Quote from: Ladislaus

As per a citation on the SSPX.ORG website that they were attacking:

Quote

Salaverri, in his Sacrae Theologiae Summa (vol. I, 5th ed., Madrid, B.A.C.) distinguishes the following:

Extraordinary Infallible Papal Magisterium (no. 592 ff);

Ordinary Infallible Papal Magisterium (no. 645 ff);

Papal Magisterium that is mere authenticuм, that is, only "authentic" or "authorized" as regards the person himself, not as regards his infallibility (no. 659 ff).

So the authentic magisterium isn't infallible.

No, please read.  MERELY authentic Magisterium is not infallible.  Authentic Magisterium is the top level; within the Authentic Magisterium you can find infallible AND fallible teaching.  Problem is that the SSPX.ORG article the Dimonds were attacking got lazy and kept referring to the MERELY authentic Magisterium as just the authentic Magisterium.

At the end, though, the argument is just over definitions and semantics; you had the Dimond brothers arguing that the infallible Magisterium was infallible (because they defined authentic Magisterium as = the infallible Magisterium) and the SSPX arguing that the non-infallible Magisterium was non-infallible (because they defined authentic Magisterium as = the non-infallible Magisterium).  So this was a 60-minute video arguing over nothing more than the definition of a word.

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Bellator Dei

It is not possible for the Teaching Authority of the Church to teach error.

This statement is just plain false; SVism has perpetuated this stupidity far too long now.  Even the Dimonds admit that there can be errors in the Magisterium.  NO CATHOLIC THEOLOGIAN has EVER taught that there cannot be any error in the Magisterium.

How is it possible for the TEACHING AUTHORITY of the Church to teach error?


   

Only the INFALLIBLE teaching authority of the Church cannot teach error.  There's a mental malfunction that resulted from SVism which doesn't understand the Vatican I definition.  It's a false and extreme counter-reaction to R&Rism which would allow for even the teaching of an Ecuмenical Council and the Church's Universal Discipline to have failed and to have taught grave / substantial error.

Is Pius XII's "Allocution to Midwives" infallible?

Quote from: Ladislaus

Only the INFALLIBLE teaching authority of the Church cannot teach error.

Yes, that is absolutely correct!! The Extraordinary (Solemn) and Ordinary Universal Magisterium (BOTH Authentic) are free from error.  So, it is NOT possible for the INFALLIBLE TEACHING AUTHORITY of the Catholic Church to actively teach error.

Fixed it for you.

Quote from: Bellator Dei

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Bellator Dei

It is not possible for the Teaching Authority of the Church to teach error.

This statement is just plain false; SVism has perpetuated this stupidity far too long now.  Even the Dimonds admit that there can be errors in the Magisterium.  NO CATHOLIC THEOLOGIAN has EVER taught that there cannot be any error in the Magisterium.

How is it possible for the TEACHING AUTHORITY of the Church to teach error?


   

Only the INFALLIBLE teaching authority of the Church cannot teach error.  There's a mental malfunction that resulted from SVism which doesn't understand the Vatican I definition.  It's a false and extreme counter-reaction to R&Rism which would allow for even the teaching of an Ecuмenical Council and the Church's Universal Discipline to have failed and to have taught grave / substantial error.

Is Pius XII's "Allocution to Midwives" infallible?

I'm not overly familiar with that Allocution. I know Piux XII said one could be justified by an "act of love" or something along those lines.

Can you quote his "error" if you're saying he taught error?

Thanks.

Quote from: Ladislaus

Then what are you talking about?  That Allocution is part of Pius XII's Authentic Magisterium.

Huh...  So each pope has his own magisterium throughout the duration of his pontificate?  

No, each Pope exercises the Magisterium while he's pope.

Quote from: misericordianos

I'm not overly familiar with that Allocution. I know Piux XII said one could be justified by an "act of love" or something along those lines.

Can you quote his "error" if you're saying he taught error?

Thanks.

That's the one where he opened the door to NFP.

Oh, ok, different issue.

Quote from: Bellator Dei

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Bellator Dei

It is not possible for the Teaching Authority of the Church to teach error.

This statement is just plain false; SVism has perpetuated this stupidity far too long now.  Even the Dimonds admit that there can be errors in the Magisterium.  NO CATHOLIC THEOLOGIAN has EVER taught that there cannot be any error in the Magisterium.

How is it possible for the TEACHING AUTHORITY of the Church to teach error?


   

Only the INFALLIBLE teaching authority of the Church cannot teach error.  There's a mental malfunction that resulted from SVism which doesn't understand the Vatican I definition.  It's a false and extreme counter-reaction to R&Rism which would allow for even the teaching of an Ecuмenical Council and the Church's Universal Discipline to have failed and to have taught grave / substantial error.

Is Pius XII's "Allocution to Midwives" infallible?

Vatican I Council declared specific conditions for infallibility. In the case of Pope:

1. He uses his supreme apostolic authority in the exercise of his office as teacher of all Christians

and

2. He defines a doctrine,

and

3. Concerning faith and morals

and

4. to be held by the universal Church.  

If any of these conditions are lacking, infallibility is not engaged and error is possible. So even if the Pope is teaching regarding faith and morals, he can err when teaching a private theologian and he can also err in official papal docuмents but he cannot err when defining a doctrine for the Universal Church ex-Cathedra.

Quote from: Cantarella

3. Ordinary teaching on faith and morals -> Faithful are to adhere to these with religious assent (which is different from the assent of Faith (assensus fidei) of #1 and #2) (This is where the merely Ordinary Magisterium is)

4. Ordinary prudential teachings on disciplinary matters ->These include routine publications of the various organs of the Holy See or the dioceses. These may differ according to circuмstances of time and place. An external assent is due to the teachings of this category but the possibility of error entering into this level of teaching is stronger than with #3. (This is probably where Pius XII Allocution to Midwives is)

Sounds very post Vatican IIish....

What are your sources/references for these types of magisterial teachings?

This is all codified in the Code of Canon Law and in the Holy See's standard Profession of Faith made by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Don't be so ready to dismiss it just because it does not have a "magic" date pre- 1962. Please don't fall into that error of "fiftiesim" so common in traditionalists that if something is not dated before Vatican II is necessarily bad or vice-versa. It prevents you from forming an objective discernment. The Church did not defect overnight. If you have a real objection to it, you can read the full docuмent here and also in the Doctrinal Commentary on the Concluding Formula of the Professio Fidei, and we can discuss your objections.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/docuмents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_1998_professio-fidei_en.html

The relevant Canons are 750, 598, 1436.

If you notice, there are three types of magisterial statement and three different levels of authoritative teaching. The four category does not appear there, but there are theologians who have identified that 4 category. If you are interested, you can read more about this 4th category here:

Richard R. Gaillardetz, Teaching With Authority: A Theology of the Magisterium in the Church, Theology and Life Series.