Author Topic: Dimond Contradiction (Read 10003 times)

Malleus · « **Reply #35 on:** April 28, 2015, 10:46:46 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Malleus
Quote from: Ladislaus
As per a citation on the SSPX.ORG website that they were attacking:

Quote
Salaverri, in his Sacrae Theologiae Summa (vol. I, 5th ed., Madrid, B.A.C.) distinguishes the following:

Extraordinary Infallible Papal Magisterium (no. 592 ff);

Ordinary Infallible Papal Magisterium (no. 645 ff);

Papal Magisterium that is mere authenticuм, that is, only "authentic" or "authorized" as regards the person himself, not as regards his infallibility (no. 659 ff).

So the authentic magisterium isn't infallible.

No, please read. MERELY authentic Magisterium is not infallible. Authentic Magisterium is the top level; within the Authentic Magisterium you can find infallible AND fallible teaching. Problem is that the SSPX.ORG article the Dimonds were attacking got lazy and kept referring to the MERELY authentic Magisterium as just the authentic Magisterium.

At the end, though, the argument is just over definitions and semantics; you had the Dimond brothers arguing that the infallible Magisterium was infallible (because they defined authentic Magisterium as = the infallible Magisterium) and the SSPX arguing that the non-infallible Magisterium was non-infallible (because they defined authentic Magisterium as = the non-infallible Magisterium). So this was a 60-minute video arguing over nothing more than the definition of a word.

Yes that's the one I was referring to.

Same question.

misericordianos · « **Reply #36 on:** April 28, 2015, 10:49:17 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Bellator Dei
Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Bellator Dei
It is not possible for the Teaching Authority of the Church to teach error.

This statement is just plain false; SVism has perpetuated this stupidity far too long now. Even the Dimonds admit that there can be errors in the Magisterium. NO CATHOLIC THEOLOGIAN has EVER taught that there cannot be any error in the Magisterium.

How is it possible for the TEACHING AUTHORITY of the Church to teach error?

Only the INFALLIBLE teaching authority of the Church cannot teach error. There's a mental malfunction that resulted from SVism which doesn't understand the Vatican I definition. It's a false and extreme counter-reaction to R&Rism which would allow for even the teaching of an Ecuмenical Council and the Church's Universal Discipline to have failed and to have taught grave / substantial error.

Is Pius XII's "Allocution to Midwives" infallible?

I'm not overly familiar with that Allocution. I know Piux XII said one could be justified by an "act of love" or something along those lines.

Can you quote his "error" if you're saying he taught error?

Thanks.

misericordianos · « **Reply #37 on:** April 28, 2015, 10:55:38 AM »

Do you mean this?

Quote

An act of love is sufficient for the adult to obtain sanctifying grace and to supply the lack of baptism; to the still unborn or newly born this way is not open.

Pius XII doesn't define act of love there so I don't think you can accuse him of error.

Does he go beyond the Roman Catechism for example? This says:

Quote

On adults, however, the Church has not been accustomed to confer the Sacrament of Baptism at once, but has ordained that it be deferred for a certain time. The delay is not attended with the same danger as in the case of infants, which we have already mentioned; should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness.

I would not be comfortable on what he said to claim he does.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #38 on:** April 28, 2015, 10:56:18 AM »

Quote from: Bellator Dei

Quote from: Ladislaus
Then what are you talking about? That Allocution is part of Pius XII's Authentic Magisterium.

Huh... So each pope has his own magisterium throughout the duration of his pontificate?

No, each Pope exercises the Magisterium while he's pope.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #39 on:** April 28, 2015, 10:57:54 AM »

Quote from: misericordianos

I'm not overly familiar with that Allocution. I know Piux XII said one could be justified by an "act of love" or something along those lines.

Can you quote his "error" if you're saying he taught error?

Thanks.

That's the one where he opened the door to NFP.