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Author Topic: Did St. Polycarp Resist Pope St. Anicetus?  (Read 1721 times)

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Offline Ambrose

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Did St. Polycarp Resist Pope St. Anicetus?
« on: January 09, 2014, 05:20:07 AM »
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  • Atila Sinke Guimarãess, in his tract, Resistance - Historical Precedents wrote:  

    Quote
    St. Polycarp resisted Pope St. Anicetus

    In the second century, the rites of the Church still were not fixed. There was a natural tendency to maintain the Judaic rites. The Roman Empire, dominant in almost the whole known world, exercised a strong influence. There was also the Greek influence present principally in Egypt and Syria. With this, a question understandably presented itself to the Church. Which of these influences should the liturgical rite follow?

    Pope St. Anicetus (155-168) wanted to regularize the rites of the Church, initiating what would come to be the Roman Rite. St. Polycarp of Smyrna, a disciple of St. John the Evangelist, wanted to keep the same rites that he had learned from St. John and that had been followed by the other Apostles.

    St. Polycarp traveled from the East to Rome and spoke firmly to St. Anicetus, opposing that planned uniformization. St. Polycarp was intransigent. St. Anicetus could not manage to persuade him of his reform. The two rites were maintained, because of the resistance of the great Bishop of Smyrna.

    St. Polycarp, along with St. Clement of Rome, the Pope and St. Ignatius of Antioch are each honored with the singular title of Apostolic Father, that is, among the great apologists of the Church these great Saints were instructed by one or another of the Apostles.


    SOURCE

    The preceding tract contain errors of fact and a faulty conclusion.  

    1.  Mr. Guimarãess asserts that the point of controversy between St. Polycarp and Pope St. Anicetus was based on the standardization of the Roman Rite.  

    2.  This was not the issue.  The issue was that St. Polycarp held the view great Easter must be dated on the 14th day of the month of Nisan.  According to this position, Easter could fall on any day of the week, and would not be restricted to Sunday.

    3.  Pope St. Anicetus was universalizing the day of Easter as the Sunday following the 14th Day of Nisan.  St. Polycarp met with St. Anicetus to discuss the matter.  Both strongly held to their position, and the Pope allowed St. Polycarp to maintain his position. Both remained in peace and communion with each other.  Pope St. Anicetus took a moderate approach with St. Polycarp.

    4.  Several years later, after both St. Anicetus and St. Polycarp had passed away, Pope St. Victor took a much stronger position against those who were then known as the Quartodecimans, by threatening them with excommunication.

    5.  The idea eventually died out, and Easter was universally recognized as the Sunday following the 14th day of a Nisan.

    6.  At no point did St. Polycarp resist Pope Anicetus.  As a good Catholic bishop he brought the matter to the Pope. Both held strongly to their positions during their meeting, and in the end the Pope allowed St. Polycarp to maintain his date of Easter, and the two remained in peace and communion with each other.

    7.  We can never know what may have happened if St Anicetus did not allow St. Polycarp to remain in peace and maintain the Easter date based on the 14th day of Nisan.  What we do know is that both saints met, and the matter was resolved peacefully, and St. Polycarp did not resist St. Anicetus, as a moderate policy was followed by the Pope which tolerated the practice of the Quartodecimans.


    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic


    Offline Ambrose

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    Did St. Polycarp Resist Pope St. Anicetus?
    « Reply #1 on: January 09, 2014, 05:36:55 AM »
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  • Sources:

    The Faith of the Early Fathers: Pre-Nicene and Nicene eras, Vol. 1, p. 264, edited by W. A. Jurgens, 1970.

    An Ecclesiastical History to the Year 324 of the Christian Era: And the ...By Eusebius (of Caesarea, Bishop of Caesarea), found HERE

    Thurston, Herbert. "Easter Controversy." The Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol. 5. New York: Robert Appleton Company, 1909. <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05228a.htm>.

    Kirsch, Johann Peter. "Pope St. Victor I." The Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol. 15. New York: Robert Appleton Company, 1912. <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15408a.htm>.

    Bacchus, Francis Joseph. "St. Polycarp." The Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol. 12. New York: Robert Appleton Company, 1911. <http://www.new advent.org/cathen/12219b.htm>.

    Campbell, Thomas. "Pope St. Anicetus." The Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol. 1. New York: Robert Appleton Company, 1907. <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01514a.htm>.
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Did St. Polycarp Resist Pope St. Anicetus?
    « Reply #2 on: January 09, 2014, 06:28:21 AM »
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  • So what are you trying to say, that it's never permitted to resist a pope?  Despite the fact that St. Paul tells us that he "resisted [St. Peter] to his face"?  Despite the fact that St. Robert Bellarmine et al. teach otherwise?

    Offline TKGS

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    Did St. Polycarp Resist Pope St. Anicetus?
    « Reply #3 on: January 09, 2014, 06:29:22 AM »
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  • Frankly, these tracts about saints "resisting" other saints in the early Church or people "resisting" various popes and bishops through history are getting tiresome.  There is absolutely no comparison possible between "resisting" pope whose actions cause scandal (as St. Peter's actions did to which St. Paul resisted) and the current situation in which all good Catholics will reject the papal claimants because they are not Catholic.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Did St. Polycarp Resist Pope St. Anicetus?
    « Reply #4 on: January 09, 2014, 11:19:48 AM »
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  • Ambrose is a sedevacantist, but he's also given to papalatry, asserting that every utterance from the mouth of any pope is tantamout to a divine oracle from the Holy Spirit.


    Offline SJB

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    Did St. Polycarp Resist Pope St. Anicetus?
    « Reply #5 on: January 09, 2014, 11:37:35 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Ambrose is a sedevacantist, but he's also given to papalatry, asserting that every utterance from the mouth of any pope is tantamout to a divine oracle from the Holy Spirit.


    No, he just understands that there are practical judgments and doctrinal ones. The pope is protected from making errors in faith and morals, as it is usually put, but certainly capable of both sin and bad practical decisions.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline Mabel

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    Did St. Polycarp Resist Pope St. Anicetus?
    « Reply #6 on: January 09, 2014, 11:55:49 AM »
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  • Fascinating topic. I was familiar with the Easter dating controversy but only that which occurred at the time of St. Bede the Venerable.

    It seems to me that the issue has been approached with the intention of making history serve one's own purpose in that tract. Maybe the author is not a historian and has no training in Historiography or the importance of docuмentation. I was really sorry to see such poor scholarship and it makes me question other articles on the same site.

    I've also noticed that many modern heretics and cults seem to base their false religions around the dating of Easter. To me, that is another proof as to why the office of the papacy is such a critical antidote to heresy. I'd rather be on the side of Peter than on my own.

    It also goes to show that it is dangerous to publish tracts and books on such matters, and in such a poorly docuмented manner, as one is responsible for the damage they may do to souls. How many people are led to hold errors regarding the papacy and the conduct of the saints?

    Offline Histrionics

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    Did St. Polycarp Resist Pope St. Anicetus?
    « Reply #7 on: January 09, 2014, 12:45:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Ambrose is a sedevacantist, but he's also given to papalatry, asserting that every utterance from the mouth of any pope is tantamout to a divine oracle from the Holy Spirit.


    Nah.  Just capable of making adequate distinctions, something sorely lacking in this sub forum.  


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Did St. Polycarp Resist Pope St. Anicetus?
    « Reply #8 on: January 09, 2014, 01:00:50 PM »
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  • Some of you wouldn't know a distinction, much less a proper distinction, if it hit you in the face.

    Offline Matto

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    Did St. Polycarp Resist Pope St. Anicetus?
    « Reply #9 on: January 09, 2014, 01:08:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Ambrose is a sedevacantist, but he's also given to papalatry, asserting that every utterance from the mouth of any pope is tantamout to a divine oracle from the Holy Spirit.

    I have noticed this also, although he did say to me that he thought that Popes can err.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Ambrose

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    Did St. Polycarp Resist Pope St. Anicetus?
    « Reply #10 on: January 09, 2014, 01:47:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    So what are you trying to say, that it's never permitted to resist a pope?  Despite the fact that St. Paul tells us that he "resisted [St. Peter] to his face"?  Despite the fact that St. Robert Bellarmine et al. teach otherwise?


    Did you read it?  It was very clear, was it not?  I was examining the claims of Atila Sinke Guimarãess in regard to St. Polycarp resisting St. Pope Anicetus.  

    I fact checked his assertions, and the results are in my opening post.  
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic


    Offline Cantarella

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    Did St. Polycarp Resist Pope St. Anicetus?
    « Reply #11 on: January 09, 2014, 01:47:51 PM »
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  • Ambrose,

    I appreciate your response and I am looking forward further research on the other resistance examples cited by Mr. Atila Sinke Guimarãess. The bottom line is that you consider these historical antecedents to be biased and false, because according to you no pope has ever taught error, since this is an impossibility. You conclude therefore, that since 1958 (?), the Seat of Peter must be vacant.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Ambrose

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    Did St. Polycarp Resist Pope St. Anicetus?
    « Reply #12 on: January 09, 2014, 02:05:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    Ambrose,

    I appreciate your response and I am looking forward further research on the other resistance examples cited by Mr. Atila Sinke Guimarãess. The bottom line is that you consider these historical antecedents to be biased and false, because according to you no pope has ever taught error, since this is an impossibility. You conclude therefore, that since 1958 (?), the Seat of Peter must be vacant.


    Cantarella,

    The reason that I am responding to this, and replying to these "historical examples," is because when I read them, I see right through this historical tabloid junk.  These tracts should be condemned by Catholics and when we once again have a Pope, I have no doubt that they will be condemned and Catholics forbidden to read them.  

    These tracts are eerily similar to those used by the enemies of the Church, Protestants and Old Catholics who have an agenda in trying to undermine the Papacy.  It is shocking and scandalous that some Catholics, also with an agenda, have chosen to intellectually ally themselves with Protestants in demonstrating supposed weakness to the Papacy.

    I now believe the time has come to shed light on these claims, so that the truth will be known.  I am doing this as an aside from any proofs that the Conciliar claimants are antipopes.  
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic