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Author Topic: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall  (Read 33349 times)

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Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
« Reply #90 on: May 17, 2022, 08:32:29 AM »
And then there's the nonsense about how they're "fake" religious.  What does that mean these days?  All Traditional religious are technically fake religious.  No one is canonically approved where they would be considered official religious in normal times of the Church.  I give them the same respect as I do to other Traditional religious.
That's a very good point. Endless respect is offered to the trad religious as long as they adhere to some "official" order, but very little to MHFM who are accused of being fake Benedictines when literally all trad religious vows these days are nothing more than personal vows. It's the same inconsistency where some will call Vigano "Archbishop" but then refuse to call some sede bishops "Bishop" when they doubt the orders of both.

MHFM does honestly far more good through preaching and apologetics than most of the trad clergy out there because of their unrelenting orthodoxy. And it is far from unheard of for lay-religious to do this (the Franciscans, for starters) After watching the video in the OP, and seeing the St. Bellarmine quote, I actually have a better understanding of why they are forceful about pointing out heretics. This doesn't excuse their lack of charity by telling people not to pray for souls such as Bp. Dolan, or exaggerating someone's apparent heresy or apostasy as "radical" or what have you. So they need prayers in that regard, and you do see a softening of this with Dr. Marshall.

Last night I came across an article which contains some insight into their view of heretics on material/formal grounds:


Quote
Material Heretic vs. Formal Heretic

Some confuse this issue unnecessarily by employing the term “material heretic.”  Some of the people who have realized John Paul II’s major contradictions to Catholic teaching argue that John Paul II is merely a “material heretic”, not a real “formal heretic.”  “Material heretic” is a term used by theologians to describe a Catholic erring in good faith regarding some Church teaching, who has not denied it deliberately.  The only way that one can be a “material heretic” is by being unaware that the position that he holds is contrary to the teaching of the Church.  Such a person would change his position immediately upon being informed of the Church’s teaching on the matter.  Thus, a so-called “material heretic” is not a heretic at all, but rather a confused Catholic who denies nothing of that which he knows the Church to have taught.  The fact that a so-called “material heretic” is not a heretic is proven by the fact that a so-called “material heretic” does not cease to be part of the Church; and we have already proven that all heretics cease to be members of the Church.  Furthermore, a so-called “material heretic” (an erring Catholic) does not bring down on his head eternal punishment for denying the faith; and all heretics bring down on their heads eternal punishment for denying the faith.

Pope St. Celestine I, Council of Ephesus, 431: “… ALL HERETICS corrupt the true expressions of the Holy Spirit with their own evil minds and they draw down on their own heads an inextinguishable flame.”

A material heretic, therefore, is not a heretic, but a Catholic who is innocently mistaken about some Church teaching.  Hence, those who claim that John Paul II is unaware of the all of the dogmas that he denies, and is therefore only a quote “material heretic” (in other words, he is a mistaken Catholic) are not only arguing that which is absurd, but that which is IMPOSSIBLE.  It is impossible that John Paul II is only a so-called “material heretic” for three reasons:

Number 1) It is a fact that Antipope John Paul II knows of the many dogmas of the Church which he denies.  For example, in the 1999 agreement with the Lutheran Church on Justification, approved by John Paul II, John Paul II agreed that the Council of Trent no longer applies.

Vatican-Lutheran Agreement on the Doctrine of Justification, approved by John Paul II: “# 13.  IN LIGHT OF THIS CONSENSUS, THE CORRESPONDING DOCTRINAL CONDEMNATIONS OF THE 16TH CENTURY [i.e., the canons of the Council of Trent] DO NOT APPLY TO TODAY’S PARTNER.” (L’Osservatore Romano, Special Insert, Joint Declaration of the Doctrine of Justification, November 24, 1999, #13)

It goes without saying that he cannot be unaware of the Council of Trent if he holds that it no longer applies.  This, among other things, makes the claim that Antipope John Paul II is only a material heretic impossible.  In fact, John Paul II speaks 14 languages fluently, and has spoken and written intelligently on scholarly subjects more than most people would ever dream.  The amount of material that he has produced is actually staggering.  To assert that he is unaware of the simplest Church teachings that he denies is false and ridiculous in the highest degree.

Number 2) It is impossible for Antipope John Paul II to be only a “material heretic” or a mistaken Catholic because – supposing for a moment that he were unaware of the multitudes of dogmas which he denies (which, as we have stated, is not true) – being a bishop and a man who claims to be the Pope, he is bound to have learned them.  Therefore, there is no excuse for his being unaware of the fundamental Church dogmas which he denies.

Number 3) It is impossible that Antipope John Paul II is merely a material heretic because there are certain things that every adult must hold by a necessity of means in order to be a Catholic, and Antipope John Paul II does not hold those things.  To name just a few things: every adult Catholic must believe in the Trinity; that there is only one true Church; that there is only one true faith.  An adult Catholic must also believe that the true Church must be believed and that all non-Catholic religions are false.

John Paul II rejects that there is only one true Church and one true faith, as we will show; he rejects that the Catholic Church should be believed by non-Catholics, by saying that we should not try to convert non-Catholics, as we will show; and he rejects the fact that non-Catholic religions are false, as we will show.  It is not possible for a person who has reached the age of reason to believe these things and still be a Catholic, because such a person does not believe in essential mysteries that must be believed by those who possess the true faith.

https://schismatic-home-aloner.com/anti-pope-john-paul-ii/





Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
« Reply #91 on: May 17, 2022, 08:33:16 AM »
When Vigano calls out Benedict XVI, I'll start to take him seriously.

Another statement made from ignorance by a person who hasn't read what +Vigano has written. He HAS criticized BXVI, JP2, Paul VI ... all of them.


Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
« Reply #92 on: May 17, 2022, 08:36:13 AM »
Another statement made from ignorance by a person who hasn't read what +Vigano has written. He HAS criticized BXVI, JP2, Paul VI ... all of them.
He literally came out and said we need to toss out Vatican II entirely. Not even the SSPX says that anymore.

I only brought up the YouTube algorithm as a point of note, this isn't to say +Vigano is "in on it" or anything. At worst TPTB may be using his position to divide and conquer Catholics, but, as we know, that will not work out in their favor given his recent swing to Catholic orthodoxy.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
« Reply #93 on: May 17, 2022, 08:43:58 AM »
He literally came out and said we need to toss out Vatican II entirely. Not even the SSPX says that anymore.

SSPX says that V2 is 95% good and needs a few corrections (along the lines of Bishop Schneider).

+Vigano recently said there should be an investigation into whether Bergoglio is legitimate.  He was dead set against the jab and calling out the conspiracy of the Plandemic.  His original June 9 letter (his anti-V2 manifesto) to Bishop Schneider called out all the V2 papal claimants, including Benedict XVI and said that the entire thing needed to be scrubbed.  He recently came out in favor of the pre-Pius XII Holy Week.

So for those who claim he's some kind of controlled opposition, I insist that you provide an explanation of what exactly they're accomplishing.  Cui bono?  He's keeping people from going full-blown SV?  Nobody who wasn't against SVism in the first place.  If anything, he's drawing people mired in the conservative wing of the Conciliar Church to the right.  So why would the conspirators think that's a good idea?

I can easily see +Fellay, +Schneider, and +Voris being controlled opposition ... but I have yet to see a credible charge against +Vigano nor a convincing explanation of what they're trying to accomplishing by raising up a figure like +Vigano.

Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
« Reply #94 on: May 17, 2022, 09:03:25 AM »
Nobody can bend heretics into human pretzels like the Dimond brothers :laugh1: