Author Topic: Did this priest commit an act of schism?  (Read 1109 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bataar

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Reputation: +14/-21
  • Gender: Male
Did this priest commit an act of schism?
« on: May 04, 2021, 05:55:51 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • A family member of mine recently went to confession at a local FSSP church. She confessed to feeling guilty of being so angry about how Francis and the bishops are ruining the church and asked for advice on how to deal with it. The priest flat out told her that he just ignores everything that comes out of Francis' mouth.

    This is an FSSP priest not a sedevacantist priest who claims to recognize that Francis is the true pope. For him to say he ignores everything the man he believes is the true pope says, isn't that an act of schism?

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6600
    • Reputation: +3686/-1089
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Did this priest commit an act of schism?
    « Reply #1 on: May 04, 2021, 06:01:47 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!2
  • Your family member was ABSOLUTELY WRONG for spreading her Confessor's advice.  Confession is a SACRAMENT; it's not a facebook post which should be spread to anyone and everyone.


    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8264
    • Reputation: +6095/-1837
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Did this priest commit an act of schism?
    « Reply #2 on: May 04, 2021, 06:03:48 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • A family member of mine recently went to confession at a local FSSP church. She confessed to feeling guilty of being so angry about how Francis and the bishops are ruining the church and asked for advice on how to deal with it. The priest flat out told her that he just ignores everything that comes out of Francis' mouth.

    This is an FSSP priest not a sedevacantist priest who claims to recognize that Francis is the true pope. For him to say he ignores everything the man he believes is the true pope says, isn't that an act of schism?

    I think you need to look up the definition of schism.

    I sense from your confusion that you must be a sede (ie., if he is pope, we must obey).
    Not even indulters believe that.

    Obviously, the more Francis teaches error, the more one will have to resist him.
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline forlorn

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2243
    • Reputation: +836/-1084
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Did this priest commit an act of schism?
    « Reply #3 on: May 04, 2021, 07:38:16 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • While I do think the extent some people take it to, i.e "he's the pope but treat him like he isn't in every conceivable way", is borderline schismatic, just telling someone to ignore the nonsense he comes out with isn't at all.

    Saying Francis talks a lot of rot is just saying he's a bad pope, not saying that he's not the pope.

    Offline angelusmaria

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 49
    • Reputation: +35/-3
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Did this priest commit an act of schism?
    « Reply #4 on: May 04, 2021, 09:26:00 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • While I do think the extent some people take it to, i.e "he's the pope but treat him like he isn't in every conceivable way", is borderline schismatic, just telling someone to ignore the nonsense he comes out with isn't at all.

    Saying Francis talks a lot of rot is just saying he's a bad pope, not saying that he's not the pope.
    Then what's the point of a pope?


    Offline SimpleMan

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1405
    • Reputation: +425/-104
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Did this priest commit an act of schism?
    « Reply #5 on: May 04, 2021, 09:33:51 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • While I do think the extent some people take it to, i.e "he's the pope but treat him like he isn't in every conceivable way", is borderline schismatic, just telling someone to ignore the nonsense he comes out with isn't at all.

    Saying Francis talks a lot of rot is just saying he's a bad pope, not saying that he's not the pope.
    Well, then, I guess I must be borderline schismatic, because that's what I do. 

    I will accept any plenary indulgences he promulgates (assuming I could be worthy of a plenary indulgence in the first place), in that I do acknowledge him as Pope, I acknowledge that he has the authority to do such things, and I would not hesitate to call him "our sweet Christ on earth".  But as a practical matter, I give him very little if any thought whatsoever.

    Offline Nadir

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7748
    • Reputation: +4131/-303
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Did this priest commit an act of schism?
    « Reply #6 on: May 04, 2021, 09:34:21 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • A family member of mine recently went to confession at a local FSSP church. She confessed to feeling guilty of being so angry about how Francis and the bishops are ruining the church and asked for advice on how to deal with it. The priest flat out told her that he just ignores everything that comes out of Francis' mouth.

    This is an FSSP priest not a sedevacantist priest who claims to recognize that Francis is the true pope. For him to say he ignores everything the man he believes is the true pope says, isn't that an act of schism?
    She asked for advice on how to deal with it (Francis and the bishops ruining the Church) and he told her how he deals with it. What is the problem?

    Offline forlorn

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2243
    • Reputation: +836/-1084
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Did this priest commit an act of schism?
    « Reply #7 on: May 06, 2021, 05:45:21 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Well, then, I guess I must be borderline schismatic, because that's what I do.  

    I will accept any plenary indulgences he promulgates (assuming I could be worthy of a plenary indulgence in the first place), in that I do acknowledge him as Pope, I acknowledge that he has the authority to do such things, and I would not hesitate to call him "our sweet Christ on earth".  But as a practical matter, I give him very little if any thought whatsoever.
    What I meant are people who dismiss the pope's authority entirely, like dismissing his changes to canon law as invalid or whatever else. Not people who just don't pay attention to what he says or gets up to.


    Offline forlorn

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2243
    • Reputation: +836/-1084
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Did this priest commit an act of schism?
    « Reply #8 on: May 06, 2021, 05:45:42 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Then what's the point of a pope?
    To govern the Church.

    Online Ladislaus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 24119
    • Reputation: +13459/-3626
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Did this priest commit an act of schism?
    « Reply #9 on: May 06, 2021, 07:39:00 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Even for sedevacantists, there should be a difference between ignoring most of the babbling done by Bergoglio (his interviews, weekly speeches, etc.) and anything Magisterial.  Nobody's required to hang on his every word and treat it like divine revelation.

    Really the broader question is whether formal submission and full communion are required.

    There is in fact a very dangerous attitude from R&R of ignoring their Magisterium, but that's a separate consideration, and it's hard to know from this third-hand report what the priest meant.  As a member of the FSSP, he remains in canonical submission to Bergoglio.

    Online Ladislaus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 24119
    • Reputation: +13459/-3626
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Did this priest commit an act of schism?
    « Reply #10 on: May 06, 2021, 07:58:28 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thus far, the only Magisterial acts that have emanated from Bergoglio are the Recyclical (Laudato si') [there's also Lumen fidei, but that's though of as having mostly been written by Benedict XVI] ... and then the notorious Amoris Laetita (the joy of fornication), a papal "exhortation", whatever that means, but it looks official.

    Everything else are just his ramblings as a private theologian.

    Now, traditionally, even those two, the Encyclical and the Exhortation, are supposed to received with a spirit of reverence and religious assent by Catholics.  When in the history of the Church have Catholics routinely mocked papal Magisterium like we do with these two documents?

    That's kindof the bigger picture problem here.  Let's say this Crisis passes.  Will Catholics ever look at Encyclicals again the same way?  Are these merely the pope opining about something as a private theologian or are these actually teachings of the Magisterium?  R&R seriously blurs the two so that there's precious little difference.  In fact, will Catholics ever look the pope the same way.  We have statements from both Pope St. Pius V and Pope St. Pius X to the effect that the Pope IS Christ (on earth) and he is to be treated as such.  I get the impression that those were statements of principle and not dependent on the worthiness of the See's present occupant.

    Then how do we go back to the pre-Vatican II Encyclicals and credibly hold them up as authoritative?  If Vatican II, an Ecumenical Council, was wrong about Religious Liberty, then what if Vatican II was actually right while Pius IX was wrong?

    This is just NOT the same attitude that Catholics have traditionally had toward papal teaching.


    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8264
    • Reputation: +6095/-1837
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Did this priest commit an act of schism?
    « Reply #11 on: May 06, 2021, 08:04:08 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • Even for sedevacantists, there should be a difference between ignoring most of the babbling done by Bergoglio (his interviews, weekly speeches, etc.) and anything Magisterial.  Nobody's required to hang on his every word and treat it like divine revelation.

    Really the broader question is whether formal submission and full communion are required.

    There is in fact a very dangerous attitude from R&R of ignoring their Magisterium, but that's a separate consideration, and it's hard to know from this third-hand report what the priest meant.  As a member of the FSSP, he remains in canonical submission to Bergoglio.
    ...except that 96% of anything Bergoglio teaches is not magisterial (for want of temporal niversality), and therefore contains the binding force of a Sunday sermon (ie., none).
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Online Ladislaus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 24119
    • Reputation: +13459/-3626
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Did this priest commit an act of schism?
    « Reply #12 on: May 06, 2021, 08:07:49 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • ...except that 96% of anything Bergoglio teaches is not magisterial (for want of temporal niversality), and therefore contains the binding force of a Sunday sermon (ie., none).

    I think I just said that ... in the post right after the one you quoted.  Only things I can think of that are Magisterial are Laudato si' and Amoris Laetitia, so it might be more than 96%.  His rambling aboard Pope Force I are exactly that, the ramblings of a private "theologian" (so to speak).  I'll be honest that I haven't read either one of these, just a few excerpts from Amoris Laetitia ... due to lack of interest.

    Online Ladislaus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 24119
    • Reputation: +13459/-3626
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Did this priest commit an act of schism?
    « Reply #13 on: May 06, 2021, 08:10:57 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Given the lack of any authoritative teaching from Bergoglio, the question still revolves around whether one in general submits to the Vatican II system and the Conciliar Church.  Given that this FSSP priest is in such submission, I don't see anything necessarily schismatic about him.

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8264
    • Reputation: +6095/-1837
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Did this priest commit an act of schism?
    « Reply #14 on: May 06, 2021, 08:12:24 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I think I just said that.  Only things I can think of that are Magisterial are Laudato si' and Amoris Laetitia, so it might be more than 96%.  His rambling aboard Pope Force I are exactly that, the ramblings of a private "theologian" (so to speak).  I'll be honest that I haven't read either one of these, just a few excerpts from Amoris Laetitia ... due to lack of interest.
    Those  also would not/could not be magisterial for the same reason.
    Despite using the form of an encyclical, they have no binding force, and lacks temporal universality.
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-


     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16