, like on the back of the $1 bill.

    That appears to be their logo.

    The whole site gives me the creeps. Who are these people?
    The eye of providence is (was) a Catholic symbol, you will notice it in a lot of Catholic art. Though I do find off putting they chose such an eerie red and black version.
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