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Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Ladislaus on May 16, 2022, 08:01:33 AM

Title: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Ladislaus on May 16, 2022, 08:01:33 AM
I bring this up because I was pleasantly surprised by the more charitable and softer tone that the Dimond Brothers took with Taylor Marshall.

https://endtimes.video/taylor-marshall/

I've long defended them, that they do a tremendous amount of good and are right about (almost IMO) every issue, with some minor disagreements, but what has hurt them and has hurt the good they are capable of doing has been the bitter tone, the denunciation of people as pertinacious heretics even if they are obviously deceived or confused.  It's clear that someone like a Taylor Marshall has the Catholic faith and if they're wrong about some things (and he is), it's understandable and not due to any kind of formal errors.  These times are incredibly confusing.  I've been praying for the Dimond Brothers that their bitter zeal could be softened, and that they rein in some of their accusations of heresy when it's clear that people are confused.  I can see the temptation to get bitter when you're constantly being ruthlessly attacked and you see the truth attacked.

During this video, I don't recall them ever denouncing Taylor Marshall as a heretic.  They use terms like deceived, confused, in contradiction, etc. ... and all that is true.  But it's clear that if someone like that is in error, it's material error, and it's very understandable given the diabolical confusion of our times.  Litmus test for a pertinacious heretic is whether if the Magisterium were to formally teach something, they would immediately accept it.

There were in fact a few quotes from Marshall which I do believe were materially heretical, such as when he said that the Church became corrupt after the persecutioins (along the line of what many Prots hold), and I was ducking and waiting for the charge of heresy from the Dimond Brothers (and there would be some ground to it for those quotes) ... but it never came.  They concluded with the impression that Marshall is confused, in contradiction, and deceived.

I applaud the Dimond Brothers for this video ... and I think most of their videos are terrific, but the tone here was welcome and pleasant.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 09:05:17 AM
I think they seem to take a harsher tone with those who are more obstinate in their errors, or, who have the training and authority (i.e trad clergy) to know better.

It's a good video. I think Dr. Marshall is getting closer to the truth as time goes on, so we should pray for him. And, admittedly, the more I've reflected on their material, I also think the Dimonds might be closer to the truth than anyone else on the interpretation of the current Crisis as the fulfillment of the Apocalypse. JPII was an antichrist, no doubt, THE Antichrist, perhaps, I find myself in agreement with them the more I've reflected on it. But, I can be wrong.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Ladislaus on May 16, 2022, 09:13:57 AM
I think they seem to take a harsher tone with those who are more obstinate in their errors, or, who have the training and authority (i.e trad clergy) to know better.

It's a good video. I think Dr. Marshall is getting closer to the truth as time goes on, so we should pray for him. And, admittedly, the more I've reflected on their material, I also think the Dimonds might be closer to the truth than anyone else on the interpretation of the current Crisis as the fulfillment of the Apocalypse. JPII was an antichrist, no doubt, THE Antichrist, perhaps, I find myself in agreement with them the more I've reflected on it. But, I can be wrong.

Yes, I'm convinced that JP2 was AN Antichrist, some kind of forerunner.  But their opinion about him being THE Antichrist, that's not a matter of doctrine, so I don't really care too much about it.  It's interesting to debate and speculate about, but not that important.

They also released an update about the Magicians (that has about 40 minutes of extra video since their last release), and I'm looking forward to that.  It's an amazing video, and their intent is to demonstrate to people that there is a real invisible world out there.  Now, the one concern is that people seeing it might be tempted to join these magicians, since the Dimonds are actually revealing the source of their magic ... demonic spirits.  But for those who have the faith, it really makes the existence of demons very real.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Ladislaus on May 16, 2022, 09:15:55 AM
And I agree that Dr. Marshall is getting closer.  After the whole Pachamama thing, that caused him to reflect that, "hey, JP2 did the same thing and more".  He's slowly started to re-examine all the V2 papal claimants.  Patrick Coffin has come out Bennyvacatist (I doubt he'll be welcome on EWTN going forward).  Bergoglio has done a lot to actually expose the entire Vatican II period.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Pax Vobis on May 16, 2022, 09:20:49 AM
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But their opinion about him being THE Antichrist, that's not a matter of doctrine
:jester:  Nor is it a matter of fact.  It would be like "speculating" on a prophecy that held in the latter days there would be a great saintly priest, with the stigmata, that converted Islam and then making a video how this applies to St Padre Pio.  :facepalm:  But Padre Pio didn't convert Islam, one would counter, and he's been dead for multiple decades.  "Oh", they would say, "it's still possible, through his intercession."  :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:


JP2 was not the antichrist.  An 8th grader can read the cliffs notes on the Apocalypse and come to this conclusion.  If one further reads the cliffs notes from the Church Fathers, they will see this theory is so crazy it's almost in the realm of heresy.  As smart as the Dimond brothers are, why they keep talking about this is very concerning (it makes me question their sanity)...unless it's about $/sales.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Jaycie on May 16, 2022, 09:22:37 AM
. JPII was an antichrist, no doubt, THE Antichrist, perhaps, I find myself in agreement with them the more I've reflected on it. But, I can be wrong.
JP2 may have been AN antichrist but I nominate his predecessor Paul 6th as THE antichrist, the worst by far of a very bad lot of New Church "popes"!
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: dxcat40 on May 16, 2022, 09:23:32 AM
https://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2020/04/infiltration-who-is-really-doing-it.html

Excerpts:
Quote
• June 2006  Marshall writes in his post, My New Son - Jude Ambrose Josemaria, “Josemaria after St Josemaria Escriva, the founder of Opus Dei. I have gained a deep devotion to this holy man and his writings. I attend daily Mass at the St Josemaria Chapel (at the Catholic Information Center) and my boss (and father and friend) is a priest of Opus Dei. Also, my son was born on June 26, the feast day of St Josemaria.” https://web.archive.org/web/20130506164425/http:/www.taylormarshall.com/2006/06/my-new-son-jude-ambrose-josemaria.html (https://web.archive.org/web/20130506164425/http:/www.taylormarshall.com/2006/06/my-new-son-jude-ambrose-josemaria.html)

• October 2009  Marshall writes, “Did the founder of Opus Dei prophesy the Pope's Anglican Ordinariate? In a way, yes. According to Msgr. Bill Stetson, Saint Josemaria Escriva, the founder of Opus Dei, visited England back in 1958. He frequented many Anglican Churches and was keen on rekindling fervor in England for the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. While visiting an Anglican Church, Saint Josemaria Escriva said in Spanish, "If we don't lend them a hand, the Christian Faith will die away in fifty years." Well fifty years later (2008) the Anglican Communion became fractured through the ordination of active ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs and by the general erosion of Christian orthodoxy. Fifty-one years later (2009) the Holy Father "lends a hand" by establishing the Anglican personal ordinariate. Pretty amazing if you ask me. Saint Josemaria had it just about right.” https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHZzudaWwAAA5QC?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHZzudaWwAAA5QC?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)  Original link https://taylormarshall.com/2009/10/did-founder-of-opus-dei-prophecy-popes.html (https://taylormarshall.com/2009/10/did-founder-of-opus-dei-prophecy-popes.html)

• April 2014  Marshall writes, “I'm about to go to the Dallas Opus Dei recollection. Anyone else going tonight?”  https://www.facebook.com/DrTaylorMarshall/posts/415362745267756 (https://www.facebook.com/DrTaylorMarshall/posts/415362745267756)  And in the comments writes “I'm not a member. Just a groupie.” Was the recollection at the Wingren Study Center? https://wingrencenter.org/ (https://wingrencenter.org/)

• June 2015  In 2015 Taylor Marshall became a faculty member for The Rome Experience for seminarians. The Rome Experience, “is inspired by the thought and work of St. Josemaria Escriva, founder of Opus Dei” https://web.archive.org/web/20170909200100/https://taylormarshall.com/events/rome-experience (https://web.archive.org/web/20170909200100/https://taylormarshall.com/events/rome-experience)

• October 2016  Marshall writes post, Taylor Marshall is Part Jєωιѕн as it turns out  https://web.archive.org/web/20170613222337/https://taylormarshall.com/2016/10/taylor-marshall-is-part-Jєωιѕн-as-it-turns-out.html (https://web.archive.org/web/20170613222337/https://taylormarshall.com/2016/10/taylor-marshall-is-part-Jєωιѕн-as-it-turns-out.html) In this post, “My uncle recently had a genealogical blood test that identified him as 19.3% αѕнкenαzι Jєωιѕн…which makes me 9.65% Jєωιѕн. [...] So this explains a few Jєωιѕн things in my life [...] So there you have it. My inner Jєω has been discreetly speaking all along.  As usual he removes this post.

• June 2018  The practical wisdom of St. Josemaría Escrivá is posted on the Troops of Saint George website. https://troopsofsaintgeorge.org/the-practical-wisdom-of-st-josemaria-escriva/ (https://troopsofsaintgeorge.org/the-practical-wisdom-of-st-josemaria-escriva/)

• October 2019  The great purge of Marshall’s social medias, particularly focused on twitter and his website. Twitter in September before the purge (20,100 tweets)  https://web.archive.org/web/20190927144738/https://twitter.com/TaylorRMarshall (https://web.archive.org/web/20190927144738/https://twitter.com/TaylorRMarshall) & twitter in November (771 tweets) https://web.archive.org/web/20191110060828/https:/twitter.com/TaylorRMarshall (https://web.archive.org/web/20191110060828/https:/twitter.com/TaylorRMarshall)  His website removes all mentions of Josemaria Escriba and most of Opus Dei. This happens the week before the ‘Pachamama Splash’ carried out by Alexander Tschugguel (Opus Dei connected if not a member, marriage instruction and married by Bp. Athanasius Schneider). The Pachamama statues were interestingly taken from the Church of Santa Maria in Traspontina. This church is the seat of Carndinal Marc Ouellet (former Archbishop of Quebec) who is a strong supporter of Opus Dei. https://www.opusdei.org/fr-ca/article/homelie-de-m-le-cardinal-marc-ouellet-archeveque-de-quebec/ (https://www.opusdei.org/fr-ca/article/homelie-de-m-le-cardinal-marc-ouellet-archeveque-de-quebec/) Two sites/people broke the story of ‘Pachamama Splash’ one being LifeSiteNews, Controversial Amazon Synod statues seized and thrown into the Tiber River (FULL VIDEO) https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-controversial-amazon-synod-statue-siezed-and-thrown-into-the-tiber-river-full-video (https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-controversial-amazon-synod-statue-siezed-and-thrown-into-the-tiber-river-full-video) and the other being Taylor Marshall, The Idols of Pachamama in Rome Are Destroyed and Cast Into the Tiber River https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_loUTdDJT6Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_loUTdDJT6Y)  Could go on about the Opus Dei connections but this should suffice.

• No date  Not certain of when he started his Patreon but Taylor Marshall has 794 people a month whom give him money. Donation levels start at $7 and move up to $15, $25, $50, $100, $1,000 per month or one can give him a giant donation through a custom pledge. https://www.patreon.com/join/drtaylormarshall (https://www.patreon.com/join/drtaylormarshall)  This is how he can afford to make all those podcasts and youtube shows.

You can believe what you like about him, but linked above is a handy list and it only goes deeper if you actually do some research into Taylor Marshall and Opus Dei.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 09:38:23 AM
JP2 was not the antichrist.  An 8th grader can read the cliffs notes on the Apocalypse and come to this conclusion.  If one further reads the cliffs notes from the Church Fathers, they will see this theory is so crazy it's almost in the realm of heresy. 
Have you actually watched their material to see their argument? Dismissing it as an "8th grade can...come to this conclusion" isn't giving them a fair assessment when a lot of people these days, including trad Catholics, have Protestant understandings of the Apocalypse. I myself have fallen into this error time and time again.

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As smart as the Dimond brothers are, why they keep talking about this is very concerning (it makes me question their sanity)...unless it's about $/sales.
I completely disagree. It's public knowledge that they attained a couple million years ago from a donor who took them to court and they release their materials for free or at-cost. I don't at all buy that they do this for money
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 09:39:37 AM
JP2 may have been AN antichrist but I nominate his predecessor Paul 6th as THE antichrist, the worst by far of a very bad lot of New Church "popes"!
I'm not convinced, there's far more evidence to suggest that JPII was the image of the Beast (revived pagan rome) who was wounded and survived (1981 assassination attempt, and subsequent knife attack in 1982) than anything about the wicked Montini
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Ladislaus on May 16, 2022, 09:59:13 AM
I think they're all precursors, just like the false High Priests of the Maccabees before Christ Himself came into the world.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 10:06:41 AM
I think they're all precursors, just like the false High Priests of the Maccabees before Christ Himself came into the world.
I think that's agreeable. If he isn't the Man of Sin, as they opine, then he is the most wicked of precursors. The High Priests theory certainly supports the new pagan kings theory proposed simultaneously with their belief of JPII as the Image of the Beast and the Man of Sin.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Pax Vobis on May 16, 2022, 10:26:49 AM
Guys, if you say that JP2 (or anyone who is dead) is THE antichrist it shows you have no idea what you’re talking about.  It’s not even up for debate.

Scripture / Church Fathers / Saints are very clear on what the antichrist will do - setup a world govt, openly persecute the Church, he will kill the 2 witnesses, “rise from the dead” (fake miracles), and then die when attempting to “ascend to heaven”.  Oh, and the Jєωs will worship him as Christ.  And many, many other things (ie mark of the beast).  This is LITERAL stuff, not figurative.  

If you think anyone has done all of this already, then I am speechless and I question your sanity.  :confused:
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 10:42:42 AM
Guys, if you say that JP2 (or anyone who is dead) is THE antichrist it shows you have no idea what you’re talking about.  It’s not even up for debate.

Scripture / Church Fathers / Saints are very clear on what the antichrist will do - setup a world govt, openly persecute the Church, he will kill the 2 witnesses, “rise from the dead” (fake miracles), and then die when attempting to “ascend to heaven”.  Oh, and the Jєωs will worship him as Christ.  And many, many other things (ie mark of the beast).  This is LITERAL stuff, not figurative. 

If you think anyone has done all of this already, then I am speechless and I question your sanity.  :confused:
So you haven't watched any of their materials on why they believe this then

Be objective. Go watch what they have to say, and then come back and comment on our sanity. I'm not saying you must agree with them, but it's clear you don't know what they even believe on the matter.

https://youtu.be/u02sNHRNLCk

Playlist
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLik3TBkYM2u83-6lMxtniVV-H5pC8AT62
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: EWPJ on May 16, 2022, 10:43:39 AM
Guys, if you say that JP2 (or anyone who is dead) is THE antichrist it shows you have no idea what you’re talking about.  It’s not even up for debate.

Scripture / Church Fathers / Saints are very clear on what the antichrist will do - setup a world govt, openly persecute the Church, he will kill the 2 witnesses, “rise from the dead” (fake miracles), and then die when attempting to “ascend to heaven”.  Oh, and the Jєωs will worship him as Christ.  And many, many other things (ie mark of the beast).  This is LITERAL stuff, not figurative. 

If you think anyone has done all of this already, then I am speechless and I question your sanity.  :confused:
Thank you!  I've been saying this as well.  I don't know how anyone can fall for JPII being THE Anti-Christ.  I know people who have tried to tell Dimonds that it's not possible based on Scripture, Church Fathers and Saints, and other things but they will not relent. And yes personally I've watched all the Dimond stuff about it and just rolled my eyes.  If you've read enough Church Fathers you will completely dismiss Dimonds on the issue.  Protestants and others can also make convincing arguments that The Church is the Whore of Babylon but we know based on Scripture, Chruch Fathers, and Tradition, that this is just not true.  
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Pax Vobis on May 16, 2022, 11:01:08 AM
Where was JPs mark of the beast?  I guessed I missed that part of the 80s/90s where I had to have it to buy/sell?  Where were the 2 witnesses who preached to the world and worked miracles?  When did JP2 conquer armies and become ruler of the world?  Etc etc etc

He didn’t.  So he wasn’t the antichrist.  I don’t have to watch some video to know this.  It’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. 
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Jaycie on May 16, 2022, 11:16:05 AM
.  Protestants and others can also make convincing arguments that The Church is the Whore of Babylon but we know based on Scripture, Chruch Fathers, and Tradition, that this is just not true. 

Maybe the Vat.2  new church is  "the Whore of Babylon"? 
New church is not the Catholic Church.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 11:21:18 AM
Where was JPs mark of the beast?  I guessed I missed that part of the 80s/90s where I had to have it to buy/sell?  Where were the 2 witnesses who preached to the world and worked miracles?  When did JP2 conquer armies and become ruler of the world?  Etc etc etc

He didn’t.  So he wasn’t the antichrist.  I don’t have to watch some video to know this.  It’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.
You do if you want to understand the argument they propose, since a video is how it's presented. Just dismissing it outright without inquiring as to why they say this, and how they support it, isn't being objective and I have no reason to continue responding to you on this subject until you do.

Maybe the Vat.2  new church is  "the Whore of Babylon"?
New church is not the Catholic Church.
Exactly. And that is precisely what they teach in identifying the Whore as the new church directed out of pagan Rome.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: LeDeg on May 16, 2022, 11:27:25 AM
It’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.
Nah. Trad clergy believing that salvation exists outside the Church trumps it.

I agree with Lad. If they get it wrong on JPII, so what. They get far more right than anyone else out there. 
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Jaycie on May 16, 2022, 11:40:18 AM
. And that is precisely what they teach in identifying the Whore as the new church directed out of pagan Rome.
I didn't know they identify 'new church'  as  'the whore'. (I haven't watched many of their videos)  but the way "new church"  is going,  it seems to be turning into the "Whore of Babylon"  right before our eyes!
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 12:03:34 PM
Nah. Trad clergy believing that salvation exists outside the Church trumps it.
Amen to that.

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I agree with Lad. If they get it wrong on JPII, so what. They get far more right than anyone else out there.

They themselves aren't even saying it is anything more than their position on the identity of the Antichrist. I am only saying that I think that their selection of JPII as the Antichrist is closer to prophesy than any other potential candidate (see: Bill Gates, Mario Draghi, George Soros, Napoleon, Hitler, etc.), living or dead, outside of Nero and the pagan Emperors themselves. They could be wrong, and I could be wrong for agreeing with them on many points.

Also, while they haven't done a full analysis of Apocalypse 11 (the two witnesses), they have mentioned that some in Church history have suggested that this may be symbolic of Ss. Peter and Paul:

Quote
Some may ask: "If Rome is the 'great city,' why does Apocalypse 11:8 say that the great city is the place where Our Lord was crucified, which is Jerusalem?"  The answer is that it doesn’t actually say that:

Apoc. 11:8 - “[the two witnesses] shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, even where their Lord was crucified.”

Notice that, contrary to what some have claimed, the Apocalypse doesn’t clearly state that the two witnesses (which some believe describe Peter and Paul) are killed in the city where Our Lord was crucified.  Notice that the passage could very well mean that the great city is called Sodom and Egypt even where their Lord was crucified.  In other words, the great city, Rome, is referred to as “Sodom” and “Egypt” as far away as Jerusalem (where their Lord was crucified) because of its immoralities!  This makes sense when we consider that Rome was notorious for its corruption.  Hence, this passage doesn’t clearly prove, as some have suggested, that Jerusalem must be the great city.

https://vaticancatholic.com/apocalypse/

For all we know, Abp. Lefebvre and Bp. de Castro Mayer could have been the prophesied two witnesses, who died spiritually by initially accepting JPII's proposal for the consecrations, but then rose again by defying them. God only knows.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 12:07:05 PM
I didn't know they identify 'new church'  as  'the whore'. (I haven't watched many of their videos)  but the way "new church"  is going,  it seems to be turning into the "Whore of Babylon"  right before our eyes!
If I remember, they lay out that theory in this video
https://youtu.be/SPs7jdfaib0

Otherwise, you can read the following article if you don't want to spend 40 minutes on a video
https://vaticancatholic.com/apocalypse/
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Pax Vobis on May 16, 2022, 12:14:07 PM
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You do if you want to understand the argument they propose, since a video is how it's presented. Just dismissing it outright without inquiring as to why they say this, and how they support it, isn't being objective and I have no reason to continue responding to you on this subject until you do.
I've watched one of their videos before.  I'm dismissing it because you can pick up any book which quotes the Church Fathers/Scripture on the Apocalypse and they are WAY off.  The Diamonds are arguing JP2 based on symbolism and figurative language.  But the Church Fathers tells us, infallibly, which parts of the Apocalypse will happen LITERALLY and which are figurative.  The Diamonds are way off.



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For all we know, Abp. Lefebvre and Bp. de Castro Mayer could have been the prophesied two witnesses, who died spiritually by initially accepting JPII's proposal for the consecrations, but then rose again by defying them. God only knows.
Yes, they could have been prefigurements of the 2 witnesses but they are not the ACTUAL 2 witnesses.  Go read scripture.  It tells us that the 2 witnesses will preach all over the world, work miracles, be martyred in the streets of jerusalem/rome (I can't remember) and lie there 3 days for all the world to see.  Then God will resurrect them, people will convert and on the story goes.

This is what will ACTUALLY happen.  This is not symbolism.  Has this happened yet?  No.  Therefore...JP2 isn't the antichrist nor are +ABL/+Meyer the witnesses.  The Diamonds are making the complex topic of Apocalypse MORE complex by ignoring the few literal facts that the Church has given us.

Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 12:30:15 PM
I've watched one of their videos before.  I'm dismissing it because you can pick up any book which quotes the Church Fathers/Scripture on the Apocalypse and they are WAY off.  The Diamonds are arguing JP2 based on symbolism and figurative language.  But the Church Fathers tells us, infallibly, which parts of the Apocalypse will happen LITERALLY and which are figurative.  The Diamonds are way off.


Yes, they could have been prefigurements of the 2 witnesses but they are not the ACTUAL 2 witnesses.  Go read scripture.  It tells us that the 2 witnesses will preach all over the world, work miracles, be martyred in the streets of jerusalem/rome (I can't remember) and lie there 3 days for all the world to see.  Then God will resurrect them, people will convert and on the story goes.

This is what will ACTUALLY happen.  This is not symbolism.  Has this happened yet?  No.  Therefore...JP2 isn't the antichrist nor are +ABL/+Meyer the witnesses.  The Diamonds are making the complex topic of Apocalypse MORE complex by ignoring the few literal facts that the Church has given us.
No. They don't. They utilize both the literal and figurative sense (for example, JPII being wounded mortally and then healed is a literal interpretation of Apoc. 13:3) You would know that if you would actually hear their arguments before immediately dismissing them as "way off" because you're incredulous about JPII being the Antichrist.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Pax Vobis on May 16, 2022, 12:34:30 PM
When did +ABL/+Meyer get martyred in the streets, lie there for 3 days and then get resurrected?  This will literally happen.

When in the 80s/90s was there a mark of the beast which everyone had to have to buy/sell?  This will literally happen.

Those are simply 2 questions that don't apply to JP2.  I could list off about 20 more.

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for example, JPII being wounded mortally and then healed is a literal interpretation of Apoc. 13:3
Just because JP2 *might* fulfill 1 of 25 details that are infallible doesn't mean we can speculate.  If JP2 doesn't fulfill 25 of 25 (to use an example) and not even the obvious ones (i.e. he will lead armies and rule the world) then he isn't him.  
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Jaycie on May 16, 2022, 12:51:16 PM
If I remember, they lay out that theory in this video
https://youtu.be/SPs7jdfaib0

Otherwise, you can read the following article if you don't want to spend 40 minutes on a video
https://vaticancatholic.com/apocalypse/

Thank you, I will read the article. (I prefer reading to watching videos)
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Pax Vobis on May 16, 2022, 01:07:45 PM
The problem with the Diamond Bros is their analysis on heresies/doctrine are about 90% quotes from councils, saints with the lowest necessary 10% conclusions, because once you spend all your time researching and organizing quotes from history, the logical conclusions follow.  That's why their analysis on heresies/doctrine are so good - because it's not based on the Diamond Bros ideas; it's based on Church docuмents/quotes.  They are just organizing things.

If they would follow the same process for the Apocalypse, then their conclusions would be closer to the truth.  But for some reason, they use much, much more speculation on anti-christ, instead of quoting the Church Fathers/saints, who have written volumes and volumes on the topic already.  They are trying to re-invent the wheel.  This is why their conclusions are wrong. 
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Ladislaus on May 16, 2022, 01:16:35 PM
If I remember, they lay out that theory in this video

Otherwise, you can read the following article if you don't want to spend 40 minutes on a video
https://vaticancatholic.com/apocalypse/

I mean, there can be little doubt but that the Conciliar Church is the Whore of Babylon.  Description in Revelation fits it perfectly, in every detail.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: St Giles on May 16, 2022, 01:35:26 PM
I've watched one of their videos before.  I'm dismissing it because you can pick up any book which quotes the Church Fathers/Scripture on the Apocalypse and they are WAY off.  The Diamonds are arguing JP2 based on symbolism and figurative language.  But the Church Fathers tells us, infallibly, which parts of the Apocalypse will happen LITERALLY and which are figurative.  The Diamonds are way off.


Yes, they could have been prefigurements of the 2 witnesses but they are not the ACTUAL 2 witnesses.  Go read scripture.  It tells us that the 2 witnesses will preach all over the world, work miracles, be martyred in the streets of jerusalem/rome (I can't remember) and lie there 3 days for all the world to see.  Then God will resurrect them, people will convert and on the story goes.

This is what will ACTUALLY happen.  This is not symbolism.  Has this happened yet?  No.  Therefore...JP2 isn't the antichrist nor are +ABL/+Meyer the witnesses.  The Diamonds are making the complex topic of Apocalypse MORE complex by ignoring the few literal facts that the Church has given us.
You need to watch many of their videos. It's time consuming, I know, but the speed up feature helps. The reason why you need to watch many of their videos is because they don't tie up all the loose ends in one, and though there may be much repetition across a few of their videos, each contains some important bits of information that are essential to their whole explanation of the apocalypse. You may find that what they include in a somewhat unrelated video (at least title wise) should have been included in other videos.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Cryptinox on May 16, 2022, 01:47:50 PM
The Dimonds used to say Benedict XV was the first king
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Ladislaus on May 16, 2022, 01:53:10 PM
The Dimonds used to say Benedict XV was the first king

I believe it was Pius XI ... since the Lateran Treaty created the Vatican state in 1929.  That part makes some sense.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: LeDeg on May 16, 2022, 02:20:56 PM
I believe it was Pius XI ... since the Lateran Treaty created the Vatican state in 1929.  That part makes some sense.
Correct.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Pax Vobis on May 16, 2022, 02:21:48 PM
:facepalm:  I don’t need to watch a video to tell me that there’s not been a global dictator yet and also no mark of the beast.  This is just common sense. 
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 04:14:42 PM
:facepalm:  I don’t need to watch a video to tell me that there’s not been a global dictator yet and also no mark of the beast.  This is just common sense.
The Antichrist wouldn't be much of a deceiver if he came waving a flag saying that he is the Antichrist. There wouldn't be Scripture saying that the elect will be deceived (Matt. 24:24) or sent the operation of error to believe lies (2 Thess. 2:10) if we know exactly who he is when he comes. Nor would there be a false prophet (Apoc. 19:20) who fits the bill of Ratzinger and/or Bergoglio, to continue his false gospel after Antichrist dies.
https://vaticancatholic.com/thinking-logically-about-the-antichrist/

Given the nature of the Conciliar deception, it would be fitting that he would come as some worldly "Pope": he who has two horns like a lamb but speaks as a dragon (Apoc. 13:11). Not to mention Our Lady of La Sallette prophesied that Rome would become the seat of the Antichrist. Who, of worldly reknown, sits in Rome? The Pope. Who has been a king of Rome since Pius XI.

So please stop pretending that you know what they've said without even listening to them.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Cryptinox on May 16, 2022, 04:20:03 PM
I believe it was Pius XI ... since the Lateran Treaty created the Vatican state in 1929.  That part makes some sense.
USED TO. They did this when JP II was alive.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Pax Vobis on May 16, 2022, 05:05:07 PM
DigitalLogos,
You're not thinking this all the way through.  What is supposed to happen AFTER the antichrist is defeated by Christ's breath (which never happened to JP2, btw)?  After antichrist is defeated, then there is PEACE; and the Jєωs return to the Church.  And there is a period of restoration for the Church until Christ suddenly comes to end the world.

When was the period of peace/restoration of the church post JP2?  When did the Jєωs finally convert to the Church?

p.s. When was the 'mark of the beast' in the 80s/90s?  This is the most obvious error, yet you've not answered it.

I suggest you go read summaries of what the Church Fathers have said, and also other saints.  TAN has published a few small pamphlets on the topic.  Christ has not left us wondering what will happen in the later days...He has given us, through the Saints, a broad outline of what will happen, that we may not be deceived.  Those who know the truth won't be deceived, just like those who knew their Faith weren't deceived by V2.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 05:09:49 PM
USED TO. They did this when JP II was alive.
Doesn't anyone remember the dimonds claimed Benedict XV was the first king of the apocalypse then switched to Pius XI? lol 
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 05:17:25 PM
I'm not a Vatican 2ite, but this video by Mark is interesting. I don't agree with the JP II antichrist idea. What about apocalypse 11 & the 2 witnesses? They are going to be killed by antichrist and lay in the street for three days?    Shine On You Crazy Dimonds, Part I: MHFM's Literally R*tarded Eisegesis of Scripture - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE2yPTbxI4w&t=220s)
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 05:28:28 PM
The Dimonds used to say Benedict XV was the first king
You are correct. They change it to fit their antichrist idea. Scroll down to Most Holy Family Issue #2 page 18  Most "Holy" Family Monastery…A doctrine of Ambiguity, Condemnations and Haste (todayscatholicworld.com) (http://www.todayscatholicworld.com/dims-refuted.htm)
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 05:44:11 PM
DigitalLogos,
You're not thinking this all the way through.  What is supposed to happen AFTER the antichrist is defeated by Christ's breath (which never happened to JP2, btw)?  After antichrist is defeated, then there is PEACE; and the Jєωs return to the Church.  And there is a period of restoration for the Church until Christ suddenly comes to end the world.

When was the period of peace/restoration of the church post JP2?  When did the Jєωs finally convert to the Church?

p.s. When was the 'mark of the beast' in the 80s/90s?  This is the most obvious error, yet you've not answered it.

I suggest you go read summaries of what the Church Fathers have said, and also other saints.  TAN has published a few small pamphlets on the topic.  Christ has not left us wondering what will happen in the later days...He has given us, through the Saints, a broad outline of what will happen, that we may not be deceived.  Those who know the truth won't be deceived, just like those who knew their Faith weren't deceived by V2.
They address these things in the videos provided. Furthermore, they're proving that he is the Antichrist, not what comes immediately after, which still could be what you say nor do they deny that.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 05:44:56 PM
You are correct. They change it to fit their antichrist idea. Scroll down to Most Holy Family Issue #2 page 18  Most "Holy" Family Monastery…A doctrine of Ambiguity, Condemnations and Haste (todayscatholicworld.com) (http://www.todayscatholicworld.com/dims-refuted.htm)
I'm not a Vatican 2ite, but this video by Mark is interesting. I don't agree with the JP II antichrist idea. What about apocalypse 11 & the 2 witnesses? They are going to be killed by antichrist and lay in the street for three days?    Shine On You Crazy Dimonds, Part I: MHFM's Literally R*tarded Eisegesis of Scripture - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE2yPTbxI4w&t=220s)
Doesn't anyone remember the dimonds claimed Benedict XV was the first king of the apocalypse then switched to Pius XI? lol
You only come out of the woodwork when the Dimonds are spoken of. Get over your personal grudge.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 05:46:31 PM
USED TO. They did this when JP II was alive.

So they reassessed their thesis once it became apparent that Bergoglio is not one of the seven kings? So what? The timeline is undeniable once that was made clear.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 05:53:12 PM
Hi everyone, just make sure you reject bod and receive the sacraments from a valid priest, attend Mass & stay away from Vatican II. Do your best to stay in the state of grace. Who the antichrist is, is NOT dogma, so settle down. Yep, the dimonds were wrong. That's all.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 05:54:51 PM
So they reassessed their thesis once it became apparent that Bergoglio is not one of the seven kings? So what? The timeline is undeniable once that was made clear.
YEP! they have changed it a few times, can they ever admit they are wrong?
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 05:57:11 PM
Hi everyone, just make sure you reject bod and receive the sacraments from a valid priest, attend Mass & stay away from Vatican II. Do your best to stay in the state of grace. Who the antichrist is, is NOT dogma, so settle down. Yep, the dimonds were wrong. That's all.
I agree. It's not me getting outraged over this. I even said I didn't wholly accept their theory, just that he would be the most plausible character given what's prophesied in SCRIPTURE (not simply private revelations)

They're certainly right about the Conciliar church being the Whore of Babylon.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 06:03:28 PM
Hello again, the dimonds said the maitreya was the antichrist in the late 90's in their Biblical End Times prophecies video.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: bodeens on May 16, 2022, 06:04:04 PM
Lol at all of the haters piping up. This is part of why I bring up MHFM so much on this forum,  they are 95+% correct on everything but people look for every reason possible to drag them. Classic. I will keep promoting them where they speak the truth because I guarantee they have converted more people to traditional Catholicism than all members on here combined. Additionally I hope you all pray for them every night because they are definitively the best Catholic content creators right now. People should pause to think why they convert so many.

I can attest the Dimonds have strengthened my family's faith considerably with their books on UFOs, Padre Pio, their apologetics content and debates. God bless the Dimonds, I really hope in the future they will do more spirituality content but I understand there are just so many pressing matters.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Pax Vobis on May 16, 2022, 06:09:36 PM
Bodeens, i'm not a hater of MHFM.  I've read much of what the Diamonds have written, and it's very good....because it's based on doctrine.

They need to apply the same approach to the end times.  Otherwise they wouldn't make so many mistakes (which, in a small way, hurts their credibility). 
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 06:12:04 PM
I agree. It's not me getting outraged over this. I even said I didn't wholly accept their theory, just that he would be the most plausible character given what's prophesied in SCRIPTURE (not simply private revelations)

They're certainly right about the Conciliar church being the Whore of Babylon.
Why can't I click the thumbs up or down on this website? Anyways, I don't approve of Ibranyi, but he says the whore of babylon is the usa, especially new york and rome added in that. His video is interesting.   http://www.johnthebaptist.us/jbw_english/audios/lectures/rjmi/alr0055_apocalypse18_2008.mp3
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 06:13:58 PM
Hello again, the dimonds said the maitreya was the antichrist in the late 90's in their Biblical End Times prophecies video.
And? I used to think the Novus Ordo was the Catholic Church and John Paul II was a legitimate Pope, what's your point? Prophesy can only be recognised once it has unfolded, which means changing one's positions.

I've read much of what the Diamonds have written, and it's very good....because it's based on doctrine.

They need to apply the same approach to the end times.  Otherwise they wouldn't make so many mistakes (which, in a small way, hurts their credibility).
They do. You are just refusing to look at their material on it because it doesn't fit the stereotypical image of the Antichrist as some sort of politician or Emperor. Even if they missed the mark on JPII, their thesis is still much closer to identifying the end times than, let's say, Yves Dupont, and others who keep looking at the world.

Why can't I click the thumbs up or down on this website? Anyways, I don't approve of Ibranyi, but he says the whore of babylon is the usa, especially new york and rome added in that. His video is interesting.  http://www.johnthebaptist.us/jbw_english/audios/lectures/rjmi/alr0055_apocalypse18_2008.mp3
You have to have around 100 posts to vote, I believe. Edit: LOL which you just hit with that post :laugh1:
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 06:16:48 PM
Lol at all of the haters piping up. This is part of why I bring up MHFM so much on this forum,  they are 95+% correct on everything but people look for every reason possible to drag them. Classic. I will keep promoting them where they speak the truth because I guarantee they have converted more people to traditional Catholicism than all members on here combined. Additionally I hope you all pray for them every night because they are definitively the best Catholic content creators right now. People should pause to think why they convert so many.

I can attest the Dimonds have strengthened my family's faith considerably with their books on UFOs, Padre Pio, their apologetics content and debates. God bless the Dimonds, I really hope in the future they will do more spirituality content but I understand there are just so many pressing matters.
Gemmarose is the only legitimate hater of MHFM here. I didn't once believe that Pax was among them.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: bodeens on May 16, 2022, 06:24:38 PM
Gemmarose is the only legitimate hater of MHFM here. I didn't once believe that Pax was among them.
There are others who criticize them here but they haven't posted in this thread yet ;)
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 06:26:56 PM
There are others who criticize them here but they haven't posted in this thread yet ;)
Ah yes, I meant in this thread :cowboy:
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 06:55:40 PM
Lol at all of the haters piping up. This is part of why I bring up MHFM so much on this forum,  they are 95+% correct on everything but people look for every reason possible to drag them. Classic. I will keep promoting them where they speak the truth because I guarantee they have converted more people to traditional Catholicism than all members on here combined. Additionally I hope you all pray for them every night because they are definitively the best Catholic content creators right now. People should pause to think why they convert so many.

I can attest the Dimonds have strengthened my family's faith considerably with their books on UFOs, Padre Pio, their apologetics content and debates. God bless the Dimonds, I really hope in the future they will do more spirituality content but I understand there are just so many pressing matters.
Lol, who used the word "hate" buddy? It's hateful to just tell the truth? weird
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Pax Vobis on May 16, 2022, 06:59:39 PM

Quote
the stereotypical image of the Antichrist as some sort of politician or Emperor.
Except most Church Fathers (maybe it's unanimous) say he will be ruler of the world (in a political AND religious sense).  This isn't allegory it's literal.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 07:01:59 PM
And? I used to think the Novus Ordo was the Catholic Church and John Paul II was a legitimate Pope, what's your point? Prophesy can only be recognised once it has unfolded, which means changing one's positions.
They do. You are just refusing to look at their material on it because it doesn't fit the stereotypical image of the Antichrist as some sort of politician or Emperor. Even if they missed the mark on JPII, their thesis is still much closer to identifying the end times than, let's say, Yves Dupont, and others who keep looking at the world.
You have to have around 100 posts to vote, I believe. Edit: LOL which you just hit with that post :laugh1:
I haven't believed JP II was the pope for like since the 90's, what's your point? I believed Vatican II is not the church since the 90's dude before the dimonds, what's your point? Your're upset because I'm pointing out their mistakes and correcting what people are saying on here? What's your problem? Can the dimonds ever admit they got their ideas wrong? I've looked at their material and that's how I found out they got thing wrong, like their video they had out in the 90's called Bilical End Times prophecies, you probably were wearing diapers, lol.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 07:04:44 PM
Gemmarose is the only legitimate hater of MHFM here. I didn't once believe that Pax was among them.
Um, you are committing detraction, show me where I said I "hate" the dimonds. Then publicly apologize to me & go to confession. I'm only correcting what ya'll on a few issues, like their antichrist issue and why they thought was and when. It's not dogma, so what's your problem?
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 07:13:06 PM
Um, you are committing detraction, show me where I said I "hate" the dimonds. Then publicly apologize to me & go to confession. I'm only correcting what ya'll on a few issues, like their antichrist issue and why they thought was and when. It's not dogma, so what's your problem?
I didn't say "hate", I said "hater", it's slang, as in you constantly need to expose the flaws in the Dimond's ministry.

My problem is that you only seem to post whenever a discussion surrounding MHFM comes up.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 07:13:58 PM
Except most Church Fathers (maybe it's unanimous) say he will be ruler of the world (in a political AND religious sense).  This isn't allegory it's literal.
And is not the Supreme Pontiff (legitimate or no) the highest earthly authority in a political and religious sense?
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 07:16:55 PM
I didn't say "hate", I said "hater", it's slang, as in you constantly need to expose the flaws in the Dimond's ministry.

My problem is that you only seem to post whenever a discussion surrounding MHFM comes up.
I'm a "hater" because I'm pointing out to you all that they made mistakes? lol just apologize for your slander against me. I believe in all the correct dogmas, against Vatican II & the popes, against bod & nfp  before the dimonds. I don't need to believe in the dimonds or their antichrist, what's your problem?
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 07:18:12 PM
I didn't say "hate", I said "hater", it's slang, as in you constantly need to expose the flaws in the Dimond's ministry.

My problem is that you only seem to post whenever a discussion surrounding MHFM comes up.
Do you attend Mass? Seems some dimonites can't answer that question. Answer, Yes or No.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: bodeens on May 16, 2022, 07:21:27 PM
Lol, who used the word "hate" buddy? It's hateful to just tell the truth? weird
I never used hate. I used "hater". Since you aren't going to charitably interpret common parlance I am done here.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 07:22:52 PM
I didn't say "hate", I said "hater", it's slang, as in you constantly need to expose the flaws in the Dimond's ministry.

My problem is that you only seem to post whenever a discussion surrounding MHFM comes up.
Did you know in their video in the late 90's Fred said the Maitreya could be the antichrist? What do you have to say about the two witnesses in Apocalypse 11? They are supposed to be killed by the antichrist and lay in the street for 3 days. Does fred & Bob think JP II is going to come back to life and get them? since some of their supporter's think they might be the 2 witnesses? lol
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 07:23:41 PM
I never used hate. I used "hater". Since you aren't going to charitably interpret common parlance I am done here.
Ok whatever, bye bye
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 07:25:46 PM
I never used hate. I used "hater". Since you aren't going to charitably interpret common parlance I am done here.
You're still wrong you used "hater" I never said I was a "hater"   waiting for an apology.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Byzantine7 on May 16, 2022, 07:30:52 PM
Hello All,

I am a new member on this forum, but I have consistently read posts for a number of years on this forum. I have always found Ladislaus's posts to be particularly helpful when I've read them.

I would like to add my two cents on the Dimond brothers. Previously, I was an avid supporter of MHFM. I watched every video, listened to every audio, read every article that they have produced in the last fifteen years. I also have viewed a lot of their material produced in the 1990s. As many of you know, they promote one of the promises made to Saint Benedict. That is order will play a special role at the end of the world. They believe they are that order. I also believed this for a long time.

There are various observations I will make, that one may view as critical. However, the criticism that  some people assert about the Dimond brothers doing this for money is absurd and obviously false. They essentially give all of their material away for free, either on the websites or platforms like YouTube. There is not one single piece of material behind a paywall. Also, when I would purchase material over the years, they would send me what I ordered with a bunch of other items also thrown in. I know others have also had this experience with them too. Not to the mention, the DVDs and books are very cheap to purchase. To criticize them in this way is just plain wrong.

As I mentioned, I was an avid supporter of their work for long time. What changed? As I began to progress spiritually, becoming more familiar with the lives and examples of the saints, I began to not be able to square some of the Dimond brother's behavior towards people. I too, had taken on some of their traits. I began to realize that they sometimes would be quite cold and uncharitable and impatient with people. I began to see the error of the ways. I can give examples and links for anything that I write here, if anyone requires proof. In various discussions with people they declare certain people to be of "bad will" "diabolically influenced", "possessed", "don't care about the truth..." etc. These were mainly referred to those professing to be Catholic and/or Trad Catholic. Once they confirm that someone believes something heretical, they say they're bad willed or something equivalent to that. I began to realize that we have no real way of knowing these things. During their debates, a person may stumble or seem confused and the Dimond brother will quickly label that person to be a "liar" or a "complete liar". Or perhaps, even possessed by a demon. I could see that this behavior was not helpful in trying to spread the Catholic faith and maybe even drives people away from the church. We know from Church history some conversions happen rapidly and others at a slower pace. Saint Augustine took years to convert and he had the prayers of Saint Monica to aid in his conversion. I find the Dimond brother's treatment of some people to be very unfair at the times.

There are some inconsistences in their thinking. For example, it's well known that Brother Michael Dimond spoke out against Sedevacantism in the 1990s. In this talk he did declare that John Paul II was a heretic but that he remained the pope. They say that Brother Michael was influenced by Father Wathen in this regard. That he was mistaken on these matters and that an allowance for Brother Michael's mistake on this should be given. Fair enough! However, they don't afford the same courtesy today in regards to sedevacantism. People might say "well Francis is so notorious and in 2022 we have a wealth of information via online...". Sedes in the 1990s could pretty much say the same thing in regards to Brother Michael. They could easily say "JP2 is such a heretic and apostate, brother Michael even called him a heretic, yet accepts him as the pope, this is bad will..." Of course that statement would be unfair to Brother Michael, it's also unfair for the Dimond brothers to chalk most traditionalists errors up to bad will. Anyone who was a dedicated reader of their website will know that they tend to bind consciences on various issues. Including some cօռspιʀαcιҽs that they believe. For example, they have said in the past that if someone sees the evidence regarding 9/11 and doesn't accept that it is a conspiracy, it's a mortal sin. I really think they go too far on this. They don't accept people to just be error, its that the person is bad willed, a liar, a diabolical heretic etc. I myself fell into this over time. I would assume the ways of the person's heart, until I realized this is really wrong.

A good example of behavior which I think is wrong is their video on Bishop Dolan. The title of the video and bringing Bishop Dolan's tweet into the video, implies that he died because he bad mouthed them. I can assure you that many of their readers and supporters believe this. They go onto presume he is in Hell, since we cannot pray for him according to them. They have done this with various trad clergy throughout the years. Correct me if I am wrong, but we cannot presume the final destination of any soul other that Judas? We do not know what grace God gives anyone right up until the person dies. The fact that they make videos like that does seem cold to me. Bear in mind, there was a time I would have supported those videos.

I do not hold Baptism of Desire or Baptism of blood. However, I think the Dimond brothers go too far on this issue too. I do believe that one may hold those positions as long as it is consistent with the various Doctors and Saints of the Church who held those positions. I believe those positions to be demonstrably false, but as the Church as not officially condemned these ideas, and they are in various books of the church, a Catholic can hold these positions and remain a Catholic. The Dimond brothers would likely label most a outright heretic if they don't agree with their position on the matter. Again, they go further than needed and label more people as bad willed and having no care for the Catholic faith. Whereas, reason tells me that if a person is going to a sede chapel, if they didn't care at all about the faith, there is a much easier life to be had at the local novus ordo "church". With maybe few exceptions, I think we can agree that anyone claiming to be Trad probably has some care for the faith, otherwise they wouldn't take certain actions. Yet the Dimond brothers can tell these people they don't care about the truth one bit. Following these examples, I have seen their supports be bitter, spiteful and outright insulting to people. This does cause me concern, as by their fruits you shall know them. I have seen their supporters ask series of questions until the person finally gives a wrong answer and then the Dimond supporter will condemn the person. Usually in a distasteful way. The way in which many of those supporters behave, does not line up with Christian virtues.  These kind of things got me to move away from MHFM. This is a crisis in the Church and I believe we need to give as many people the benefit of the doubt. It is possible that many are trying their best to preserve the faith in this unprecedented crisis. The bitterness of MHFM does not help people.

In regards to their material regarding the end times, I believe it is quite compelling. Although, I do not agree with all of it, unsure on some it and agree with parts. I think we are in the Great Apostasy. I think what's happening in Rome is a great example of this point. If one watches their videos regarding the end times, it is not easy to argue with. I would appreciate someone with knowledge debating them on the end times. With that said, I think there is some gaps in their antichrist theory. It is just a fact that most of the writings of the Church fathers and saints throughout history does not line up with the Dimond's analysis on the Antichrist. They also use a part of Our Lady of La Salette often about this. 

"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist..."

We know that La Salette also says he will be born of Hebrew nun and his father would be a bishop. Here is another excerpt from the message.

There shall  be wars until the last war, which shall be waged by the ten kings of Antichrist. All these Kings shall a common design, and they only shall  govern the world.

We know that this doesn't fit with MHFM's JP2 theory. They use the quote regarding Rome to help prove their point, but they are ignoring other parts of the same message. It is also true that previous to their current material they held Pope Benedict XV to be the first of the seven kings. This was changed after B16 was elected. In regards to the two witnesses, LaSalette mentions Enoch and Elias will combat the Antichrist. Many of MHFM supporters believe the Dimonds are the two witnesses. I think this is an error on the supporters part, but it's quite dangerous. When one believes that these two brothers are the two witnesses of the Apocalypse, you are inclined to agree with everything they say and do. You can see this in some of the supporters, they become cult-like.

I used to think that JP2 was the Antichrist without a doubt. Now, I am more inclined to believe we are in the advent of Antichrist and JP2 was a precursor. As I said, the Dimond's end time information is quite compelling. I know Gemmarose said that Brother Michael said Maitraya was the Antichrist in the 90s. He didn't specifically word it that way. He said he thought that Maitraya was a possible candidate.

In closing, I think they have produced some great works, I think they let themselves down by their treatment and bitter zeal (as Lad would say). I think the bitter zeal does a lot of harm and undoes a lot of good work. I wish they weren't as dogmatic on non - dogmatic issues, but that is pretty much true of all the Trad groups.

Lastly, as I am new here, I would like to kindly ask any of you who read this to pray a Hail Mary for me. I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: bodeens on May 16, 2022, 07:39:05 PM
Hello All,

I am a new member on this forum, but I have consistently read posts for a number of years on this forum. I have always found Ladislaus's posts to be particularly helpful when I've read them.

I would like to add my two cents on the Dimond brothers. Previously, I was an avid supporter of MHFM. I watched every video, listened to every audio, read every article that they have produced in the last fifteen years. I also have viewed a lot of their material produced in the 1990s. As many of you know, they promote one of the promises made to Saint Benedict. That is order will play a special role at the end of the world. They believe they are that order. I also believed this for a long time.

There are various observations I will make, that one may view as critical. However, the criticism that  some people assert about the Dimond brothers doing this for money is absurd and obviously false. They essentially give all of their material away for free, either on the websites or platforms like YouTube. There is not one single piece of material behind a paywall. Also, when I would purchase material over the years, they would send me what I ordered with a bunch of other items also thrown in. I know others have also had this experience with them too. Not to the mention, the DVDs and books are very cheap to purchase. To criticize them in this way is just plain wrong.

As I mentioned, I was an avid supporter of their work for long time. What changed? As I began to progress spiritually, becoming more familiar with the lives and examples of the saints, I began to not be able to square some of the Dimond brother's behavior towards people. I too, had taken on some of their traits. I began to realize that they sometimes would be quite cold and uncharitable and impatient with people. I began to see the error of the ways. I can give examples and links for anything that I write here, if anyone requires proof. In various discussions with people they declare certain people to be of "bad will" "diabolically influenced", "possessed", "don't care about the truth..." etc. These were mainly referred to those professing to be Catholic and/or Trad Catholic. Once they confirm that someone believes something heretical, they say they're bad willed or something equivalent to that. I began to realize that we have no real way of knowing these things. During their debates, a person may stumble or seem confused and the Dimond brother will quickly label that person to be a "liar" or a "complete liar". Or perhaps, even possessed by a demon. I could see that this behavior was not helpful in trying to spread the Catholic faith and maybe even drives people away from the church. We know from Church history some conversions happen rapidly and others at a slower pace. Saint Augustine took years to convert and he had the prayers of Saint Monica to aid in his conversion. I find the Dimond brother's treatment of some people to be very unfair at the times.

There are some inconsistences in their thinking. For example, it's well known that Brother Michael Dimond spoke out against Sedevacantism in the 1990s. In this talk he did declare that John Paul II was a heretic but that he remained the pope. They say that Brother Michael was influenced by Father Wathen in this regard. That he was mistaken on these matters and that an allowance for Brother Michael's mistake on this should be given. Fair enough! However, they don't afford the same courtesy today in regards to sedevacantism. People might say "well Francis is so notorious and in 2022 we have a wealth of information via online...". Sedes in the 1990s could pretty much say the same thing in regards to Brother Michael. They could easily say "JP2 is such a heretic and apostate, brother Michael even called him a heretic, yet accepts him as the pope, this is bad will..." Of course that statement would be unfair to Brother Michael, it's also unfair for the Dimond brothers to chalk most traditionalists errors up to bad will. Anyone who was a dedicated reader of their website will know that they tend to bind consciences on various issues. Including some cօռspιʀαcιҽs that they believe. For example, they have said in the past that if someone sees the evidence regarding 9/11 and doesn't accept that it is a conspiracy, it's a mortal sin. I really think they go too far on this. They don't accept people to just be error, its that the person is bad willed, a liar, a diabolical heretic etc. I myself fell into this over time. I would assume the ways of the person's heart, until I realized this is really wrong.

A good example of behavior which I think is wrong is their video on Bishop Dolan. The title of the video and bringing Bishop Dolan's tweet into the video, implies that he died because he bad mouthed them. I can assure you that many of their readers and supporters believe this. They go onto presume he is in Hell, since we cannot pray for him according to them. They have done this with various trad clergy throughout the years. Correct me if I am wrong, but we cannot presume the final destination of any soul other that Judas? We do not know what grace God gives anyone right up until the person dies. The fact that they make videos like that does seem cold to me. Bear in mind, there was a time I would have supported those videos.

I do not hold Baptism of Desire or Baptism of blood. However, I think the Dimond brothers go too far on this issue too. I do believe that one may hold those positions as long as it is consistent with the various Doctors and Saints of the Church who held those positions. I believe those positions to be demonstrably false, but as the Church as not officially condemned these ideas, and they are in various books of the church, a Catholic can hold these positions and remain a Catholic. The Dimond brothers would likely label most a outright heretic if they don't agree with their position on the matter. Again, they go further than needed and label more people as bad willed and having no care for the Catholic faith. Whereas, reason tells me that if a person is going to a sede chapel, if they didn't care at all about the faith, there is a much easier life to be had at the local novus ordo "church". With maybe few exceptions, I think we can agree that anyone claiming to be Trad probably has some care for the faith, otherwise they wouldn't take certain actions. Yet the Dimond brothers can tell these people they don't care about the truth one bit. Following these examples, I have seen their supports be bitter, spiteful and outright insulting to people. This does cause me concern, as by their fruits you shall know them. I have seen their supporters ask series of questions until the person finally gives a wrong answer and then the Dimond supporter will condemn the person. Usually in a distasteful way. The way in which many of those supporters behave, does not line up with Christian virtues.  These kind of things got me to move away from MHFM. This is a crisis in the Church and I believe we need to give as many people the benefit of the doubt. It is possible that many are trying their best to preserve the faith in this unprecedented crisis. The bitterness of MHFM does not help people.

In regards to their material regarding the end times, I believe it is quite compelling. Although, I do not agree with all of it, unsure on some it and agree with parts. I think we are in the Great Apostasy. I think what's happening in Rome is a great example of this point. If one watches their videos regarding the end times, it is not easy to argue with. I would appreciate someone with knowledge debating them on the end times. With that said, I think there is some gaps in their antichrist theory. It is just a fact that most of the writings of the Church fathers and saints throughout history does not line up with the Dimond's analysis on the Antichrist. They also use a part of Our Lady of La Salette often about this. 

"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist..."

We know that La Salette also says he will be born of Hebrew nun and his father would be a bishop. Here is another excerpt from the message.

There shall  be wars until the last war, which shall be waged by the ten kings of Antichrist. All these Kings shall a common design, and they only shall  govern the world.

We know that this doesn't fit with MHFM's JP2 theory. They use the quote regarding Rome to help prove their point, but they are ignoring other parts of the same message. It is also true that previous to their current material they held Pope Benedict XV to be the first of the seven kings. This was changed after B16 was elected. In regards to the two witnesses, LaSalette mentions Enoch and Elias will combat the Antichrist. Many of MHFM supporters believe the Dimonds are the two witnesses. I think this is an error on the supporters part, but it's quite dangerous. When one believes that these two brothers are the two witnesses of the Apocalypse, you are inclined to agree with everything they say and do. You can see this in some of the supporters, they become cult-like.

I used to think that JP2 was the Antichrist without a doubt. Now, I am more inclined to believe we are in the advent of Antichrist and JP2 was a precursor. As I said, the Dimond's end time information is quite compelling. I know Gemmarose said that Brother Michael said Maitraya was the Antichrist in the 90s. He didn't specifically word it that way. He said he thought that Maitraya was a possible candidate.

In closing, I think they have produced some great works, I think they let themselves down by their treatment and bitter zeal (as Lad would say). I think the bitter zeal does a lot of harm and undoes a lot of good work. I wish they weren't as dogmatic on non - dogmatic issues, but that is pretty much true of all the Trad groups.

Lastly, as I am new here, I would like to kindly ask any of you who read this to pray a Hail Mary for me. I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.

My family will pray for you nightly.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 07:39:28 PM
Did you know in their video in the late 90's Fred said the Maitreya could be the antichrist? What do you have to say about the two witnesses in Apocalypse 11? They are supposed to be killed by the antichrist and lay in the street for 3 days. Does fred & Bob think JP II is going to come back to life and get them? since some of their supporter's think they might be the 2 witnesses? lol
Hello All,

I am a new member on this forum, but I have consistently read posts for a number of years on this forum. I have always found Ladislaus's posts to be particularly helpful when I've read them.

I would like to add my two cents on the Dimond brothers. Previously, I was an avid supporter of MHFM. I watched every video, listened to every audio, read every article that they have produced in the last fifteen years. I also have viewed a lot of their material produced in the 1990s. As many of you know, they promote one of the promises made to Saint Benedict. That is order will play a special role at the end of the world. They believe they are that order. I also believed this for a long time.

There are various observations I will make, that one may view as critical. However, the criticism that  some people assert about the Dimond brothers doing this for money is absurd and obviously false. They essentially give all of their material away for free, either on the websites or platforms like YouTube. There is not one single piece of material behind a paywall. Also, when I would purchase material over the years, they would send me what I ordered with a bunch of other items also thrown in. I know others have also had this experience with them too. Not to the mention, the DVDs and books are very cheap to purchase. To criticize them in this way is just plain wrong.

As I mentioned, I was an avid supporter of their work for long time. What changed? As I began to progress spiritually, becoming more familiar with the lives and examples of the saints, I began to not be able to square some of the Dimond brother's behavior towards people. I too, had taken on some of their traits. I began to realize that they sometimes would be quite cold and uncharitable and impatient with people. I began to see the error of the ways. I can give examples and links for anything that I write here, if anyone requires proof. In various discussions with people they declare certain people to be of "bad will" "diabolically influenced", "possessed", "don't care about the truth..." etc. These were mainly referred to those professing to be Catholic and/or Trad Catholic. Once they confirm that someone believes something heretical, they say they're bad willed or something equivalent to that. I began to realize that we have no real way of knowing these things. During their debates, a person may stumble or seem confused and the Dimond brother will quickly label that person to be a "liar" or a "complete liar". Or perhaps, even possessed by a demon. I could see that this behavior was not helpful in trying to spread the Catholic faith and maybe even drives people away from the church. We know from Church history some conversions happen rapidly and others at a slower pace. Saint Augustine took years to convert and he had the prayers of Saint Monica to aid in his conversion. I find the Dimond brother's treatment of some people to be very unfair at the times.

There are some inconsistences in their thinking. For example, it's well known that Brother Michael Dimond spoke out against Sedevacantism in the 1990s. In this talk he did declare that John Paul II was a heretic but that he remained the pope. They say that Brother Michael was influenced by Father Wathen in this regard. That he was mistaken on these matters and that an allowance for Brother Michael's mistake on this should be given. Fair enough! However, they don't afford the same courtesy today in regards to sedevacantism. People might say "well Francis is so notorious and in 2022 we have a wealth of information via online...". Sedes in the 1990s could pretty much say the same thing in regards to Brother Michael. They could easily say "JP2 is such a heretic and apostate, brother Michael even called him a heretic, yet accepts him as the pope, this is bad will..." Of course that statement would be unfair to Brother Michael, it's also unfair for the Dimond brothers to chalk most traditionalists errors up to bad will. Anyone who was a dedicated reader of their website will know that they tend to bind consciences on various issues. Including some cօռspιʀαcιҽs that they believe. For example, they have said in the past that if someone sees the evidence regarding 9/11 and doesn't accept that it is a conspiracy, it's a mortal sin. I really think they go too far on this. They don't accept people to just be error, its that the person is bad willed, a liar, a diabolical heretic etc. I myself fell into this over time. I would assume the ways of the person's heart, until I realized this is really wrong.

A good example of behavior which I think is wrong is their video on Bishop Dolan. The title of the video and bringing Bishop Dolan's tweet into the video, implies that he died because he bad mouthed them. I can assure you that many of their readers and supporters believe this. They go onto presume he is in Hell, since we cannot pray for him according to them. They have done this with various trad clergy throughout the years. Correct me if I am wrong, but we cannot presume the final destination of any soul other that Judas? We do not know what grace God gives anyone right up until the person dies. The fact that they make videos like that does seem cold to me. Bear in mind, there was a time I would have supported those videos.

I do not hold Baptism of Desire or Baptism of blood. However, I think the Dimond brothers go too far on this issue too. I do believe that one may hold those positions as long as it is consistent with the various Doctors and Saints of the Church who held those positions. I believe those positions to be demonstrably false, but as the Church as not officially condemned these ideas, and they are in various books of the church, a Catholic can hold these positions and remain a Catholic. The Dimond brothers would likely label most a outright heretic if they don't agree with their position on the matter. Again, they go further than needed and label more people as bad willed and having no care for the Catholic faith. Whereas, reason tells me that if a person is going to a sede chapel, if they didn't care at all about the faith, there is a much easier life to be had at the local novus ordo "church". With maybe few exceptions, I think we can agree that anyone claiming to be Trad probably has some care for the faith, otherwise they wouldn't take certain actions. Yet the Dimond brothers can tell these people they don't care about the truth one bit. Following these examples, I have seen their supports be bitter, spiteful and outright insulting to people. This does cause me concern, as by their fruits you shall know them. I have seen their supporters ask series of questions until the person finally gives a wrong answer and then the Dimond supporter will condemn the person. Usually in a distasteful way. The way in which many of those supporters behave, does not line up with Christian virtues.  These kind of things got me to move away from MHFM. This is a crisis in the Church and I believe we need to give as many people the benefit of the doubt. It is possible that many are trying their best to preserve the faith in this unprecedented crisis. The bitterness of MHFM does not help people.

In regards to their material regarding the end times, I believe it is quite compelling. Although, I do not agree with all of it, unsure on some it and agree with parts. I think we are in the Great Apostasy. I think what's happening in Rome is a great example of this point. If one watches their videos regarding the end times, it is not easy to argue with. I would appreciate someone with knowledge debating them on the end times. With that said, I think there is some gaps in their antichrist theory. It is just a fact that most of the writings of the Church fathers and saints throughout history does not line up with the Dimond's analysis on the Antichrist. They also use a part of Our Lady of La Salette often about this. 

"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist..."

We know that La Salette also says he will be born of Hebrew nun and his father would be a bishop. Here is another excerpt from the message.

There shall  be wars until the last war, which shall be waged by the ten kings of Antichrist. All these Kings shall a common design, and they only shall  govern the world.

We know that this doesn't fit with MHFM's JP2 theory. They use the quote regarding Rome to help prove their point, but they are ignoring other parts of the same message. It is also true that previous to their current material they held Pope Benedict XV to be the first of the seven kings. This was changed after B16 was elected. In regards to the two witnesses, LaSalette mentions Enoch and Elias will combat the Antichrist. Many of MHFM supporters believe the Dimonds are the two witnesses. I think this is an error on the supporters part, but it's quite dangerous. When one believes that these two brothers are the two witnesses of the Apocalypse, you are inclined to agree with everything they say and do. You can see this in some of the supporters, they become cult-like.

I used to think that JP2 was the Antichrist without a doubt. Now, I am more inclined to believe we are in the advent of Antichrist and JP2 was a precursor. As I said, the Dimond's end time information is quite compelling. I know Gemmarose said that Brother Michael said Maitraya was the Antichrist in the 90s. He didn't specifically word it that way. He said he thought that Maitraya was a possible candidate.

In closing, I think they have produced some great works, I think they let themselves down by their treatment and bitter zeal (as Lad would say). I think the bitter zeal does a lot of harm and undoes a lot of good work. I wish they weren't as dogmatic on non - dogmatic issues, but that is pretty much true of all the Trad groups.

Lastly, as I am new here, I would like to kindly ask any of you who read this to pray a Hail Mary for me. I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.

Ok, here I said could be. This crossroads dude has a video called " And That's What's going to happen" it has parts of that old video Fred made in it. At least Ibranyi can publicly correct his mistakes. I don't see the dimonds do that, why? pride? embarrassment?
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Byzantine7 on May 16, 2022, 07:48:40 PM
My family will pray for you nightly.
Thank you.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 07:50:06 PM
Hello All,

I am a new member on this forum, but I have consistently read posts for a number of years on this forum. I have always found Ladislaus's posts to be particularly helpful when I've read them.

I would like to add my two cents on the Dimond brothers. Previously, I was an avid supporter of MHFM. I watched every video, listened to every audio, read every article that they have produced in the last fifteen years. I also have viewed a lot of their material produced in the 1990s. As many of you know, they promote one of the promises made to Saint Benedict. That is order will play a special role at the end of the world. They believe they are that order. I also believed this for a long time.

There are various observations I will make, that one may view as critical. However, the criticism that  some people assert about the Dimond brothers doing this for money is absurd and obviously false. They essentially give all of their material away for free, either on the websites or platforms like YouTube. There is not one single piece of material behind a paywall. Also, when I would purchase material over the years, they would send me what I ordered with a bunch of other items also thrown in. I know others have also had this experience with them too. Not to the mention, the DVDs and books are very cheap to purchase. To criticize them in this way is just plain wrong.

As I mentioned, I was an avid supporter of their work for long time. What changed? As I began to progress spiritually, becoming more familiar with the lives and examples of the saints, I began to not be able to square some of the Dimond brother's behavior towards people. I too, had taken on some of their traits. I began to realize that they sometimes would be quite cold and uncharitable and impatient with people. I began to see the error of the ways. I can give examples and links for anything that I write here, if anyone requires proof. In various discussions with people they declare certain people to be of "bad will" "diabolically influenced", "possessed", "don't care about the truth..." etc. These were mainly referred to those professing to be Catholic and/or Trad Catholic. Once they confirm that someone believes something heretical, they say they're bad willed or something equivalent to that. I began to realize that we have no real way of knowing these things. During their debates, a person may stumble or seem confused and the Dimond brother will quickly label that person to be a "liar" or a "complete liar". Or perhaps, even possessed by a demon. I could see that this behavior was not helpful in trying to spread the Catholic faith and maybe even drives people away from the church. We know from Church history some conversions happen rapidly and others at a slower pace. Saint Augustine took years to convert and he had the prayers of Saint Monica to aid in his conversion. I find the Dimond brother's treatment of some people to be very unfair at the times.

There are some inconsistences in their thinking. For example, it's well known that Brother Michael Dimond spoke out against Sedevacantism in the 1990s. In this talk he did declare that John Paul II was a heretic but that he remained the pope. They say that Brother Michael was influenced by Father Wathen in this regard. That he was mistaken on these matters and that an allowance for Brother Michael's mistake on this should be given. Fair enough! However, they don't afford the same courtesy today in regards to sedevacantism. People might say "well Francis is so notorious and in 2022 we have a wealth of information via online...". Sedes in the 1990s could pretty much say the same thing in regards to Brother Michael. They could easily say "JP2 is such a heretic and apostate, brother Michael even called him a heretic, yet accepts him as the pope, this is bad will..." Of course that statement would be unfair to Brother Michael, it's also unfair for the Dimond brothers to chalk most traditionalists errors up to bad will. Anyone who was a dedicated reader of their website will know that they tend to bind consciences on various issues. Including some cօռspιʀαcιҽs that they believe. For example, they have said in the past that if someone sees the evidence regarding 9/11 and doesn't accept that it is a conspiracy, it's a mortal sin. I really think they go too far on this. They don't accept people to just be error, its that the person is bad willed, a liar, a diabolical heretic etc. I myself fell into this over time. I would assume the ways of the person's heart, until I realized this is really wrong.

A good example of behavior which I think is wrong is their video on Bishop Dolan. The title of the video and bringing Bishop Dolan's tweet into the video, implies that he died because he bad mouthed them. I can assure you that many of their readers and supporters believe this. They go onto presume he is in Hell, since we cannot pray for him according to them. They have done this with various trad clergy throughout the years. Correct me if I am wrong, but we cannot presume the final destination of any soul other that Judas? We do not know what grace God gives anyone right up until the person dies. The fact that they make videos like that does seem cold to me. Bear in mind, there was a time I would have supported those videos.

I do not hold Baptism of Desire or Baptism of blood. However, I think the Dimond brothers go too far on this issue too. I do believe that one may hold those positions as long as it is consistent with the various Doctors and Saints of the Church who held those positions. I believe those positions to be demonstrably false, but as the Church as not officially condemned these ideas, and they are in various books of the church, a Catholic can hold these positions and remain a Catholic. The Dimond brothers would likely label most a outright heretic if they don't agree with their position on the matter. Again, they go further than needed and label more people as bad willed and having no care for the Catholic faith. Whereas, reason tells me that if a person is going to a sede chapel, if they didn't care at all about the faith, there is a much easier life to be had at the local novus ordo "church". With maybe few exceptions, I think we can agree that anyone claiming to be Trad probably has some care for the faith, otherwise they wouldn't take certain actions. Yet the Dimond brothers can tell these people they don't care about the truth one bit. Following these examples, I have seen their supports be bitter, spiteful and outright insulting to people. This does cause me concern, as by their fruits you shall know them. I have seen their supporters ask series of questions until the person finally gives a wrong answer and then the Dimond supporter will condemn the person. Usually in a distasteful way. The way in which many of those supporters behave, does not line up with Christian virtues.  These kind of things got me to move away from MHFM. This is a crisis in the Church and I believe we need to give as many people the benefit of the doubt. It is possible that many are trying their best to preserve the faith in this unprecedented crisis. The bitterness of MHFM does not help people.

In regards to their material regarding the end times, I believe it is quite compelling. Although, I do not agree with all of it, unsure on some it and agree with parts. I think we are in the Great Apostasy. I think what's happening in Rome is a great example of this point. If one watches their videos regarding the end times, it is not easy to argue with. I would appreciate someone with knowledge debating them on the end times. With that said, I think there is some gaps in their antichrist theory. It is just a fact that most of the writings of the Church fathers and saints throughout history does not line up with the Dimond's analysis on the Antichrist. They also use a part of Our Lady of La Salette often about this. 

"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist..."

We know that La Salette also says he will be born of Hebrew nun and his father would be a bishop. Here is another excerpt from the message.

There shall  be wars until the last war, which shall be waged by the ten kings of Antichrist. All these Kings shall a common design, and they only shall  govern the world.

We know that this doesn't fit with MHFM's JP2 theory. They use the quote regarding Rome to help prove their point, but they are ignoring other parts of the same message. It is also true that previous to their current material they held Pope Benedict XV to be the first of the seven kings. This was changed after B16 was elected. In regards to the two witnesses, LaSalette mentions Enoch and Elias will combat the Antichrist. Many of MHFM supporters believe the Dimonds are the two witnesses. I think this is an error on the supporters part, but it's quite dangerous. When one believes that these two brothers are the two witnesses of the Apocalypse, you are inclined to agree with everything they say and do. You can see this in some of the supporters, they become cult-like.

I used to think that JP2 was the Antichrist without a doubt. Now, I am more inclined to believe we are in the advent of Antichrist and JP2 was a precursor. As I said, the Dimond's end time information is quite compelling. I know Gemmarose said that Brother Michael said Maitraya was the Antichrist in the 90s. He didn't specifically word it that way. He said he thought that Maitraya was a possible candidate.

In closing, I think they have produced some great works, I think they let themselves down by their treatment and bitter zeal (as Lad would say). I think the bitter zeal does a lot of harm and undoes a lot of good work. I wish they weren't as dogmatic on non - dogmatic issues, but that is pretty much true of all the Trad groups.

Lastly, as I am new here, I would like to kindly ask any of you who read this to pray a Hail Mary for me. I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.
Here is some info, they were asking for financial assistance. Was this before the 1.6 million or after? How much money did they get? SEPT APPEAL LETTER (vaticancatholic.com) (https://vaticancatholic.com/christmas_letter.pdf)
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 07:57:12 PM
Hello All,

I am a new member on this forum, but I have consistently read posts for a number of years on this forum. I have always found Ladislaus's posts to be particularly helpful when I've read them.

I would like to add my two cents on the Dimond brothers. Previously, I was an avid supporter of MHFM. I watched every video, listened to every audio, read every article that they have produced in the last fifteen years. I also have viewed a lot of their material produced in the 1990s. As many of you know, they promote one of the promises made to Saint Benedict. That is order will play a special role at the end of the world. They believe they are that order. I also believed this for a long time.

There are various observations I will make, that one may view as critical. However, the criticism that  some people assert about the Dimond brothers doing this for money is absurd and obviously false. They essentially give all of their material away for free, either on the websites or platforms like YouTube. There is not one single piece of material behind a paywall. Also, when I would purchase material over the years, they would send me what I ordered with a bunch of other items also thrown in. I know others have also had this experience with them too. Not to the mention, the DVDs and books are very cheap to purchase. To criticize them in this way is just plain wrong.

As I mentioned, I was an avid supporter of their work for long time. What changed? As I began to progress spiritually, becoming more familiar with the lives and examples of the saints, I began to not be able to square some of the Dimond brother's behavior towards people. I too, had taken on some of their traits. I began to realize that they sometimes would be quite cold and uncharitable and impatient with people. I began to see the error of the ways. I can give examples and links for anything that I write here, if anyone requires proof. In various discussions with people they declare certain people to be of "bad will" "diabolically influenced", "possessed", "don't care about the truth..." etc. These were mainly referred to those professing to be Catholic and/or Trad Catholic. Once they confirm that someone believes something heretical, they say they're bad willed or something equivalent to that. I began to realize that we have no real way of knowing these things. During their debates, a person may stumble or seem confused and the Dimond brother will quickly label that person to be a "liar" or a "complete liar". Or perhaps, even possessed by a demon. I could see that this behavior was not helpful in trying to spread the Catholic faith and maybe even drives people away from the church. We know from Church history some conversions happen rapidly and others at a slower pace. Saint Augustine took years to convert and he had the prayers of Saint Monica to aid in his conversion. I find the Dimond brother's treatment of some people to be very unfair at the times.

There are some inconsistences in their thinking. For example, it's well known that Brother Michael Dimond spoke out against Sedevacantism in the 1990s. In this talk he did declare that John Paul II was a heretic but that he remained the pope. They say that Brother Michael was influenced by Father Wathen in this regard. That he was mistaken on these matters and that an allowance for Brother Michael's mistake on this should be given. Fair enough! However, they don't afford the same courtesy today in regards to sedevacantism. People might say "well Francis is so notorious and in 2022 we have a wealth of information via online...". Sedes in the 1990s could pretty much say the same thing in regards to Brother Michael. They could easily say "JP2 is such a heretic and apostate, brother Michael even called him a heretic, yet accepts him as the pope, this is bad will..." Of course that statement would be unfair to Brother Michael, it's also unfair for the Dimond brothers to chalk most traditionalists errors up to bad will. Anyone who was a dedicated reader of their website will know that they tend to bind consciences on various issues. Including some cօռspιʀαcιҽs that they believe. For example, they have said in the past that if someone sees the evidence regarding 9/11 and doesn't accept that it is a conspiracy, it's a mortal sin. I really think they go too far on this. They don't accept people to just be error, its that the person is bad willed, a liar, a diabolical heretic etc. I myself fell into this over time. I would assume the ways of the person's heart, until I realized this is really wrong.

A good example of behavior which I think is wrong is their video on Bishop Dolan. The title of the video and bringing Bishop Dolan's tweet into the video, implies that he died because he bad mouthed them. I can assure you that many of their readers and supporters believe this. They go onto presume he is in Hell, since we cannot pray for him according to them. They have done this with various trad clergy throughout the years. Correct me if I am wrong, but we cannot presume the final destination of any soul other that Judas? We do not know what grace God gives anyone right up until the person dies. The fact that they make videos like that does seem cold to me. Bear in mind, there was a time I would have supported those videos.

I do not hold Baptism of Desire or Baptism of blood. However, I think the Dimond brothers go too far on this issue too. I do believe that one may hold those positions as long as it is consistent with the various Doctors and Saints of the Church who held those positions. I believe those positions to be demonstrably false, but as the Church as not officially condemned these ideas, and they are in various books of the church, a Catholic can hold these positions and remain a Catholic. The Dimond brothers would likely label most a outright heretic if they don't agree with their position on the matter. Again, they go further than needed and label more people as bad willed and having no care for the Catholic faith. Whereas, reason tells me that if a person is going to a sede chapel, if they didn't care at all about the faith, there is a much easier life to be had at the local novus ordo "church". With maybe few exceptions, I think we can agree that anyone claiming to be Trad probably has some care for the faith, otherwise they wouldn't take certain actions. Yet the Dimond brothers can tell these people they don't care about the truth one bit. Following these examples, I have seen their supports be bitter, spiteful and outright insulting to people. This does cause me concern, as by their fruits you shall know them. I have seen their supporters ask series of questions until the person finally gives a wrong answer and then the Dimond supporter will condemn the person. Usually in a distasteful way. The way in which many of those supporters behave, does not line up with Christian virtues.  These kind of things got me to move away from MHFM. This is a crisis in the Church and I believe we need to give as many people the benefit of the doubt. It is possible that many are trying their best to preserve the faith in this unprecedented crisis. The bitterness of MHFM does not help people.

In regards to their material regarding the end times, I believe it is quite compelling. Although, I do not agree with all of it, unsure on some it and agree with parts. I think we are in the Great Apostasy. I think what's happening in Rome is a great example of this point. If one watches their videos regarding the end times, it is not easy to argue with. I would appreciate someone with knowledge debating them on the end times. With that said, I think there is some gaps in their antichrist theory. It is just a fact that most of the writings of the Church fathers and saints throughout history does not line up with the Dimond's analysis on the Antichrist. They also use a part of Our Lady of La Salette often about this. 

"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist..."

We know that La Salette also says he will be born of Hebrew nun and his father would be a bishop. Here is another excerpt from the message.

There shall  be wars until the last war, which shall be waged by the ten kings of Antichrist. All these Kings shall a common design, and they only shall  govern the world.

We know that this doesn't fit with MHFM's JP2 theory. They use the quote regarding Rome to help prove their point, but they are ignoring other parts of the same message. It is also true that previous to their current material they held Pope Benedict XV to be the first of the seven kings. This was changed after B16 was elected. In regards to the two witnesses, LaSalette mentions Enoch and Elias will combat the Antichrist. Many of MHFM supporters believe the Dimonds are the two witnesses. I think this is an error on the supporters part, but it's quite dangerous. When one believes that these two brothers are the two witnesses of the Apocalypse, you are inclined to agree with everything they say and do. You can see this in some of the supporters, they become cult-like.

I used to think that JP2 was the Antichrist without a doubt. Now, I am more inclined to believe we are in the advent of Antichrist and JP2 was a precursor. As I said, the Dimond's end time information is quite compelling. I know Gemmarose said that Brother Michael said Maitraya was the Antichrist in the 90s. He didn't specifically word it that way. He said he thought that Maitraya was a possible candidate.

In closing, I think they have produced some great works, I think they let themselves down by their treatment and bitter zeal (as Lad would say). I think the bitter zeal does a lot of harm and undoes a lot of good work. I wish they weren't as dogmatic on non - dogmatic issues, but that is pretty much true of all the Trad groups.

Lastly, as I am new here, I would like to kindly ask any of you who read this to pray a Hail Mary for me. I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.
I don't disagree with a single thing you have said. Their attitude is the most concerning thing about them, and I've posted about that many times here before (the Bp. Dolan thread being the most recent). It's obviously a hidden pride that is effecting them in their exchanges with others, so I've been praying for them.

As for the JPII is Antichrist subject, like I initially said I agree with a lot of their points which prove without a doubt that JPII was AN Antichrist, it remains to be seen if he is THE Antichrist, but again, their evidence is compelling.

I'll pray for you.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 08:00:01 PM
Hello All,

I am a new member on this forum, but I have consistently read posts for a number of years on this forum. I have always found Ladislaus's posts to be particularly helpful when I've read them.

I would like to add my two cents on the Dimond brothers. Previously, I was an avid supporter of MHFM. I watched every video, listened to every audio, read every article that they have produced in the last fifteen years. I also have viewed a lot of their material produced in the 1990s. As many of you know, they promote one of the promises made to Saint Benedict. That is order will play a special role at the end of the world. They believe they are that order. I also believed this for a long time.

There are various observations I will make, that one may view as critical. However, the criticism that  some people assert about the Dimond brothers doing this for money is absurd and obviously false. They essentially give all of their material away for free, either on the websites or platforms like YouTube. There is not one single piece of material behind a paywall. Also, when I would purchase material over the years, they would send me what I ordered with a bunch of other items also thrown in. I know others have also had this experience with them too. Not to the mention, the DVDs and books are very cheap to purchase. To criticize them in this way is just plain wrong.

As I mentioned, I was an avid supporter of their work for long time. What changed? As I began to progress spiritually, becoming more familiar with the lives and examples of the saints, I began to not be able to square some of the Dimond brother's behavior towards people. I too, had taken on some of their traits. I began to realize that they sometimes would be quite cold and uncharitable and impatient with people. I began to see the error of the ways. I can give examples and links for anything that I write here, if anyone requires proof. In various discussions with people they declare certain people to be of "bad will" "diabolically influenced", "possessed", "don't care about the truth..." etc. These were mainly referred to those professing to be Catholic and/or Trad Catholic. Once they confirm that someone believes something heretical, they say they're bad willed or something equivalent to that. I began to realize that we have no real way of knowing these things. During their debates, a person may stumble or seem confused and the Dimond brother will quickly label that person to be a "liar" or a "complete liar". Or perhaps, even possessed by a demon. I could see that this behavior was not helpful in trying to spread the Catholic faith and maybe even drives people away from the church. We know from Church history some conversions happen rapidly and others at a slower pace. Saint Augustine took years to convert and he had the prayers of Saint Monica to aid in his conversion. I find the Dimond brother's treatment of some people to be very unfair at the times.

There are some inconsistences in their thinking. For example, it's well known that Brother Michael Dimond spoke out against Sedevacantism in the 1990s. In this talk he did declare that John Paul II was a heretic but that he remained the pope. They say that Brother Michael was influenced by Father Wathen in this regard. That he was mistaken on these matters and that an allowance for Brother Michael's mistake on this should be given. Fair enough! However, they don't afford the same courtesy today in regards to sedevacantism. People might say "well Francis is so notorious and in 2022 we have a wealth of information via online...". Sedes in the 1990s could pretty much say the same thing in regards to Brother Michael. They could easily say "JP2 is such a heretic and apostate, brother Michael even called him a heretic, yet accepts him as the pope, this is bad will..." Of course that statement would be unfair to Brother Michael, it's also unfair for the Dimond brothers to chalk most traditionalists errors up to bad will. Anyone who was a dedicated reader of their website will know that they tend to bind consciences on various issues. Including some cօռspιʀαcιҽs that they believe. For example, they have said in the past that if someone sees the evidence regarding 9/11 and doesn't accept that it is a conspiracy, it's a mortal sin. I really think they go too far on this. They don't accept people to just be error, its that the person is bad willed, a liar, a diabolical heretic etc. I myself fell into this over time. I would assume the ways of the person's heart, until I realized this is really wrong.

A good example of behavior which I think is wrong is their video on Bishop Dolan. The title of the video and bringing Bishop Dolan's tweet into the video, implies that he died because he bad mouthed them. I can assure you that many of their readers and supporters believe this. They go onto presume he is in Hell, since we cannot pray for him according to them. They have done this with various trad clergy throughout the years. Correct me if I am wrong, but we cannot presume the final destination of any soul other that Judas? We do not know what grace God gives anyone right up until the person dies. The fact that they make videos like that does seem cold to me. Bear in mind, there was a time I would have supported those videos.

I do not hold Baptism of Desire or Baptism of blood. However, I think the Dimond brothers go too far on this issue too. I do believe that one may hold those positions as long as it is consistent with the various Doctors and Saints of the Church who held those positions. I believe those positions to be demonstrably false, but as the Church as not officially condemned these ideas, and they are in various books of the church, a Catholic can hold these positions and remain a Catholic. The Dimond brothers would likely label most a outright heretic if they don't agree with their position on the matter. Again, they go further than needed and label more people as bad willed and having no care for the Catholic faith. Whereas, reason tells me that if a person is going to a sede chapel, if they didn't care at all about the faith, there is a much easier life to be had at the local novus ordo "church". With maybe few exceptions, I think we can agree that anyone claiming to be Trad probably has some care for the faith, otherwise they wouldn't take certain actions. Yet the Dimond brothers can tell these people they don't care about the truth one bit. Following these examples, I have seen their supports be bitter, spiteful and outright insulting to people. This does cause me concern, as by their fruits you shall know them. I have seen their supporters ask series of questions until the person finally gives a wrong answer and then the Dimond supporter will condemn the person. Usually in a distasteful way. The way in which many of those supporters behave, does not line up with Christian virtues.  These kind of things got me to move away from MHFM. This is a crisis in the Church and I believe we need to give as many people the benefit of the doubt. It is possible that many are trying their best to preserve the faith in this unprecedented crisis. The bitterness of MHFM does not help people.

In regards to their material regarding the end times, I believe it is quite compelling. Although, I do not agree with all of it, unsure on some it and agree with parts. I think we are in the Great Apostasy. I think what's happening in Rome is a great example of this point. If one watches their videos regarding the end times, it is not easy to argue with. I would appreciate someone with knowledge debating them on the end times. With that said, I think there is some gaps in their antichrist theory. It is just a fact that most of the writings of the Church fathers and saints throughout history does not line up with the Dimond's analysis on the Antichrist. They also use a part of Our Lady of La Salette often about this. 

"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist..."

We know that La Salette also says he will be born of Hebrew nun and his father would be a bishop. Here is another excerpt from the message.

There shall  be wars until the last war, which shall be waged by the ten kings of Antichrist. All these Kings shall a common design, and they only shall  govern the world.

We know that this doesn't fit with MHFM's JP2 theory. They use the quote regarding Rome to help prove their point, but they are ignoring other parts of the same message. It is also true that previous to their current material they held Pope Benedict XV to be the first of the seven kings. This was changed after B16 was elected. In regards to the two witnesses, LaSalette mentions Enoch and Elias will combat the Antichrist. Many of MHFM supporters believe the Dimonds are the two witnesses. I think this is an error on the supporters part, but it's quite dangerous. When one believes that these two brothers are the two witnesses of the Apocalypse, you are inclined to agree with everything they say and do. You can see this in some of the supporters, they become cult-like.

I used to think that JP2 was the Antichrist without a doubt. Now, I am more inclined to believe we are in the advent of Antichrist and JP2 was a precursor. As I said, the Dimond's end time information is quite compelling. I know Gemmarose said that Brother Michael said Maitraya was the Antichrist in the 90s. He didn't specifically word it that way. He said he thought that Maitraya was a possible candidate.

In closing, I think they have produced some great works, I think they let themselves down by their treatment and bitter zeal (as Lad would say). I think the bitter zeal does a lot of harm and undoes a lot of good work. I wish they weren't as dogmatic on non - dogmatic issues, but that is pretty much true of all the Trad groups.

Lastly, as I am new here, I would like to kindly ask any of you who read this to pray a Hail Mary for me. I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.
Fred didn't want to hear what Richard Ibranyi had to say about sedevacantism, Richard converted Peter before Fred. The story is in this video.  Living at Most Holy Family Monastery (MHFM) with the Dimond Brothers for 17 months (audio testimony) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnmeLgIl7RQ&t=63s)
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 08:01:14 PM
Hello All,

I am a new member on this forum, but I have consistently read posts for a number of years on this forum. I have always found Ladislaus's posts to be particularly helpful when I've read them.

I would like to add my two cents on the Dimond brothers. Previously, I was an avid supporter of MHFM. I watched every video, listened to every audio, read every article that they have produced in the last fifteen years. I also have viewed a lot of their material produced in the 1990s. As many of you know, they promote one of the promises made to Saint Benedict. That is order will play a special role at the end of the world. They believe they are that order. I also believed this for a long time.

There are various observations I will make, that one may view as critical. However, the criticism that  some people assert about the Dimond brothers doing this for money is absurd and obviously false. They essentially give all of their material away for free, either on the websites or platforms like YouTube. There is not one single piece of material behind a paywall. Also, when I would purchase material over the years, they would send me what I ordered with a bunch of other items also thrown in. I know others have also had this experience with them too. Not to the mention, the DVDs and books are very cheap to purchase. To criticize them in this way is just plain wrong.

As I mentioned, I was an avid supporter of their work for long time. What changed? As I began to progress spiritually, becoming more familiar with the lives and examples of the saints, I began to not be able to square some of the Dimond brother's behavior towards people. I too, had taken on some of their traits. I began to realize that they sometimes would be quite cold and uncharitable and impatient with people. I began to see the error of the ways. I can give examples and links for anything that I write here, if anyone requires proof. In various discussions with people they declare certain people to be of "bad will" "diabolically influenced", "possessed", "don't care about the truth..." etc. These were mainly referred to those professing to be Catholic and/or Trad Catholic. Once they confirm that someone believes something heretical, they say they're bad willed or something equivalent to that. I began to realize that we have no real way of knowing these things. During their debates, a person may stumble or seem confused and the Dimond brother will quickly label that person to be a "liar" or a "complete liar". Or perhaps, even possessed by a demon. I could see that this behavior was not helpful in trying to spread the Catholic faith and maybe even drives people away from the church. We know from Church history some conversions happen rapidly and others at a slower pace. Saint Augustine took years to convert and he had the prayers of Saint Monica to aid in his conversion. I find the Dimond brother's treatment of some people to be very unfair at the times.

There are some inconsistences in their thinking. For example, it's well known that Brother Michael Dimond spoke out against Sedevacantism in the 1990s. In this talk he did declare that John Paul II was a heretic but that he remained the pope. They say that Brother Michael was influenced by Father Wathen in this regard. That he was mistaken on these matters and that an allowance for Brother Michael's mistake on this should be given. Fair enough! However, they don't afford the same courtesy today in regards to sedevacantism. People might say "well Francis is so notorious and in 2022 we have a wealth of information via online...". Sedes in the 1990s could pretty much say the same thing in regards to Brother Michael. They could easily say "JP2 is such a heretic and apostate, brother Michael even called him a heretic, yet accepts him as the pope, this is bad will..." Of course that statement would be unfair to Brother Michael, it's also unfair for the Dimond brothers to chalk most traditionalists errors up to bad will. Anyone who was a dedicated reader of their website will know that they tend to bind consciences on various issues. Including some cօռspιʀαcιҽs that they believe. For example, they have said in the past that if someone sees the evidence regarding 9/11 and doesn't accept that it is a conspiracy, it's a mortal sin. I really think they go too far on this. They don't accept people to just be error, its that the person is bad willed, a liar, a diabolical heretic etc. I myself fell into this over time. I would assume the ways of the person's heart, until I realized this is really wrong.

A good example of behavior which I think is wrong is their video on Bishop Dolan. The title of the video and bringing Bishop Dolan's tweet into the video, implies that he died because he bad mouthed them. I can assure you that many of their readers and supporters believe this. They go onto presume he is in Hell, since we cannot pray for him according to them. They have done this with various trad clergy throughout the years. Correct me if I am wrong, but we cannot presume the final destination of any soul other that Judas? We do not know what grace God gives anyone right up until the person dies. The fact that they make videos like that does seem cold to me. Bear in mind, there was a time I would have supported those videos.

I do not hold Baptism of Desire or Baptism of blood. However, I think the Dimond brothers go too far on this issue too. I do believe that one may hold those positions as long as it is consistent with the various Doctors and Saints of the Church who held those positions. I believe those positions to be demonstrably false, but as the Church as not officially condemned these ideas, and they are in various books of the church, a Catholic can hold these positions and remain a Catholic. The Dimond brothers would likely label most a outright heretic if they don't agree with their position on the matter. Again, they go further than needed and label more people as bad willed and having no care for the Catholic faith. Whereas, reason tells me that if a person is going to a sede chapel, if they didn't care at all about the faith, there is a much easier life to be had at the local novus ordo "church". With maybe few exceptions, I think we can agree that anyone claiming to be Trad probably has some care for the faith, otherwise they wouldn't take certain actions. Yet the Dimond brothers can tell these people they don't care about the truth one bit. Following these examples, I have seen their supports be bitter, spiteful and outright insulting to people. This does cause me concern, as by their fruits you shall know them. I have seen their supporters ask series of questions until the person finally gives a wrong answer and then the Dimond supporter will condemn the person. Usually in a distasteful way. The way in which many of those supporters behave, does not line up with Christian virtues.  These kind of things got me to move away from MHFM. This is a crisis in the Church and I believe we need to give as many people the benefit of the doubt. It is possible that many are trying their best to preserve the faith in this unprecedented crisis. The bitterness of MHFM does not help people.

In regards to their material regarding the end times, I believe it is quite compelling. Although, I do not agree with all of it, unsure on some it and agree with parts. I think we are in the Great Apostasy. I think what's happening in Rome is a great example of this point. If one watches their videos regarding the end times, it is not easy to argue with. I would appreciate someone with knowledge debating them on the end times. With that said, I think there is some gaps in their antichrist theory. It is just a fact that most of the writings of the Church fathers and saints throughout history does not line up with the Dimond's analysis on the Antichrist. They also use a part of Our Lady of La Salette often about this. 

"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist..."

We know that La Salette also says he will be born of Hebrew nun and his father would be a bishop. Here is another excerpt from the message.

There shall  be wars until the last war, which shall be waged by the ten kings of Antichrist. All these Kings shall a common design, and they only shall  govern the world.

We know that this doesn't fit with MHFM's JP2 theory. They use the quote regarding Rome to help prove their point, but they are ignoring other parts of the same message. It is also true that previous to their current material they held Pope Benedict XV to be the first of the seven kings. This was changed after B16 was elected. In regards to the two witnesses, LaSalette mentions Enoch and Elias will combat the Antichrist. Many of MHFM supporters believe the Dimonds are the two witnesses. I think this is an error on the supporters part, but it's quite dangerous. When one believes that these two brothers are the two witnesses of the Apocalypse, you are inclined to agree with everything they say and do. You can see this in some of the supporters, they become cult-like.

I used to think that JP2 was the Antichrist without a doubt. Now, I am more inclined to believe we are in the advent of Antichrist and JP2 was a precursor. As I said, the Dimond's end time information is quite compelling. I know Gemmarose said that Brother Michael said Maitraya was the Antichrist in the 90s. He didn't specifically word it that way. He said he thought that Maitraya was a possible candidate.

In closing, I think they have produced some great works, I think they let themselves down by their treatment and bitter zeal (as Lad would say). I think the bitter zeal does a lot of harm and undoes a lot of good work. I wish they weren't as dogmatic on non - dogmatic issues, but that is pretty much true of all the Trad groups.

Lastly, as I am new here, I would like to kindly ask any of you who read this to pray a Hail Mary for me. I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.
Since you were an avid supporter of the dimonds, did you attend Mass?
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 08:55:31 PM
Hello All,

I am a new member on this forum, but I have consistently read posts for a number of years on this forum. I have always found Ladislaus's posts to be particularly helpful when I've read them.

I would like to add my two cents on the Dimond brothers. Previously, I was an avid supporter of MHFM. I watched every video, listened to every audio, read every article that they have produced in the last fifteen years. I also have viewed a lot of their material produced in the 1990s. As many of you know, they promote one of the promises made to Saint Benedict. That is order will play a special role at the end of the world. They believe they are that order. I also believed this for a long time.

There are various observations I will make, that one may view as critical. However, the criticism that  some people assert about the Dimond brothers doing this for money is absurd and obviously false. They essentially give all of their material away for free, either on the websites or platforms like YouTube. There is not one single piece of material behind a paywall. Also, when I would purchase material over the years, they would send me what I ordered with a bunch of other items also thrown in. I know others have also had this experience with them too. Not to the mention, the DVDs and books are very cheap to purchase. To criticize them in this way is just plain wrong.

As I mentioned, I was an avid supporter of their work for long time. What changed? As I began to progress spiritually, becoming more familiar with the lives and examples of the saints, I began to not be able to square some of the Dimond brother's behavior towards people. I too, had taken on some of their traits. I began to realize that they sometimes would be quite cold and uncharitable and impatient with people. I began to see the error of the ways. I can give examples and links for anything that I write here, if anyone requires proof. In various discussions with people they declare certain people to be of "bad will" "diabolically influenced", "possessed", "don't care about the truth..." etc. These were mainly referred to those professing to be Catholic and/or Trad Catholic. Once they confirm that someone believes something heretical, they say they're bad willed or something equivalent to that. I began to realize that we have no real way of knowing these things. During their debates, a person may stumble or seem confused and the Dimond brother will quickly label that person to be a "liar" or a "complete liar". Or perhaps, even possessed by a demon. I could see that this behavior was not helpful in trying to spread the Catholic faith and maybe even drives people away from the church. We know from Church history some conversions happen rapidly and others at a slower pace. Saint Augustine took years to convert and he had the prayers of Saint Monica to aid in his conversion. I find the Dimond brother's treatment of some people to be very unfair at the times.

There are some inconsistences in their thinking. For example, it's well known that Brother Michael Dimond spoke out against Sedevacantism in the 1990s. In this talk he did declare that John Paul II was a heretic but that he remained the pope. They say that Brother Michael was influenced by Father Wathen in this regard. That he was mistaken on these matters and that an allowance for Brother Michael's mistake on this should be given. Fair enough! However, they don't afford the same courtesy today in regards to sedevacantism. People might say "well Francis is so notorious and in 2022 we have a wealth of information via online...". Sedes in the 1990s could pretty much say the same thing in regards to Brother Michael. They could easily say "JP2 is such a heretic and apostate, brother Michael even called him a heretic, yet accepts him as the pope, this is bad will..." Of course that statement would be unfair to Brother Michael, it's also unfair for the Dimond brothers to chalk most traditionalists errors up to bad will. Anyone who was a dedicated reader of their website will know that they tend to bind consciences on various issues. Including some cօռspιʀαcιҽs that they believe. For example, they have said in the past that if someone sees the evidence regarding 9/11 and doesn't accept that it is a conspiracy, it's a mortal sin. I really think they go too far on this. They don't accept people to just be error, its that the person is bad willed, a liar, a diabolical heretic etc. I myself fell into this over time. I would assume the ways of the person's heart, until I realized this is really wrong.

A good example of behavior which I think is wrong is their video on Bishop Dolan. The title of the video and bringing Bishop Dolan's tweet into the video, implies that he died because he bad mouthed them. I can assure you that many of their readers and supporters believe this. They go onto presume he is in Hell, since we cannot pray for him according to them. They have done this with various trad clergy throughout the years. Correct me if I am wrong, but we cannot presume the final destination of any soul other that Judas? We do not know what grace God gives anyone right up until the person dies. The fact that they make videos like that does seem cold to me. Bear in mind, there was a time I would have supported those videos.

I do not hold Baptism of Desire or Baptism of blood. However, I think the Dimond brothers go too far on this issue too. I do believe that one may hold those positions as long as it is consistent with the various Doctors and Saints of the Church who held those positions. I believe those positions to be demonstrably false, but as the Church as not officially condemned these ideas, and they are in various books of the church, a Catholic can hold these positions and remain a Catholic. The Dimond brothers would likely label most a outright heretic if they don't agree with their position on the matter. Again, they go further than needed and label more people as bad willed and having no care for the Catholic faith. Whereas, reason tells me that if a person is going to a sede chapel, if they didn't care at all about the faith, there is a much easier life to be had at the local novus ordo "church". With maybe few exceptions, I think we can agree that anyone claiming to be Trad probably has some care for the faith, otherwise they wouldn't take certain actions. Yet the Dimond brothers can tell these people they don't care about the truth one bit. Following these examples, I have seen their supports be bitter, spiteful and outright insulting to people. This does cause me concern, as by their fruits you shall know them. I have seen their supporters ask series of questions until the person finally gives a wrong answer and then the Dimond supporter will condemn the person. Usually in a distasteful way. The way in which many of those supporters behave, does not line up with Christian virtues.  These kind of things got me to move away from MHFM. This is a crisis in the Church and I believe we need to give as many people the benefit of the doubt. It is possible that many are trying their best to preserve the faith in this unprecedented crisis. The bitterness of MHFM does not help people.

In regards to their material regarding the end times, I believe it is quite compelling. Although, I do not agree with all of it, unsure on some it and agree with parts. I think we are in the Great Apostasy. I think what's happening in Rome is a great example of this point. If one watches their videos regarding the end times, it is not easy to argue with. I would appreciate someone with knowledge debating them on the end times. With that said, I think there is some gaps in their antichrist theory. It is just a fact that most of the writings of the Church fathers and saints throughout history does not line up with the Dimond's analysis on the Antichrist. They also use a part of Our Lady of La Salette often about this. 

"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist..."

We know that La Salette also says he will be born of Hebrew nun and his father would be a bishop. Here is another excerpt from the message.

There shall  be wars until the last war, which shall be waged by the ten kings of Antichrist. All these Kings shall a common design, and they only shall  govern the world.

We know that this doesn't fit with MHFM's JP2 theory. They use the quote regarding Rome to help prove their point, but they are ignoring other parts of the same message. It is also true that previous to their current material they held Pope Benedict XV to be the first of the seven kings. This was changed after B16 was elected. In regards to the two witnesses, LaSalette mentions Enoch and Elias will combat the Antichrist. Many of MHFM supporters believe the Dimonds are the two witnesses. I think this is an error on the supporters part, but it's quite dangerous. When one believes that these two brothers are the two witnesses of the Apocalypse, you are inclined to agree with everything they say and do. You can see this in some of the supporters, they become cult-like.

I used to think that JP2 was the Antichrist without a doubt. Now, I am more inclined to believe we are in the advent of Antichrist and JP2 was a precursor. As I said, the Dimond's end time information is quite compelling. I know Gemmarose said that Brother Michael said Maitraya was the Antichrist in the 90s. He didn't specifically word it that way. He said he thought that Maitraya was a possible candidate.

In closing, I think they have produced some great works, I think they let themselves down by their treatment and bitter zeal (as Lad would say). I think the bitter zeal does a lot of harm and undoes a lot of good work. I wish they weren't as dogmatic on non - dogmatic issues, but that is pretty much true of all the Trad groups.

Lastly, as I am new here, I would like to kindly ask any of you who read this to pray a Hail Mary for me. I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.
Dimond's claim Natale had certain miraculous spiritual gifts & that God told Natale they would be the "beacon light of Catholicism before the end of the world." Why wouldn't God tell him that Jp II was the antichrist then? Here is a video from a ex dimond  supporter.  The Bad Will of Brother Joseph Natale, Founder of MHFM (vaticancatholic) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOSUUkmvpCE&t=196s)
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 09:00:18 PM
You only come out of the woodwork when the Dimonds are spoken of. Get over your personal grudge.
Hi, I don't have a grudge. Why is it called a grudge when I'm just correcting their ideas?
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 09:04:43 PM
You only come out of the woodwork when the Dimonds are spoken of. Get over your personal grudge.
Are you a 100% dimond supporter? Do you attend a valid Mass? Do you get paid by the dimonds to falsely accuse people (me)?  All I'm doing is telling the truth! I don't believe in bod and reject Vatican II. So, what's your problem?
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Incredulous on May 16, 2022, 09:42:28 PM
https://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2020/04/infiltration-who-is-really-doing-it.html

Excerpts:
You can believe what you like about him, but linked above is a handy list and it only goes deeper if you actually do some research into Taylor Marshall and Opus Dei.



This is good dxcat40

Marshall is funded celebrity, an Opus judei talking head operative.  He's a Jєω and admitted lover of the JPII fake saint, Jose Escriva.

Marshall replaced the tired-out, ex queer and fake trad, Michael Voris, who broadcasts his rants from an old Opus judei office building.

Opus judei uses imposter traditionalist as "talking heads" to herd the Catholic remnant.

Until Archbishop Vigano renounces his association with Opus judei, I'd consider him a talking-head too.

Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 16, 2022, 09:55:01 PM

Until Archbishop Vigano renounces his association with Opus judei, I'd consider him a talking-head too.
There was a recent MHFM video on tradservative persona Anthony Stine aka "Return To Tradition" which showed that the Google algorithm actually SELECTS for Vigano tags, rather than hides him. That's suspicious to me.

9:50 in the following
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5V3hY7c5yA
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 16, 2022, 10:24:58 PM
Hello again, the dimonds said the maitreya was the antichrist in the late 90's in their Biblical End Times prophecies video.
Hello again. Ok so here is the exact quote Frederick Dimond said in the 90's version  "Biblical End Times Prophecies"    "Now the person I think may very well be the Antichrist, a man called Lord Maitreya. I don't know absolutely. I'm not saying I know these things. I'm just putting out information. It's up to you to decide."  Then they changed that to the different popes they were calling antichrists, which it reminds me of protestant theories. That's all.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Byzantine7 on May 16, 2022, 11:25:31 PM
Since you were an avid supporter of the dimonds, did you attend Mass?
I attended a Indult Mass for a period of years. In 2014 the Dimond brothers wrote an article essentially saying Catholics shouldn't do this. I made the mistake of giving up attending. That's an issue they have no business binding consciences on. After that, I began to attend Divine Liturgy at an Eastern Catholic Church.

 
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Byzantine7 on May 16, 2022, 11:45:11 PM
I don't disagree with a single thing you have said. Their attitude is the most concerning thing about them, and I've posted about that many times here before (the Bp. Dolan thread being the most recent). It's obviously a hidden pride that is effecting them in their exchanges with others, so I've been praying for them.

As for the JPII is Antichrist subject, like I initially said I agree with a lot of their points which prove without a doubt that JPII was AN Antichrist, it remains to be seen if he is THE Antichrist, but again, their evidence is compelling.

I'll pray for you.
Yes, I myself have suspected that Pride may be effecting them. For instance, in 2010 in their series "Is the world about to end?" they mention that they believe the volcanic eruption in Iceland is one of the vials of the Apocalypse being poured on the beast.  In the Bro. Peter Dimond says "Its quite interesting this week as we were finalizing the more important of this recent video series, that we believe the EU is part of the beast, a volcano erupted in Iceland. Sending a dark ash cloud over Europe..."

They believed that this may have been the fulfillment of Apocalypse 16:10. One can tell that it is implied that this fulfillment is to confirm their opinions on the Apocalypse. Then years later, in 2017 they released another video. In which they say a power outage in Brussels, Belgium is the fulfillment of Apocalypse 16:10. They assert that this was the fulfilment because they were on Coast to Coast Radio the night before. Again, prophecy's being fulfilled to confirm what they're saying. I think they're off the mark there! It's a rather presumptive way of thinking. 

Thank you for your prayers.

Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Miser Peccator on May 16, 2022, 11:55:46 PM


This is good dxcat40

Marshall is funded celebrity, an Opus judei talking head operative.  He's a Jєω and admitted lover of the JPII fake saint, Jose Escriva.

Marshall replaced the tired-out, ex queer and fake trad, Michael Voris, who broadcasts his rants from an old Opus judei office building.

Opus judei uses imposter traditionalist as "talking heads" to herd the Catholic remnant.

Until Archbishop Vigano renounces his association with Opus judei, I'd consider him a talking-head too.


Those things have to be kept in mind.  Plus even though Archbishop Vigano says the right things, he still promotes Trump and Benedict XVI--

---while exposing the "deep state"?

That just doesn't make sense.

He's still fond for the guy who wants to be known as the "Father of the Vaccine" and was pals with Epstein and Maxwell for over 30 years

and the Pope who wore a mitre with the Jєωιѕн star and stated that there is no mission to convert the Jєωs and they don't wait for their messiah in vain.

Who is this messiah they are waiting for?  The Moshiach---Antichrist!







Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Miser Peccator on May 17, 2022, 12:00:30 AM
When Vigano calls out Benedict XVI, I'll start to take him seriously.

14min 16sec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA1GxxUmV3k&feature=emb_logo
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Miser Peccator on May 17, 2022, 01:18:27 AM
If Vigano and Marshall want to expose the "Deep State" then why didn't they expose this?

Ivanka Trump visits the Lubavitcher rebbe’s grave ahead of election

https://www.jta.org/2016/11/06/politics/ivanka-trump-visits-the-lubavitcher-rebbes-grave-ahead-of-election



So Trump kids are praying at the grave of the Rebbe Schneerson, who Chabad believed was the messiah and led Jєωs to believe that redemption by sin would bring forth the Moshiach, for help with Trump's election.

Trump who flew on the Lolita Express and said that Epstein is a great friend who likes beautiful women almost as much as he does and "I'll tell you something else.  He likes them young."

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/01/jeffrey-epstein-and-donald-trump-epic-bromance

Vigano is warning Trump about the Deep State??  Like he doesn't know??

Vigano and Marshall are warning the world about Francis and declaring that Benedict is still pope as if that is any better??

This all stinks to high Heaven and looks like a set up.

Beware "The Savior" who comes after the destruction.



Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Miser Peccator on May 17, 2022, 02:21:57 AM
From what I understand, and I haven't read the book so correct me if I'm wrong, but I've asked people who have read Taylor Marshall's book, Infiltration, and it seems to leave out a certain group of people involved.

Perhaps if he had read what St Maxilimillian Kolbe had to say about the Freemasonic infiltration he could have included that in his book.

This is from Wikipedia:

Kolbe has been accused of antisemitism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism). In 1926, in the first issue of the monthly Knight of the Immaculate, Kolbe said he considered Freemasons "as an organized clique of fanatical Jєωs, who want to destroy the church."[29] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Kolbe#cite_note-29) In a calendar that the publishing house of his organization, the Militia of the Immaculate, published in an edition of a million in 1939, Kolbe wrote, "Atheistic Communism seems to rage ever more wildly. Its origin can easily be located in that criminal mafia that calls itself Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, and the hand that is guiding all that toward a clear goal is international Zionism. Which should not be taken to mean that even among Jєωs one cannot find good people."[30] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Kolbe#cite_note-30) Newspapers he published printed articles about topics such as a Zionist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism) plot for world domination.[31] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Kolbe#cite_note-Dershowitz1992-31)[32] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Kolbe#cite_note-jta-32)[33] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Kolbe#cite_note-Michael2008-33)



This would be some good information to add to his book:
5min 23sec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lavlYdFVOFc



With all of his research on the Freemasonic infiltration of the Church, why he didn't come across this information?

He also refused to have E Michael Jones (another shill but one who discusses the JQ) on his show.  I wonder why?
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Ladislaus on May 17, 2022, 07:00:39 AM
Hello All,
...
I would like to add my two cents on the Dimond brothers.
...
Lastly, as I am new here, I would like to kindly ask any of you who read this to pray a Hail Mary for me. I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.

This is an incredibly well balanced post, and it's a breath of fresh air to read.  I feel precisely the same way about the Dimond Brothers, that they have done a tremendous amount of good and are right about almost every position they've taken (even if every once in a while their logic is a bit off IMO), but that they have succuмbed to bitter zeal.  I have been praying for them.  At the same time, most of those who despise the Dimonds (and I don't use the term "despise" lightly or loosely here) have a similarly-bitter and contemptuous attitude toward THEM, and this has in fact contributed to the bitter zeal that they themselves have slid into.  One might say it's a bit hypocritical.  Bishop Dolan started in on a rather uncharitable attack against them, and yet he's not criticized for that, only the Dimond Brothers after they responded in kind.  It's OK to bash the Dimond Brothers, and "open season" has been declared against them by a lot of Trads.  So it's OK for people to slander and deride the Dimond Brothers, but then when they respond in kind, oh the horror, look at the lack of charity.  When people attack them as bitterly and ruthlessly as they do, anyone would be tempted to become bitter.  They are not wrong to a point when they hold that many of their opponents are of bad will.  You can see that in particular on the EENS issue, where it often becomes obvious that most people who have a "loose" interpretation of EENS simply don't WANT to believe the dogma as-is.  But there's this kind of "bad will" and there's a more malicious bad will, and I think it's important to distinguish.  They also often accuse people of "mortal" sin, and that's a matter of the internal forum, so they need to start referring to grave sin instead of mortal.  They do too much judging of the internal forum.

But I pray for them, and I found their video about Taylor Marshall to be very well balanced and extremely charitable ... and I hope and pray that it's a trend that continues.  Even their video about Bishop Dolan was a lot more measured than it used to be.  In the past, one could almost detect a tone of delight when a certain "heretic" passed away and were, in their judgment, now in hell.

In any case, with Taylor Marshall, they used a lot of more balanced terms, that he's confused, in contradiction with himself, etc.  And they adequately demonstrated that in their video.  But they never hurled around the terms declaring him to be of "bad will" or even the word "heretic".  I think it's clear that Taylor Marshall is not of bad will, but that he is confused, and who isn't confused by this diabolical confusion these days?  Perhaps they could at least come to the realization that they could be a lot more persuasive if they were to put aside the harsh and bitter rhetoric.

I think that part of the reason they go into the internal forum is due to their emphasis on MANIFEST heresy as excluding from the Church.  But the quote they held up their from St. Robert Bellarmine in his video reinforces the fact that we cannot know or judge the internal forum, and that's why we stick to manifest heresy.  But I think that one element of MANIFEST heresy is that the pertinacity also needs to be manifest.  You can't just say, "he just made a heretical statement.  He's outside the Church."  Someone could have simply misspoken or tripped up.  From there, the Dimonds then argue that if one has them been shown all the evidence and the arguments and they persist in their heresy, and yet persist in their error, then they are to be presumed pertinacious heretics.  Problem there is that the Dimonds don't have any authority, and even the best syllogism contains elements of human reasoning.  OK, the argument looks solid, but did they miss a distinction here or there?  And every once in a while, I do feel as if they've missed a distinction.

As you point out, some of the criticisms of them are extremely petty, the claim that theirs is a money-making operation.  I experienced the same thing you describe where after I placed an order, they threw in a bunch of extra stuff which left me thinking they had lost money on the transaction.  They're definitely not about money.  They have a true zeal for the truth and for spreading it.  And then there's the nonsense about how they're "fake" religious.  What does that mean these days?  All Traditional religious are technically fake religious.  No one is canonically approved where they would be considered official religious in normal times of the Church.  I give them the same respect as I do to other Traditional religious.  I do tend to call them the Dimond Brothers (rather than by their religious names), but that's only because I'm terrible with names and don't really get who is who of the two Brothers.  But I capitalize Brothers, and I respect them for what they have done.  They make great videos and do a lot of good, and I continue to pray for them that they soften their bitterness, because I strongly believe that they could do 10x more good if they were to do so, and could be much more persuasive.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Ladislaus on May 17, 2022, 07:08:21 AM
From what I understand, and I haven't read the book so correct me if I'm wrong, but I've asked people who have read Taylor Marshall's book, Infiltration, and it seems to leave out a certain group of people involved.
...
With all of his research on the Freemasonic infiltration of the Church, why he didn't come across this information?

He also refused to have E Michael Jones (another shill but one who discusses the JQ) on his show.  I wonder why?

It's probably because he's terrified of the backlash and of being called Anti-semitic.  I may be wrong, but I suspect that Taylor makes his living off his public persona, his channel and books, etc. ... and so I imagine that being blacklisted would have a serious impact on him.  For that reason, he probably chooses to stay away from that subject.  That's one reason I admire Patrick Coffin's recently coming out as a Bennyvacantist (even though I disagree with the position itself).  That pretty much put a nail in the coffin (pun intended) of his EWTN appearances, and he's going to be more and more marginalized from his normal sources of income.  I had been in the habit of listening to his show in the afternoons on EWTN radio, as I went to pick up my kids from school every day about that time.  And I sensed more and more that he was becoming hostile to Bergoglio and a few times came within a hair's breadth of calling Bergoglio an outright heretic.  So I was wondering how much longer before his show was off the air.  I was not mistaken in detecting that tone from him.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: dxcat40 on May 17, 2022, 07:35:30 AM
It's probably because he's terrified of the backlash and of being called Anti-semitic. ...

Oh really? :clown:

I actually forgot that our own Mark79 even has an entire page (https://judaism.is/opus-dei.html) dedicated to the topic of Opus Dei:


Quote
Spanish Jєω Reveals Secret History of Opus Judei
 
The following explanation is sent by a collaborator of Hebrew origin and Kabbalistic practice who for years was shown as Catholic, but who finally decided to make use of her secret identity to particularize and clarify some of the practices of kabbalists who infiltrated in the Catholic Church for centuries, and now in the Neo Conciliar Church.
 
On this occasion he reveals to us something of what had spread about the Marrano José María Escriv(b)a [note: parenthetical spelling might refer to Escriva’s name change from the judaic Escriba] to Balaguer y Albás, founder of Opus Dei, and he does it from the Hebrew point of view:
 
When you talk about the Opus Dei as Kabbalists, you have to specify something. They are not just a group of people who practice the Hebrew kabbalah disguised as devout Catholics, but something else.…

Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Jaycie on May 17, 2022, 07:52:14 AM
.  That's one reason I admire Patrick Coffin's recently coming out as a Bennyvacantist (even though I disagree with the position itself).  That pretty much put a nail in the coffin (pun intended) of his EWTN appearances, and he's going to be more and more marginalized from his normal sources of income.  I had been in the habit of listening to his show in the afternoons on EWTN radio, as I went to pick up my kids from school every day about that time.  And I sensed more and more that he was becoming hostile to Bergoglio and a few times came within a hair's breadth of calling Bergoglio an outright heretic.  So I was wondering how much longer before his show was off the air.  I was not mistaken in detecting that tone from him.

Didn't Mother Teresa set up EWTN with the help of Jєωιѕн money at the beginning so they are basically Novus Ordo with a light touch of Tradition, and they they are more or less part of the controlled opposition anyway.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: epiphany on May 17, 2022, 08:28:44 AM


This is good dxcat40

Marshall is funded celebrity, an Opus judei talking head operative.  He's a Jєω and admitted lover of the JPII fake saint, Jose Escriva.

Marshall replaced the tired-out, ex queer and fake trad, Michael Voris, who broadcasts his rants from an old Opus judei office building.

Opus judei uses imposter traditionalist as "talking heads" to herd the Catholic remnant.

Until Archbishop Vigano renounces his association with Opus judei, I'd consider him a talking-head too.

I always felt strange when I saw Marshall at mass.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Ladislaus on May 17, 2022, 08:30:12 AM
As with all conspiracy theories, to render them plausible you have to provide a reasonable cui bono?.

I have yet to see anything that +Vigano has done that benefits the conspirators.  If he were an agent of controlled opposition, he'd be herding people back into the Conciliar Church, Motu and FSSP style, but instead he's swung clearly to the RIGHT of the FSSP and SSPX on several issues.  He's standing a hair's breadth away from sedevacantism, and currently seems to be of a Resistance mindset.  He's even made a reference to the Jєωs being involved in the attack on the Church.

So this conspiracy theory I consider to be total bunk.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 17, 2022, 08:32:29 AM
And then there's the nonsense about how they're "fake" religious.  What does that mean these days?  All Traditional religious are technically fake religious.  No one is canonically approved where they would be considered official religious in normal times of the Church.  I give them the same respect as I do to other Traditional religious.
That's a very good point. Endless respect is offered to the trad religious as long as they adhere to some "official" order, but very little to MHFM who are accused of being fake Benedictines when literally all trad religious vows these days are nothing more than personal vows. It's the same inconsistency where some will call Vigano "Archbishop" but then refuse to call some sede bishops "Bishop" when they doubt the orders of both.

MHFM does honestly far more good through preaching and apologetics than most of the trad clergy out there because of their unrelenting orthodoxy. And it is far from unheard of for lay-religious to do this (the Franciscans, for starters) After watching the video in the OP, and seeing the St. Bellarmine quote, I actually have a better understanding of why they are forceful about pointing out heretics. This doesn't excuse their lack of charity by telling people not to pray for souls such as Bp. Dolan, or exaggerating someone's apparent heresy or apostasy as "radical" or what have you. So they need prayers in that regard, and you do see a softening of this with Dr. Marshall.

Last night I came across an article which contains some insight into their view of heretics on material/formal grounds:


Quote
Material Heretic vs. Formal Heretic

Some confuse this issue unnecessarily by employing the term “material heretic.”  Some of the people who have realized John Paul II’s major contradictions to Catholic teaching argue that John Paul II is merely a “material heretic”, not a real “formal heretic.”  “Material heretic” is a term used by theologians to describe a Catholic erring in good faith regarding some Church teaching, who has not denied it deliberately.  The only way that one can be a “material heretic” is by being unaware that the position that he holds is contrary to the teaching of the Church.  Such a person would change his position immediately upon being informed of the Church’s teaching on the matter.  Thus, a so-called “material heretic” is not a heretic at all, but rather a confused Catholic who denies nothing of that which he knows the Church to have taught.  The fact that a so-called “material heretic” is not a heretic is proven by the fact that a so-called “material heretic” does not cease to be part of the Church; and we have already proven that all heretics cease to be members of the Church.  Furthermore, a so-called “material heretic” (an erring Catholic) does not bring down on his head eternal punishment for denying the faith; and all heretics bring down on their heads eternal punishment for denying the faith.

Pope St. Celestine I, Council of Ephesus, 431: “… ALL HERETICS corrupt the true expressions of the Holy Spirit with their own evil minds and they draw down on their own heads an inextinguishable flame.”

A material heretic, therefore, is not a heretic, but a Catholic who is innocently mistaken about some Church teaching.  Hence, those who claim that John Paul II is unaware of the all of the dogmas that he denies, and is therefore only a quote “material heretic” (in other words, he is a mistaken Catholic) are not only arguing that which is absurd, but that which is IMPOSSIBLE.  It is impossible that John Paul II is only a so-called “material heretic” for three reasons:

Number 1) It is a fact that Antipope John Paul II knows of the many dogmas of the Church which he denies.  For example, in the 1999 agreement with the Lutheran Church on Justification, approved by John Paul II, John Paul II agreed that the Council of Trent no longer applies.

Vatican-Lutheran Agreement on the Doctrine of Justification, approved by John Paul II: “# 13.  IN LIGHT OF THIS CONSENSUS, THE CORRESPONDING DOCTRINAL CONDEMNATIONS OF THE 16TH CENTURY [i.e., the canons of the Council of Trent] DO NOT APPLY TO TODAY’S PARTNER.” (L’Osservatore Romano, Special Insert, Joint Declaration of the Doctrine of Justification, November 24, 1999, #13)

It goes without saying that he cannot be unaware of the Council of Trent if he holds that it no longer applies.  This, among other things, makes the claim that Antipope John Paul II is only a material heretic impossible.  In fact, John Paul II speaks 14 languages fluently, and has spoken and written intelligently on scholarly subjects more than most people would ever dream.  The amount of material that he has produced is actually staggering.  To assert that he is unaware of the simplest Church teachings that he denies is false and ridiculous in the highest degree.

Number 2) It is impossible for Antipope John Paul II to be only a “material heretic” or a mistaken Catholic because – supposing for a moment that he were unaware of the multitudes of dogmas which he denies (which, as we have stated, is not true) – being a bishop and a man who claims to be the Pope, he is bound to have learned them.  Therefore, there is no excuse for his being unaware of the fundamental Church dogmas which he denies.

Number 3) It is impossible that Antipope John Paul II is merely a material heretic because there are certain things that every adult must hold by a necessity of means in order to be a Catholic, and Antipope John Paul II does not hold those things.  To name just a few things: every adult Catholic must believe in the Trinity; that there is only one true Church; that there is only one true faith.  An adult Catholic must also believe that the true Church must be believed and that all non-Catholic religions are false.

John Paul II rejects that there is only one true Church and one true faith, as we will show; he rejects that the Catholic Church should be believed by non-Catholics, by saying that we should not try to convert non-Catholics, as we will show; and he rejects the fact that non-Catholic religions are false, as we will show.  It is not possible for a person who has reached the age of reason to believe these things and still be a Catholic, because such a person does not believe in essential mysteries that must be believed by those who possess the true faith.

https://vaticancatholic.com/anti-pope-john-paul-ii/




Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Ladislaus on May 17, 2022, 08:33:16 AM
When Vigano calls out Benedict XVI, I'll start to take him seriously.

Another statement made from ignorance by a person who hasn't read what +Vigano has written. He HAS criticized BXVI, JP2, Paul VI ... all of them.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 17, 2022, 08:36:13 AM
Another statement made from ignorance by a person who hasn't read what +Vigano has written. He HAS criticized BXVI, JP2, Paul VI ... all of them.
He literally came out and said we need to toss out Vatican II entirely. Not even the SSPX says that anymore.

I only brought up the YouTube algorithm as a point of note, this isn't to say +Vigano is "in on it" or anything. At worst TPTB may be using his position to divide and conquer Catholics, but, as we know, that will not work out in their favor given his recent swing to Catholic orthodoxy.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Ladislaus on May 17, 2022, 08:43:58 AM
He literally came out and said we need to toss out Vatican II entirely. Not even the SSPX says that anymore.

SSPX says that V2 is 95% good and needs a few corrections (along the lines of Bishop Schneider).

+Vigano recently said there should be an investigation into whether Bergoglio is legitimate.  He was dead set against the jab and calling out the conspiracy of the Plandemic.  His original June 9 letter (his anti-V2 manifesto) to Bishop Schneider called out all the V2 papal claimants, including Benedict XVI and said that the entire thing needed to be scrubbed.  He recently came out in favor of the pre-Pius XII Holy Week.

So for those who claim he's some kind of controlled opposition, I insist that you provide an explanation of what exactly they're accomplishing.  Cui bono?  He's keeping people from going full-blown SV?  Nobody who wasn't against SVism in the first place.  If anything, he's drawing people mired in the conservative wing of the Conciliar Church to the right.  So why would the conspirators think that's a good idea?

I can easily see +Fellay, +Schneider, and +Voris being controlled opposition ... but I have yet to see a credible charge against +Vigano nor a convincing explanation of what they're trying to accomplishing by raising up a figure like +Vigano.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: LeMond on May 17, 2022, 09:03:25 AM
Nobody can bend heretics into human pretzels like the Dimond brothers :laugh1:
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: LeDeg on May 17, 2022, 09:35:01 AM
I have spoken to a well known Society priest about +Vigano and he informed me that the Society leadership considers him "too extreme" and want nothing to do with him.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Degrelle on May 17, 2022, 09:38:13 AM
I have spoken to a well known Society priest about +Vigano and he informed me that the Society leadership considers him "too extreme" and want nothing to do nothing him.
Clearly I need to read/watch more of what +Vigano has to say. I'll admit I've largely ignored him as I tend to simply ignore everything that comes out of the Novus Ordo same as I ignore the Anglicans and Lutherans.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Jaycie on May 17, 2022, 10:15:53 AM
Didn't Mother Teresa set up EWTN with the help of Jєωιѕн money at the beginning so they are basically Novus Ordo with a light touch of Tradition, and they they are more or less part of the controlled opposition anyway.
Correction:  of course I meant Mother Angelica not Mother Teresa!  Must have caught some of that brain fog from the vaxxed!  :cowboy:
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 17, 2022, 10:16:08 AM
Clearly I need to read/watch more of what +Vigano has to say. I'll admit I've largely ignored him as I tend to simply ignore everything that comes out of the Novus Ordo same as I ignore the Anglicans and Lutherans.
His letters tend to read kind of like papal encyclicals. He's been right on the mark the past couple of years ever since this scamdemic started. Here's some of his remarks about Vatican 2 from 2020
https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=12379

On the "idolatry" of Vatican 2
https://www.catholicity.com/vigano/2021-02-03.html

More:
https://www.catholicity.com/vigano/
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Ladislaus on May 17, 2022, 11:06:15 AM
Nobody can bend heretics into human pretzels like the Dimond brothers :laugh1:

Yes, every once in a while, it's fun to watch them go after errors like bulldogs ... if they don't cross the line into bitterness. 
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: dxcat40 on May 17, 2022, 12:26:51 PM
... So for those who claim he's some kind of controlled opposition, I insist that you provide an explanation of what exactly they're accomplishing. ...
It would be a topic all on its own, but recently he's helped confirm your Duginistic opinions ("Holy Mother Russia" vs "Globohomo") and probably ensured people on the Alt-Right will be imprisoned or even shot as terrorists in the near future in the case of a Russian tactical nuclear strike. Rabbis have said that they will turn the people against the Patriots, and because so many people have been deceived by the narrative that Vigano helps push, it seems more and more likely that this will come to fruition.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Ladislaus on May 17, 2022, 12:48:21 PM
It would be a topic all on its own, but recently he's helped confirm your Duginistic opinions ("Holy Mother Russia" vs "Globohomo") and probably ensured people on the Alt-Right will be imprisoned or even shot as terrorists in the near future in the case of a Russian tactical nuclear strike. Rabbis have said that they will turn the people against the Patriots, and because so many people have been deceived by the narrative that Vigano helps push, it seems more and more likely that this will come to fruition.

Your disagreeing with him on one or another opinion doesn't make him controlled opposition, especially when it's a political matter.  I doubt "they" deployed +Vigano a few years ago now just so he opine (in your opinion) wrongly about the Russia situation.  [He's right about that too.]  I could have seen it if he had been, say, shilling for the jab, but he's been condemning pretty much every step of the Globohomo / Globalist agenda.  So this is not particularly convincing.  In fact, it's as weak as all getout.

So a plausible controlled op conspiracy theory would have been.  +Vigano comes out and wins the confidence of Trad Catholics.  Then when the Plandemic starts, he's telling people it's morally OK to get the jab.  Something like that would be plausible.  But he didn't shill for the jab ... he condemned it more strongly than most Trad groups.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Pax Vobis on May 17, 2022, 02:27:44 PM
Quote
Rabbis have said that they will turn the people against the Patriots
This has been going on for the last 40-50 years, where have you been?  The phrase "Right wing extremism" goes back to the 90s.  The Oklahoma bombing and the unibomber were supposedly white patriots who hated the govt.  Then the feds have been infiltrating militias for decades and blaming them for all manner of terrorism.


Now, if you're white, have a normal marriage, have children you don't want corrupted by trannys, and you support 'building a wall' you're a racist nutjob.  This is just the culmination of decades of psychological warfare.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 17, 2022, 04:00:33 PM
Now, if you're white, have a normal marriage, have children you don't want corrupted by trannys, and you support 'building a wall' you're a racist nutjob.  This is just the culmination of decades of psychological warfare.
That's literally how my wife reacted toward me this past weekend when we were out for a town festival and my daughter asked for a rainbow flag because some other girl had one. I said "hell no" and my wife decided to undercut me by telling my daughter that "I'm judgmental" quipping that it doesn't even effect me. I had to remind her that they literally teach this "shit" in schools these days to children, not to mention streaming and the internet. She decided to pout the rest of the afternoon after that and didn't bring it up again.

It's insane how deep the psychological programming goes. I sympathize with her because it took me about 3 years and a conversion to Catholicism to undo it, I know it's hard. Yet my wife is still surprised of my views even though I have been a practicing Catholic for 4 years now. :facepalm::facepalm:
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 17, 2022, 04:01:07 PM
I attended a Indult Mass for a period of years. In 2014 the Dimond brothers wrote an article essentially saying Catholics shouldn't do this. I made the mistake of giving up attending. That's an issue they have no business binding consciences on. After that, I began to attend Divine Liturgy at an Eastern Catholic Church.

 
Thanks for your response. Yes, I have read what you mentioned about their article. I'm sure the lacking of the sacraments & not attending Mass is why they act like they do, like immediately calling people heretics, moron, punk etc..... I see how they act on social media and have screenshots. 
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 17, 2022, 04:04:56 PM
Thanks for your response. Yes, I have read what you mentioned about their article. I'm sure the lacking of the sacraments & not attending Mass is why they act like they do, like immediately calling people heretics, moron, punk etc..... I see how they act on social media and have screenshots.
Just to make it clear....A valid Mass with a validly ordained priest, not Vatican II.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 17, 2022, 04:08:28 PM
I'm sure the lacking of the sacraments & not attending Mass is why they act like they do, like immediately calling people heretics, moron, punk etc
That's a legitimate point. I know how I get when I've gone even a couple weeks without them. All we can do is pray for them.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: dxcat40 on May 17, 2022, 04:08:45 PM
Your disagreeing with him on one or another opinion doesn't make him controlled opposition, especially when it's a political matter. ...

It's all just opinion, is it? That is, until someone disagrees with yours, and then you call that person an idiot and a probable Jєωιѕн shill? Your post here is just a bit too disingenuous. I realize it is popular to believe that Fr. Vigano is papabile and that Putin is just an ex-KGB Russian nationalist who changed for the better when someone else started murdering Russians before he could.

Anyway, your downplaying Fr. Vigano and Putin is just your opinion. Look outside the Alt-Right and you might find it's not really about Russian nationalism.


This has been going on for the last 40-50 years, where have you been? ...

Yes, but if you follow the history of this movement the goal of it has never been for its own sake. Rather, the fulfillment of this purpose has not yet been fully realized. They want you dead, not just marginalized.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: gemmarose on May 17, 2022, 04:16:22 PM
That's a legitimate point. I know how I get when I've gone even a couple weeks without them. All we can do is pray for them.
 I would thumb up your response, but I can't because I'm not allowed.:laugh1:
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Miser Peccator on May 17, 2022, 07:00:50 PM
AB Vigano to the Reawaken America Rally 2 April, 2022:


"On March 6, the Russian Ambassador to the UN denounced what you have been advocating for two years: he declared that Donald Trump is the legitimate President of the United States, and that the election was falsified, with the complicity of European nations, using the Dominion apparatus. And we know that, in order to advance the agenda of the Great Reset, it was necessary to get rid of Trump, who would never have allowed either the pandemic farce or the escalation of the Russian-Ukrainian crisis."

How can he actually believe this?  In April 2022? 

Perhaps some more prayers to the Rebbe would help bring "The Father of the Vaccine" back and bring forth the Moshiach.

Trump said that he could shoot somebody in Times Square and people would still vote for him.  I believe it.

Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 17, 2022, 07:17:00 PM
How can he actually believe this?  In April 2022? 
He doesn't have impeccable judgment perhaps?
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Incredulous on May 17, 2022, 07:45:43 PM
The Dimonds, Voris, Marshall and Archbishop Vigano have good script writers.

What you need to consider, is that for the last 2,000 years the Jєωs have covertly attacked Catholicism through propaganda wars. They use their money to fund ghost writers.

For example, in 2006, the Dimonds published a brilliant sleight-of-handle article denouncing the Fatima devotion to the Consecration of Russia to Mother Mary’s Immaculate Heart.  The Dimonds didn’t write this.
They are just a front for Jєω propagandists.

Now, 90% of their publications sound good, but they are just rebranding other trad media.

Who on this forum has gone to meet the Dimonds, seen their workshops and know who is on their team? I know of a trad who tried to visit them and he was not allowed anywhere near the place.
And who funds the Dimonds?

They were giving out cases of DVD, “dark sede”stuff for decades.  Their mission is to demonize every trad priest or bishop they can spot.

Voris: What a joke, that Notre Dame “queen” is spoon fed Opus Dei scripts every week.

Taylor Marshall… another miraculous Marrano convert who became a media giant over night?  Do you really believe it?

And Archbishop Vigano… writing like a little leprechaun into the night! 
Who writes his stuff?  The writing does not match the way he speaks. 

And writing is really all he’s doing.  And oh, he has such a Hollywood, clandestine cover.
Hiding from Francis’s mossad henchmen.

Give me a talking head, who will slam the Jєωs, who will expose Opus judei…

And give me Bishop who doesn’t write ✍️ but one who ordains priests… to provide the Sacraments to the remnant as the whole world is being genocided.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 17, 2022, 07:49:34 PM
The Dimonds, Voris, Marshall and Archbishop Vigano have good script writers.

What you need to consider, is that for the last 2,000 years the Jєωs have covertly attacked Catholicism through propaganda wars. They their money to fund ghost writers.

For example, in 2006, the Dimonds published a brilliant sleight-of-handle article denouncing the Fatima devotion to the Consecration of Russia to Mother Mary’s Immaculate Heart.  The Dimonds didn’t write this.
They are just a front for Jєω propagandists.

Now, 90% of their publications sound good, but they are just rebranding other trad media.

Who on this forum has gone to meet the Dimonds, seen their workshops and know who is on their team? I know of a trad who tried to visit them and he was not allowed anywhere near the place.
And who funds the Dimonds?

They were giving out cases of DVD, “dark sede”stuff for decades.  Their mission is to demonize every trad priest or bishop they can spot.

Voris: What a joke, that Notre Dame “queen” is spoon fed Opus Dei scripts every week.

Taylor Marshall… another miraculous Marrano convert who became a media giant over night?  Do you really believe it?

And Archbishop Vigano… writing like a little leprechaun into the night! 
Who writes his stuff?  The writing does not match the way he speaks. 

And writing is really all he’s doing.  And oh, he has such a Hollywood, clandestine cover.
Hiding from Francis’s mossad henchmen.

Give me a talking head, who will slam the Jєωs, who will expose Opus judei…

And give me Bishop who doesn’t write ✍️ but one who ordains priests… to provide the Sacraments to the remnant as the whole world is being genocided.
Prove it. I don't believe any of it unless you provide evidence. Otherwise its just baseless detraction of the Dimonds, +Vigano and Voris.

Maybe I'm just going blind here, but this paranoid idea that there is a Jєω or some other agent behind literally everyone is getting tiresome and ridiculous.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: bodeens on May 17, 2022, 07:54:43 PM
When the Dimonds get taken offline or jailed will they still be considered Jєω agents or what :jester:
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 17, 2022, 08:14:15 PM
When the Dimonds get taken offline or jailed will they still be considered Jєω agents or what :jester:
They'll have "completed their mission" or "went dark" or some other explanation. :laugh1:

Seriously though, I'm kind of getting tired of the "expose the NWO/Jєωs" false Gospel. I get it. Evil controls the world during these times, but God wins in the end. It seems to stem more from worldly attachment than anything. Who cares if someone like Alex Jones or a leader like Putin speaks the truth every once in a while when they still reject the true Gospel for a false one of the world?

We need to step back and look at how much time we're spending on these distractions. It's the same as the "truther" occult fixation I denounced (https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/truther-fixation-on-the-occult/msg818672/#msg818672) a short while back. If they were really "truthers" they would be following the Catholic faith and Our Lord Jesus Christ, not spending all of their time fighting for a worldly kingdom.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: StLouisIX on May 17, 2022, 09:30:07 PM
It would be a topic all on its own, but recently he's helped confirm your Duginistic opinions ("Holy Mother Russia" vs "Globohomo") and probably ensured people on the Alt-Right will be imprisoned or even shot as terrorists in the near future in the case of a Russian tactical nuclear strike. Rabbis have said that they will turn the people against the Patriots, and because so many people have been deceived by the narrative that Vigano helps push, it seems more and more likely that this will come to fruition.

Similarly to Bishop Williamson, I think he's fallen for the propaganda of "trad" Russia pushed by Western alt-media (like Paul Craig Roberts), and needs read up on Dugin and Eurasianism. 
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Miser Peccator on May 17, 2022, 10:51:52 PM
He doesn't have impeccable judgment perhaps?

To say that the pandemic farce would never have taken place under Trump (the Father of the Vaccine) is classic double speak.

Similar to Benedict, Vigano says much that itching trad ears want to hear but the devil is in the details.

I hope I'm wrong,

but we have to stay sober and alert.

Even the elect will be deceived.

We shouldn't place hope in an earthly savior at this point.

Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Donachie on May 18, 2022, 12:26:59 PM
I saw a copy of "Infiltration" and flipped through it. I forgot to check the index for Freemasons, тαℓмυd, Kabbalah, and Jєωs to see what the author had to say about that. Opus Dei is suspicious but I can't remember the details.

I seem to have in some "notes" that John XXIII was a Freemason and was not "elected" Pope until "Soviet" or "Soviet type" assets infiltrated inside the College of Cardinals reversed the legitimate election of Cardinal Siri as Pope, way back when, the "Cardinal Siri Thesis".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8h5swlUb00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzuybJKLKwg
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: 2Vermont on May 18, 2022, 03:32:26 PM
And Archbishop Vigano… writing like a little leprechaun into the night! 
Who writes his stuff?  The writing does not match the way he speaks. 

And writing is really all he’s doing.  And oh, he has such a Hollywood, clandestine cover.
Hiding from Francis’s mossad henchmen.

Yes, he needs to DO more than write starting with getting truly consecrated and helping ordain true priests.  Stop cowering in his hidden location. And last but not least, stop pussy footing around with Bergoglio: announce the Seat is Vacant.

Then I'll put some hope in him.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Ladislaus on May 18, 2022, 03:52:42 PM
Yes, he needs to DO more than write starting with getting truly consecrated and helping ordain true priests.  Stop cowering in his hidden location. And last but not least, stop pussy footing around with Bergoglio: announce the Seat is Vacant.

Then I'll put some hope in him.

Why would he get consecrated if he hasn't come to the conclusion yet that NO episcopal consecration is doubtful?  And even if he were consecrated, why would he start ordaining priests?  Every flavor of Traditional Catholicism has one or more bishops now that are adequate to serve the needs of the respective groups.  Which group(s) would he ordain for and why?  Should he start his own rival seminary?  In fact, if he did that, I'd be MORE inclined to suspect that he might be controlled opposition.

As for declaring the See Vacant, while I would love to see him do exactly that, why would he do it if he hasn't come to the conclusion that it's vacant?  In his one letter about Bennyvacantism, he seemed to take the same line as Archbishop Lefebvre that he would need to wait for the Church to officially do that.  [Of course, if he isn't the Church, and Lefebvre wasn't the Church, then who is the Church?  Are we waiting this current gaggle of Modernist Cardinals and Bishops to declare the See vacant?]

While you're disappointed that he isn't a full-blown sedevacantist yet, that has nothing to do with the current thread of allegations that he's some kind of controlled opposition.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Ladislaus on May 18, 2022, 04:06:50 PM
And Archbishop Vigano… writing like a little leprechaun into the night! 
Who writes his stuff?  The writing does not match the way he speaks. 

And writing is really all he’s doing.  And oh, he has such a Hollywood, clandestine cover.
Hiding from Francis’s mossad henchmen.

Give me a talking head, who will slam the Jєωs, who will expose Opus judei…

And give me Bishop who doesn’t write ✍️ but one who ordains priests… to provide the Sacraments to the remnant as the whole world is being genocided.

I agree with DL that your nonsense borders on slander at this point.

Lots of people write differently than they speak.  I absolutely do.  And that's especially true when he's not perfectly fluent in English.  He writes his articles typically in Italian and then others translate them.  So I would certainly expect there to be a stylistic difference.  That would be to compare something I might write in English with me standing up there trying to speak Italian.  There would be two completely different products.

As for going into hiding, I think he has every reason to suspect that the homo maffia will come after him after he exposed their crimes.  There are stories of people who blew the whistle on some Conciliar sodomites who ended up sleeping with the fishes.

As for writing is all he's doing, his writing is waking up a lot of conservative Novus Ordites, and even Traditional Catholics have received a morale boost due to someone of his stature agreeing that V2 is garbage and needs to be discarded.  See my previous response to 2V about consecrating or ordaining or whatever else he might "do".  You really don't think that ideas and theology matter?  They're everything.  His writing to help clear up minds about the nature of V2 and the crisis are invaluable and do more good than would ordaining more priests.

Your maniacal rant borders on the insane.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Ladislaus on May 18, 2022, 04:12:27 PM
Anyway, your downplaying Fr. Vigano and Putin is just your opinion. Look outside the Alt-Right and you might find it's not really about Russian nationalism.

No, it's called giving them the benefit of the doubt.  You clowns are making the accusations, so the burden of proof is on you.  In point of fact, you're just pulling these out of your collective asses because you don't like the man.  This has been going on since day one against +Vigano.

Why is it that the SVs are such assholes?  Makes me think that it's a huge reason so many people stay away from them.  You might do a better job of persuading people you're right if you didn't rip anyone to shreds who didn't measure up to your standards of perfection.  And perhaps +Vigano sees some of your vitriol and animosity toward him.  Why would he want to align himself with that bullshit?

And I'm going to be very blunt here.  While I understand the theology behind SVism and am sympathetic to it, it's just a simple fact that most SVs are a bunch of bitter assholes ... and a lot of people point that out as your bad fruit.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: dxcat40 on May 18, 2022, 04:16:05 PM
Ladislaus, you really do protest too much. How is it that everything you believe fits in so neatly with the Alt-Right/Duginist narrative? Anyone who opposes you is an idiot, a Jєωιѕн shell, a slanderer, and what else? Help us get a list ready so there are fewer surprises when you jump to attack.

Like Trump, I am sure we will get to the point where you are forced to recognize the reality and might have the opportunity to apologize. I hope we can reach that point and still be online here.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Ladislaus on May 18, 2022, 04:20:38 PM
Ladislaus, you really do protest too much. How is it that everything you believe fits in so neatly with the Alt-Right/Duginist narrative? Anyone who opposes you is an idiot, a Jєωιѕн shell, a slanderer, and what else? Help us get a list ready so there are fewer surprises when you jump to attack.

No, only idiots like you who pull stuff out of your asses and slander people like Archbishop Vigano without a shred of evidence.  You spin together some conspiracy narrative that you then hold up as the yardstick of reality.  You throw idiotic terms out there like "Alt-Right/Duginist" and pretend that merely by hurling the phrase you've uncovered the truth.

I have yet to see even a shred of proof for your allegations.  That's when it's slander and calumny.

It's perfectly fine to be cautious, but you cross the line into slander when you present these as fact when they're nothing but the product of your imagination.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Ladislaus on May 18, 2022, 04:26:05 PM
Prove it. I don't believe any of it unless you provide evidence. Otherwise its just baseless detraction of the Dimonds, +Vigano and Voris.

Maybe I'm just going blind here, but this paranoid idea that there is a Jєω or some other agent behind literally everyone is getting tiresome and ridiculous.

THIS^^^.  Prove your nonsense, or else it's nothing but slander and calumny.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: dxcat40 on May 18, 2022, 04:26:57 PM
No, it's called giving them the benefit of the doubt.  You clowns are making the accusations, so the burden of proof is on you.  In point of fact, you're just pulling these out of your collective asses because you don't like the man.  This has been going on since day one against +Vigano.
It hasn't been done with Fr. Vigano as far as I recall, but you have proven that with Putin we are going to need his 2022 Communist Party card, a detailed genealogy of his Jєωιѕн heritage, a list with photographs and perhaps video of his murder victims, etc. The measure of proof you require honestly doesn't exist, and I think you know that, which is why you are pushing this angle so hard and ignore everything that is offered. It would be nice if we had a simple list of heretics and saboteurs, wouldn't it?

Why is it that the SVs are such assholes?  Makes me think that it's a huge reason so many people stay away from them.  You might do a better job of persuading people you're right if you didn't rip anyone to shreds who didn't measure up to your standards of perfection.  And perhaps +Vigano sees some of your vitriol and animosity toward him.  Why would he want to align himself with that bullshit?
I never said I was a SV or anything at all, but I can't stop you from adding what you like to me. Perfection has nothing to do with it, and I doubt Fr. Vigano even has familiarity with a lot of what gets discussed in this corner of the Internet. The Novus Ordites would be a different story.

And I'm going to be very blunt here.  While I understand the theology behind SVism and am sympathetic to it, it's just a simple fact that most SVs are a bunch of bitter assholes ... and a lot of people point that out as your bad fruit.
See above. It's possible to disagree and both still be Catholics. I know you are deep into some unpleasant cօռspιʀαcιҽs, and it would be impossible for that to not color your thinking. I don't even think you must mirror my thoughts, but it would be better if you were at least neutral towards people like Putin, etc.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Pax Vobis on May 18, 2022, 04:29:53 PM

Quote
You throw idiotic terms out there like "Alt-Right/Duginist" 
Yeah what does this even mean?  If it was on Tic-Tok, I missed it. 
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: dxcat40 on May 18, 2022, 04:30:29 PM
No, only idiots like you who pull stuff out of your asses and slander people like Archbishop Vigano without a shred of evidence.  You spin together some conspiracy narrative that you then hold up as the yardstick of reality.  You throw idiotic terms out there like "Alt-Right/Duginist" and pretend that merely by hurling the phrase you've uncovered the truth.

I have yet to see even a shred of proof for your allegations.  That's when it's slander and calumny.

It's perfectly fine to be cautious, but you cross the line into slander when you present these as fact when they're nothing but the product of your imagination.
Ladislaus, are you serious? Are you certain you have read everything that has been presented to you? Your arguments prove that this must be impossible, and you claim everything that is being said is imaginary? What is wrong with you?

It's not for lack of trying by the opposition that you haven't seen a shred of evidence. Would it take that look to have read some of the previous posts or followed a few links? It could be that you don't want to believe that there is an Alt-Right or that Duginism is a thing, but that is your bias. What you would like to believe doesn't make what they are into something that I invented.

If you would like to pretend at authority it would be better if you could at least know what your opponents are saying rather than come up with the nonsense in the quote.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: St Giles on May 18, 2022, 04:30:43 PM
Why would he get consecrated if he hasn't come to the conclusion yet that NO episcopal consecration is doubtful?  And even if he were consecrated, why would he start ordaining priests?  Every flavor of Traditional Catholicism has one or more bishops now that are adequate to serve the needs of the respective groups.  Which group(s) would he ordain for and why?  Should he start his own rival seminary?  In fact, if he did that, I'd be MORE inclined to suspect that he might be controlled opposition.

As for declaring the See Vacant, while I would love to see him do exactly that, why would he do it if he hasn't come to the conclusion that it's vacant?  In his one letter about Bennyvacantism, he seemed to take the same line as Archbishop Lefebvre that he would need to wait for the Church to officially do that.  [Of course, if he isn't the Church, and Lefebvre wasn't the Church, then who is the Church?  Are we waiting this current gaggle of Modernist Cardinals and Bishops to declare the See vacant?]

While you're disappointed that he isn't a full-blown sedevacantist yet, that has nothing to do with the current thread of allegations that he's some kind of controlled opposition.
I too have been wondering who must condemn Bergoglio and declare the seat vacant, but then what is next? How is a new Pope elected or do we just wait for things to resolve in Rome?  This video satisfied my curiosity and doubt about the SSPX's position on calling the Pope a heretic and his removal from office.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/04oN_23onHs" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Ladislaus on May 18, 2022, 04:32:58 PM
It hasn't been done with Fr. Vigano as far as I recall, but you have proven that with Putin we are going to need his 2022 Communist Party card, a detailed genealogy of his Jєωιѕн heritage, a list with photographs and perhaps video of his murder victims, etc. The measure of proof you require honestly doesn't exist, and I think you know that, which is why you are pushing this angle so hard and ignore everything that is offered. It would be nice if we had a simple list of heretics and saboteurs, wouldn't it?

No, it's not been done with +Vigano at all, and yet that hasn't stopped the slanderers from making accusations.  Even for Putin, there's nothing there that that proves your assertions.  There's enough there to cause someone to question it, but nothing that comes close to evidence or proof of anything.  There's also counter-evidence, which has been presented, but you simply ignore because it doesn't fit with YOUR "narrative".  I'm pushing for truth and for looking objectively at both sides.  I just said that it's perfectly OK to be suspicious, but that's in a completely different league than accusing someone.

This might be an apt metaphor.  I see a guy show up at my chapel who's got effeminate mannerisms.  So I have my suspicions, keep an eye on him, wouldn't let my children be alone with him, etc.  But it would be quite another thing for me to go around telling people the guy's a sodomite and a pedophile.  That is where you guys cross the line into slander, by presenting your suspicions as if they were fact.  This is exactly what you're doing.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: dxcat40 on May 18, 2022, 06:41:33 PM
[...]
Ladislaus, I was deep into the Dissident Right circles years before I became Catholic. You have reacted so strongly that I would have identified you very differently in a non-Catholic setting. I want to think you are intelligent and sincere, but perhaps you are so obtuse due to years of conditioning.

In my reply what I am referring to is that these people always have consistent alibis and lie constantly. If you want them to confess, that simply isn't likely to happen. There has been research done into Fr. Vigano and if you spent five seconds on Google you might have found signs of it.

You keep repeating slander and I think you know better. StLouisIX has done a great job on the forums and has a lot more time than I do. I hope you are right about your desire to seek the truth and that we might find a better understanding of one another, if such is the case. A sign of that would be for you to honestly critique a post criticizing Putin the next time it comes up, rather than keeping it all to yourself and assuming we know your mind.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Miser Peccator on May 18, 2022, 06:42:30 PM
The fact is Vigano lied.

He stated that the pandemic farce would not have taken place under Trump.

The pandemic farce clearly did take place under Trump.

That's gaslighting.  Spellcasting.  Lying.



Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: 2Vermont on May 18, 2022, 07:19:34 PM
Why would he get consecrated if he hasn't come to the conclusion yet that NO episcopal consecration is doubtful?  And even if he were consecrated, why would he start ordaining priests?  Every flavor of Traditional Catholicism has one or more bishops now that are adequate to serve the needs of the respective groups.  Which group(s) would he ordain for and why?  Should he start his own rival seminary?  In fact, if he did that, I'd be MORE inclined to suspect that he might be controlled opposition.

As for declaring the See Vacant, while I would love to see him do exactly that, why would he do it if he hasn't come to the conclusion that it's vacant?  In his one letter about Bennyvacantism, he seemed to take the same line as Archbishop Lefebvre that he would need to wait for the Church to officially do that.  [Of course, if he isn't the Church, and Lefebvre wasn't the Church, then who is the Church?  Are we waiting this current gaggle of Modernist Cardinals and Bishops to declare the See vacant?]

While you're disappointed that he isn't a full-blown sedevacantist yet, that has nothing to do with the current thread of allegations that he's some kind of controlled opposition.
Yet?  I'll believe it when I see it. Quite honestly, I think he'll just continue to write, and write, and write....and then he'll die.  I think too many put too much stock in him.  But I get it...this is what happens when there is no pope.

By the way, I wasn't trying to push the controlled opposition view because I'm not convinced one way or the other.  He may or may not be....anything is possible. 
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: 2Vermont on May 18, 2022, 07:20:38 PM
No, it's called giving them the benefit of the doubt.  You clowns are making the accusations, so the burden of proof is on you.  In point of fact, you're just pulling these out of your collective asses because you don't like the man.  This has been going on since day one against +Vigano.

Why is it that the SVs are such assholes?  Makes me think that it's a huge reason so many people stay away from them.  You might do a better job of persuading people you're right if you didn't rip anyone to shreds who didn't measure up to your standards of perfection.  And perhaps +Vigano sees some of your vitriol and animosity toward him.  Why would he want to align himself with that bullshit?

And I'm going to be very blunt here.  While I understand the theology behind SVism and am sympathetic to it, it's just a simple fact that most SVs are a bunch of bitter assholes ... and a lot of people point that out as your bad fruit.
Whoa!  Incredulous is a sedevacantist? In fact, aren't most of the people you're arguing with on this NOT sedevacantist?
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: dxcat40 on May 18, 2022, 07:22:26 PM
It hasn't been done with Fr. Vigano as far as I recall, but you have proven that with Putin we are going to need his 2022 Communist Party card, a detailed genealogy of his Jєωιѕн heritage, a list with photographs and perhaps video of his murder victims, etc. ...
I just want to point out here that I was saying that no one has gone in-depth on Fr. Vigano on the forum, but I could be wrong. This is not to say that no one outside of the forum has done an examination of Fr. Vigano.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 18, 2022, 07:38:06 PM
No, it's called giving them the benefit of the doubt.  You clowns are making the accusations, so the burden of proof is on you.  In point of fact, you're just pulling these out of your collective asses because you don't like the man.  This has been going on since day one against +Vigano.

Why is it that the SVs are such assholes?  Makes me think that it's a huge reason so many people stay away from them.  You might do a better job of persuading people you're right if you didn't rip anyone to shreds who didn't measure up to your standards of perfection.  And perhaps +Vigano sees some of your vitriol and animosity toward him.  Why would he want to align himself with that bullshit?

And I'm going to be very blunt here.  While I understand the theology behind SVism and am sympathetic to it, it's just a simple fact that most SVs are a bunch of bitter assholes ... and a lot of people point that out as your bad fruit.
Lad, cool down. Take a break.

Yes, there are a lot of nasty SVists, but there are also many nasty sedeplenists and NO conservatives too. I cannot recall all the uncharitable exchanges I received from non-sede traddies on FE, Gab and Twitter over the years. It's a sign of the times and a result of this Crisis. It is not just one group, it's among all groups and tends to be exaggerated through the filter of the internet. 

Our Lord prophesied this in the Gospel:
"And because iniquity hath abounded, the charity of many shall grow cold."
[Matthew 24:12]
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Incredulous on May 18, 2022, 07:41:09 PM
I agree with DL that your nonsense borders on slander at this point.

Lots of people write differently than they speak.  I absolutely do.  And that's especially true when he's not perfectly fluent in English.  He writes his articles typically in Italian and then others translate them.  So I would certainly expect there to be a stylistic difference.  That would be to compare something I might write in English with me standing up there trying to speak Italian.  There would be two completely different products.

As for going into hiding, I think he has every reason to suspect that the homo maffia will come after him after he exposed their crimes.  There are stories of people who blew the whistle on some Conciliar sodomites who ended up sleeping with the fishes.

As for writing is all he's doing, his writing is waking up a lot of conservative Novus Ordites, and even Traditional Catholics have received a morale boost due to someone of his stature agreeing that V2 is garbage and needs to be discarded.  See my previous response to 2V about consecrating or ordaining or whatever else he might "do".  You really don't think that ideas and theology matter?  They're everything.  His writing to help clear up minds about the nature of V2 and the crisis are invaluable and do more good than would ordaining more priests.

Your maniacal rant borders on the insane.

Lads,

Call me what you want.

The Dimonds are in a hack league all by themselves.

But Voris, Marshall and Vigano all have links to Opus judei.  Have you not studied it ?  Do you not see the signs?

Voris promoted Opus dei on his show, Marshall praised Escriva's theology on his old website and Vigano used to celebrate the Novus ordo missae at Opus dei headquarters.   Their "talking head" insider news completely fits the Opus judei's propaganda MO.

Let me ask you, and I'm not trying to be a smart aleck.  Did you believe in the Trump/Q news a couple of years ago?
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: dxcat40 on May 18, 2022, 08:24:17 PM
... But Voris, Marshall and Vigano all have links to Opus judei.  Have you not studied it ?  Do you not see the signs? ...

I still think it's fun that Marshall named a son after Escriva. I took a few seconds to Google it and look what came up:

Quote
Dr. Taylor Marshall (https://disqus.com/by/taylorreedmarshall/) Moderator • 7 years ago (https://taylormarshall.com/2015/06/our-8th-baby-is-a-baby-girl.html#comment-2063779866)

For reference, our other children's names are:
Gabriel William
Mary Claire
Rose Genevieve
Jude Ambrose Josemaria
Becket John
Blaise Christopher
Elizabeth Joy Anne Mary


Sources:

1.) https://taylormarshall.com/2015/06/our-8th-baby-is-a-baby-girl.html

2.) http://disq.us/p/y4pyqi
Yeah, he didn't name them ALL Josemaria or Escriva so it's probably just a coincidence. Like all of the other coincidental connections he has to Opus Dei :popcorn:
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Pax Vobis on May 19, 2022, 08:27:20 AM
Voris and Marshall are easily connected with Opus Dei.  Where’s the proof of +Vigano’s connection?  
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Yeti on May 19, 2022, 10:48:44 AM
Yet?  I'll believe it when I see it. Quite honestly, I think he'll just continue to write, and write, and write....and then he'll die.


I think the same. That's all he's done for the last 4-5 years, and there's no indication he will every do anything different, and he is now in his 80s and doesn't have a huge amount of time left for this world.

I don't understand why people on here are so impressed by him. He was alive before Vatican 2 and saw what the Church really looks like, and lived through all the changes, and never objected to anything that we know of. Then, a few years ago he makes a big issue out of the carnal sins of a few Novus Ordo prelates and the conservative wing of the Novus Ordo (i.e., Michael Matt, indult groups in general) starts fawning all over him. Why? I have no idea. Personal immortality of a few clergy is not a problem of the Church.

Then, a year or two later, he finally(!) realizes there are doctrinal and liturgical problems in the Church, something that pious old ladies were aware of 50 years ago. But fair enough, so he starts condemning Vatican 2 and the new "Mass". Better late than never. He even attacks Bergoglio as a heretic, which really wows a lot of people.

Unfortunately, he maintains that Bergoglio can only be deposed as pope by "the Church", a not-uncommon opinion, but never defines who "the Church" is. But let's suppose he is referring to the college of cardinals. Okay, but the college of cardinals refuses to depose Bergoglio. Well, doesn't that make them complicit? That is what both common sense and theology teach, and after all, if a pope can be a heretic and need deposition, can't the same be true of the college of cardinals? All of this is what Vigano could have discerned with 30 seconds of thoughtful reflection, even without recourse to any theological treatises (which he doesn't appear to read, anyway, or at least he never cites any theologians).

So if the college of cardinals espouses heresy and/or protects a heretical antipope, they must be judged and deposed by "the Church" too, right? And who is that now? Well, who is below the cardinals except the bishops? But wait, isn't Vigano a bishop, in fact an ARCHbishop? So doesn't that mean he has the duty, as a member of "the Church", to depose the pope and cardinals?

Well, he made it absolutely clear that he will never fulfill this obligation when he said that he would not declare Bergoglio an antipope because "that's just what Bergoglio wants", and he was absolutely terrified that Bergoglio would excommunicate him. Seriously??! What traditional Catholic wouldn't want to be excommunicated by Bergoglio -- in fact, wear such an excommunication as a badge of honor?

Vigano's failure to do his duty is not due to an ignorance of what he is supposed to do -- which would be bad enough in itself -- but due to a lack of courage and trust in God. He is one of the only people on earth who is uniquely positioned to do the one thing that every trad of whatever stripe agrees would solve the crisis in the Church, which is to have the Church formally condemn Bergoglio and the modernist cardinals and bishops and pass sentence of excommunication on them, removing them from office in the Church. If Vigano were to do this, everyone from Indultarians to Michael Matt to the recognize-and-resist people to sedevacantists and everone in-between would accept it as legitimate and accept the new pope following on such a judgment as a true pope of the Church, and the crisis in the Church would be over.

But instead, Vigano chooses to be a hireling and a coward, and unless he does his duty he will be held guilty of the loss of millions of souls who would otherwise have been saved by such a restoration of the Church, and he will be buried as deep in hell as Cardinal Siri who was similarly a hireling and a coward, and who refused to reveal what happened in the 1958 conclave, thus allowing the loss of millions of souls and an unprecedented apostasy.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Pax Vobis on May 19, 2022, 11:06:59 AM
Yeti, you're condemning +Vigano to hell is just crazy.  You're perpetuating the label of SV's being bitter, angry nutjobs.

Ok, so +Vigano said (according to you...i've not heard this) that he wouldn't depose +Francis.  Ok, well, WHY did he say this?  I'm sure that there's more to the story and +Vigano might actually have a legal reason for his statement.  Until you find this out, and/or intereview +Vigano and get more information, it's rash, uncharitable and stupid to condemn someone to hell.

It's a complex topic, because it involves canon law and also doctrine.  It's also an unprecedented crisis in the Church, yet you're channeling the Diamonds and condemning people to hell because "you have it all figured out".  This is crazy talk.  You give SVs a bad name.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 19, 2022, 12:00:34 PM
It's a complex topic, because it involves canon law and also doctrine.  It's also an unprecedented crisis in the Church, yet you're channeling the Diamonds and condemning people to hell because "you have it all figured out".  This is crazy talk.  You give SVs a bad name.
The Dimonds don't even go that far with +Vigano. Condemning him as some agent, like Voris or Marshall, without solid proof is a guess at their interior motivations, which is sinful.

Marshall naming his kid Josemaria doesn't strike me as particularly compelling since he's come a long way from being a NO apologist to one who has become more friendly to even SVists.

It's the conspiracy gospel versus the true Gospel once again, where rather than try to give people the benefit of the doubt, we condemn them outright because it fits our theory.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Incredulous on May 19, 2022, 12:23:42 PM
Voris and Marshall are easily connected with Opus Dei.  Where’s the proof of +Vigano’s connection? 
Pax,

We Americans don't easily see... that Opus Dei is a judaic secret society that essentially runs the consiliar Church.

Somewhere, archived on this forum, I posted older photos and dates of Vigano's meetings at Opus Dei headquarters.

Also, Here's an excerpt from Randel Engels' article on the Vigano connection to Opus Dei, demonstrating the extent of their hidden media power.

We can see that the funding of Catholic talking heads, like Voris and Marshall is child's play to them. 
In the Vigano scandal of 2018, Randy shows how subtle and sophisticated are their media manipulations.

I don't place Randy as the sole credible source for outing Vigano, but as I previously complained, if Vigano was real.... he'd be outing Opus judei.

Opus Dei Domination of the Catholic Media

It is also crucial that readers understand the pervasiveness of Opus Dei’s voice and point-of-view  in the Catholic media—and that these influences are rarely, if ever, identified as coming from Opus Dei. During the last three decades, using its numeraries or wealthy supernumeraries or philanthropic cooperators, the Prelature has established and/or taken over many Catholic media outlets including EWTN, the National Catholic Register, and LifeSiteNews. It was these three media sources that originally brought the Viganò story to the attention of Catholics the world over.

Other Opus Dei media outlets that promoted Viganò’s allegations of corruption at the Vatican and the call for Pope Francis’ resignation include Our Sunday Visitor, Catholic Canada, Catholic News Agency (CNA), and ACI Presna (Spanish) to name a few.

With this in mind, the significance of this installment concerning the public figures and the media-outlets involved in the Vigano affair will be clearer.  I will begin with the pivotal roles played by two Italian Vaticanists, Aldo Maria Valli and Marco Tosatti in the proposed writing, editing, translation and publication of the Vigano testimony.

Full Article by Randy Engel
Viganos connection to Opus Dei (http://www.mgr.org/AldoMariaValli.html)



Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: dxcat40 on May 19, 2022, 12:41:02 PM
The Dimonds don't even go that far with +Vigano. Condemning him as some agent, like Voris or Marshall, without solid proof is a guess at their interior motivations, which is sinful.

Marshall naming his kid Josemaria doesn't strike me as particularly compelling since he's come a long way from being a NO apologist to one who has become more friendly to even SVists.

It's the conspiracy gospel versus the true Gospel once again, where rather than try to give people the benefit of the doubt, we condemn them outright because it fits our theory.
The Josemaria naming is a good starting point. Part of the issue we're facing here is that information is posted constantly, but gets ignored and sidelined. There is incredible information in posts on this very forum, and which have existed for years, but evidently without much fruit for the average poster. Somehow it's determined that there must not be any evidence, so it just comes from the opposition's bitter, angry nutjob sede imagination (look at how I was accused earlier, a complete non sequitur). People can prefer not to believe it, but they should stop pretending as if they can authoritatively sentence people they don't like and disagree with on current events.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Pax Vobis on May 19, 2022, 12:41:24 PM
Quote
We Americans don't easily see... that Opus Dei is a judaic secret society that essentially runs the consiliar Church.
I don't deny this.


Quote
Somewhere, archived on this forum, I posted older photos and dates of Vigano's meetings at Opus Dei headquarters.
I've never heard this, so thanks for the info.


Quote
if Vigano was real.... he'd be outing Opus judei.
Maybe, maybe not.  Here's where I see the issues with this line of thinking.  (If person A doesn't do "x", then he's (not) "y".)  I'm not saying you totally believe this but it comes across this way and it's also a self-fulfilling prophecy.


Here's a list of things (just in the last month) that i've heard people complain that +Vigano isn't doing:
1.  Helping ordain priests  (there's no evidence he isn't helping, but people complain anyway).
2.  Supporting SV and defending it.  (he's questioned Francis' legitimacy, but I guess this isn't good enough).
3.  Working to depose +Francis  (we don't know he isn't)
4.  Investigating and outing Opus Dei  (I don't see this as the top priority; pretty low level problems, in my opinion)
5.  Outing the Jooish conspiracy  (Using the word "Jєω" isn't going to make a big difference, if you're still exposing the main problems, which he is)
6.  Supporting Tradition  (nevermind that he's supported +Williamson and also indirectly corrected the new-sspx (which is why they don't like him).)

Nevermind that what he HAS done is the following:
1.  Condemned V2 as heretical and unorthodox
2.  Condemned all V2 popes
3.  Indirectly condemned the new mass, calling for everyone to return to Traditional rites
4.  Called out +Francis' heresies and errors, supporting the "Dubia letter"
5.  Called out the "Great Reset", satanism in politics, the covid lie, the war against the natural law, the family and Faith.
6.  Called out new-rome's leaders as being part of the "Deep State" and also that many "conservative" Cardinals/bishops are lukewarm.
7.  Supported +Williamson, +ABL and all Traditionally-minded catholics.
8.  Exposed the corruption, pedophilia and infiltration in the Church.

Bottomline:  He's just one man.  And he's old.  He can only do so much.  He writes letters every few months and gives interviews so that people have some sense of leadership in the Church.  But what is he doing with the rest of his time?  We don't know.  So how can we complain/criticize him for things we don't know?  Unless some of you have access to his daily itinerary and all his comings/goings, your complaints are just immature and impatient.

Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Incredulous on May 19, 2022, 01:09:32 PM

Here's one by Father Hesse (7min) stating:  "Opus Dei is the heart and the brains of the consiliar Church".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7etkPdY2AuU&list=PLthLFidLymOvnI1crLenb5ygUA8xKl-qr (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7etkPdY2AuU&list=PLthLFidLymOvnI1crLenb5ygUA8xKl-qr)

https://youtu.be/7etkPdY2AuU?list=PLthLFidLymOvnI1crLenb5ygUA8xKl-qr (https://youtu.be/7etkPdY2AuU?list=PLthLFidLymOvnI1crLenb5ygUA8xKl-qr)
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Donachie on May 19, 2022, 01:18:51 PM
Opus Dei reminds me of Amway. That's all I thought about it.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Donachie on May 19, 2022, 01:32:57 PM
Opus Dei and "the beaches of the world" ... etc. Or no that was Amway and the beaches of the world ...
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Incredulous on May 19, 2022, 01:38:34 PM
Here's a helpful analogy from Jєωιѕн folklore on the Golem, a conjured monster used to destroy the Gentiles.

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-cKzH4e4puR4%2FUcdSbfegxPI%2FAAAAAAAAAC8%2FylfJQ6PMkf4%2Fs1600%2Fgolem%2Bof%2Bprague.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)

Today, Opus Dei represents a judaic infiltration of the visible Catholic Church and seeks to destroy it.


(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Freligionnews.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F12%2Fpopepm-990x660.jpeg&f=1&nofb=1)

But only this time... Francis is their Golem.


Source: Rany Engel


Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Incredulous on May 19, 2022, 01:43:02 PM
I don't deny this.

I've never heard this, so thanks for the info.

Maybe, maybe not.  Here's where I see the issues with this line of thinking.  (If person A doesn't do "x", then he's (not) "y".)  I'm not saying you totally believe this but it comes across this way and it's also a self-fulfilling prophecy.


Here's a list of things (just in the last month) that i've heard people complain that +Vigano isn't doing:
1.  Helping ordain priests  (there's no evidence he isn't helping, but people complain anyway).
2.  Supporting SV and defending it.  (he's questioned Francis' legitimacy, but I guess this isn't good enough).
3.  Working to depose +Francis  (we don't know he isn't)
4.  Investigating and outing Opus Dei  (I don't see this as the top priority; pretty low level problems, in my opinion)
5.  Outing the Jooish conspiracy  (Using the word "Jєω" isn't going to make a big difference, if you're still exposing the main problems, which he is)
6.  Supporting Tradition  (nevermind that he's supported +Williamson and also indirectly corrected the new-sspx (which is why they don't like him).)

Nevermind that what he HAS done is the following:
1.  Condemned V2 as heretical and unorthodox
2.  Condemned all V2 popes
3.  Indirectly condemned the new mass, calling for everyone to return to Traditional rites
4.  Called out +Francis' heresies and errors, supporting the "Dubia letter"
5.  Called out the "Great Reset", satanism in politics, the covid lie, the war against the natural law, the family and Faith.
6.  Called out new-rome's leaders as being part of the "Deep State" and also that many "conservative" Cardinals/bishops are lukewarm.
7.  Supported +Williamson, +ABL and all Traditionally-minded catholics.
8.  Exposed the corruption, pedophilia and infiltration in the Church.

Bottomline:  He's just one man.  And he's old.  He can only do so much.  He writes letters every few months and gives interviews so that people have some sense of leadership in the Church.  But what is he doing with the rest of his time?  We don't know.  So how can we complain/criticize him for things we don't know?  Unless some of you have access to his daily itinerary and all his comings/goings, your complaints are just immature and impatient.


Okay... I'm guilty of rash judgement and was wrong on Trump too :facepalm:

He's just one crypto-Jєω, but somehow... he's gonna come back and save America.

Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Pax Vobis on May 19, 2022, 01:46:35 PM
Quote
Okay... I'm guilty of rash judgement
Some on this site are; not necessarily you.  The point is, until +Vigano is proven to be part of Opus Dei, then shouldn't he be given the benefit of the doubt on "not doing x thing" to save the Church?
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: dxcat40 on May 19, 2022, 02:41:17 PM
Some on this site are; not necessarily you.  The point is, until +Vigano is proven to be part of Opus Dei, then shouldn't he be given the benefit of the doubt on "not doing x thing" to save the Church?
How do we know that Francis isn't being blackmailed and forced to speak heresy in order to save his reputation, family, insert reason here? Shouldn't he be given the benefit of the doubt rather than being condemned by so many outside of authority as a heretic? Maybe they replaced the real Francis with a double and the authentic Francis is just a swell guy.

There are a lot of what-ifs, but it's not an issue of there being rash judgments made based on our sede imaginations. That you aren't convinced or haven't looked into it is a different issue.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Pax Vobis on May 19, 2022, 03:04:00 PM

Quote
There are a lot of what-ifs, but it's not an issue of there being rash judgments made based on our sede imaginations.
I didn't use "rash judgement" in my original post.  I am more speaking of illegitimate criticisms, which boils down to false expectations.  Again, it's illogical to argue that "I can't trust +Vigano because he isn't doing "x" and/or he's not calling out "y".  Maybe your expectations are out of bounds with reality?  Some are.  That's my point.




Quote
That you aren't convinced or haven't looked into it is a different issue.
I'm open to reading about +Vigano's opus dei connections.  Such criticisms aren't mainstream, even for this site.  First I've heard of it on here.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: Yeti on May 19, 2022, 03:44:19 PM
Nevermind that what he HAS done is the following:
1.  Condemned V2 as heretical and unorthodox
2.  Condemned all V2 popes
3.  Indirectly condemned the new mass, calling for everyone to return to Traditional rites
4.  Called out +Francis' heresies and errors, supporting the "Dubia letter"
5.  Called out the "Great Reset", satanism in politics, the covid lie, the war against the natural law, the family and Faith.
6.  Called out new-rome's leaders as being part of the "Deep State" and also that many "conservative" Cardinals/bishops are lukewarm.
7.  Supported +Williamson, +ABL and all Traditionally-minded catholics.
8.  Exposed the corruption, pedophilia and infiltration in the Church.


And what is so valuable about any of this? Most people on this forum do most of the things in that list many times every single day. :sleep:
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: DigitalLogos on May 19, 2022, 03:44:51 PM
How do we know that Francis isn't being blackmailed and forced to speak heresy in order to save his reputation, family, insert reason here? Shouldn't he be given the benefit of the doubt rather than being condemned by so many outside of authority as a heretic? Maybe they replaced the real Francis with a double and the authentic Francis is just a swell guy.
There's a difference between observing repeated, external acts of apostasy and heresy, therefore he has proven himself to be an enemy of Christ. Whereas the other involves speculating that so-and-so must be an agent of Opus Dei or whatever because of some subjective observation about past connections, therefore he's an agent or whatever.

+Vigano has done nothing but push further and further toward Catholic orthodoxy than even the neo-SSPX these days, as Pax pointed out:
Nevermind that what he HAS done is the following:
1.  Condemned V2 as heretical and unorthodox
2.  Condemned all V2 popes
3.  Indirectly condemned the new mass, calling for everyone to return to Traditional rites
4.  Called out +Francis' heresies and errors, supporting the "Dubia letter"
5.  Called out the "Great Reset", satanism in politics, the covid lie, the war against the natural law, the family and Faith.
6.  Called out new-rome's leaders as being part of the "Deep State" and also that many "conservative" Cardinals/bishops are lukewarm.
7.  Supported +Williamson, +ABL and all Traditionally-minded catholics.
8.  Exposed the corruption, pedophilia and infiltration in the Church.

What's happening here is that +Vigano is not living up to the expectations we ourselves have formed (i.e. subjectively) about certain pet cօռspιʀαcιҽs, therefore, he must be working for the "other side". Until it is proven that he is still working with/for Opus Dei, condemning him as if he is an enemy is slander.

We've been in this Crisis so long that everyone has their own opinion on who is aligned with what nefarious group that it's impossible to have any trust in anyone legitimately converting, as +Vigano has shown he is in the process of doing.
Title: Re: Dimond Brothers on Taylor Marshall
Post by: dxcat40 on May 19, 2022, 03:56:09 PM
I didn't use "rash judgement" in my original post.  I am more speaking of illegitimate criticisms, which boils down to false expectations.  Again, it's illogical to argue that "I can't trust +Vigano because he isn't doing "x" and/or he's not calling out "y".  Maybe your expectations are out of bounds with reality?  Some are.  That's my point.
Please excuse me, then. I must not be keeping up well IRT to the first sentence. A priori I don't have any expectations of Fr. Vigano because he is a highly public and well-funded figure, but that's before examining the evidence. We live in an era of universal deceit and massive propaganda. It's a reasonable assumption that anyone with media coverage is compromised to some degree and requires examination before trust.

I'm open to reading about +Vigano's opus dei connections.  Such criticisms aren't mainstream, even for this site.  First I've heard of it on here.
I will see what I can do if someone doesn't beat me to it. I have a long-term project of collating sources, but I am one man and it takes a lot of time. If I get that far it will be in a topic all its own.