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Author Topic: Did Priests Allow This Pre-V2?  (Read 1331 times)

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Offline SaintsSoaring

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Did Priests Allow This Pre-V2?
« on: October 30, 2017, 11:20:15 AM »
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  • Did priests do this/allow this:
    • Show Christian movies in Churches? (with projector screen)
    • Hold Catholic seminars in Churches?
    • Graduation ceremonies in Churches?
    • Hold Church fundraisers in Churches?

    Or was the Church building for Catholic worship only?


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Did Priests Allow This Pre-V2?
    « Reply #1 on: October 30, 2017, 12:02:00 PM »
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  • Did priests do this/allow this:
    • - Show Christian movies in Churches? (with projector screen)
    • - Hold Catholic seminars in Churches?
    • - Graduation ceremonies in Churches?
    • - Hold Church fundraisers in Churches?

    Or was the Church building for Catholic worship only?
    .
    Ideally the Church proper should be used only for Mass and religious ceremony, such as Baptisms, Rosary, Stations of the Cross, Benediction, Vespers, Holy Hour, Confessions, that sort of thing. Conferences, fund raisers, Legion of Mary, Catechism classes, graduation ceremonies, Christian movies (with screen), pancake breakfasts and the like would be held in the Parish Hall. Well, what if you don't have a parish hall, and it's raining outside?
    .
    Bottom line, you can do any of these things inside the Church proper when you don't have any alternative place to go, but you must remove the Blessed Sacrament from the tabernacle, and it's a good idea to leave the door open so everyone can see that the tabernacle is empty, such as on Good Friday when you use the Altar of Repose. Only this time you don't use the Altar of Repose, you take the Blessed Sacrament out of the building entirely and use another secure location. This might be a difficulty for the priest.
    .
    When a new parish is being built, the first building used for Mass is constructed in an off-center place where it can eventually be used as a parish hall after the permanent Church is established. One building project at a time, as the funds can be collected and saved up. A growing parish presents a lot of challenges for the pastor and the faithful. This is all inherently part of Catholic tradition.
    .
    After the novelties following Vatican II, when the tabernacle was moved away from the center of the main altar, this invited other innovations. When Our Lord is in exile every day as a matter of course, people forget to genuflect, and that's seen as an accommodation to help Protestants feel better coming inside for whatever reason, like a funeral or a musical program or a wedding. So that's all part of the revolution of Newchurch, and a different topic as it were. That is, I'm not sure if you're asking about that.
    .
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    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Did Priests Allow This Pre-V2?
    « Reply #2 on: October 30, 2017, 01:08:44 PM »
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  • I have never heard of showing movies in Churches before Vatican 2.

    I have never heard of pre-Vatican 2 pastors holding graduation ceremonies or Church fundraisers in the Church, though I would not doubt that parishes might hold a votive Mass on the occasion of the graduation from the parish school--but I doubt they actually handed out diplomas, etc.

    As for "Catholic seminars", if you're talking about a mission where a priest comes in to preach, I have heard that this was done in pre-Vatican 2 Churches.  If you're talking about some other kind of seminar, I'm not sure what you are describing.

    Offline PG

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    Re: Did Priests Allow This Pre-V2?
    « Reply #3 on: October 30, 2017, 03:08:40 PM »
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  • saintsoaring - I am pretty sure that back in the middle ages/early renaissance when churches were quite large and did not always have pews, they used churches for more than just prayer.  I think they held gatherings of sorts.  However, back then there was such a thing as a sanctuary, and that was certainly not profaned in such gatherings if they took place.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Did Priests Allow This Pre-V2?
    « Reply #4 on: October 30, 2017, 07:57:28 PM »
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  • As for "Catholic seminars", if you're talking about a mission where a priest comes in to preach, I have heard that this was done in pre-Vatican 2 Churches.  If you're talking about some other kind of seminar, I'm not sure what you are describing.
    Mission type seminars were definitely held in at least one pre-Vat. 2 church.  There's a family anecdote about a men's mission my father attended in 1952, while on shore leave from the Navy.  The church still exists with only a novus ordo table put in front of the high altar.  The story goes that my Dad came in early for Confession.  There were only about a dozen men in the church that seats approximately 250.  Dad knelt in the front pew, Epistle side, to say his penance.  While he was doing so, a local street character known as "Smelly Sal" came in, genuflected, and sat right next to my Dad, remaining there for the entire mission as the church filled up.  Dad was too polite to get up and move past him.  He figured that was his real penance!  But the mission, given by a priest, was definitely held in the church.  He does not recall whether or not the Blessed Sacrament was present.  


    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Did Priests Allow This Pre-V2?
    « Reply #5 on: October 30, 2017, 08:17:29 PM »
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  • Before Vatican II, I remember the parish churches using the church for the parochial 8th grade graduation ceremonies. The graduates processed into a quiet and somber church and a brief prayer was read over them, then the pastor gave a rather lengthy sermon urging the graduates to be faithful to the Holy Faith. The entire ceremony took less than 30 minutes.  For the ladies, all dressed in white like brides, it was the first time many wore their first pair of high heels, so they wobbled up the aisle.  For the guys, it was the first time that we saw them in a proper suit and tie. I do not remember any graduation certificates being handed out, but after the graduation ceremony, the graduates and parents went into the classroom and were served refreshments. While the girls abstained from the cookies and cakes in an effort to trim off pounds for the summer months, the young men took double or triple portions and then looked for more. They had bottomless legs.

    Catholic High Schools had two ceremonies as did the Catholic colleges. The first ceremony was in church where prayers were read over the graduates and sermon(s) were delivered. The dress was formal. The second ceremony, which involved caps and gowns, was generally held in the auditorium, in the football field, or at a public venue.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Re: Did Priests Allow This Pre-V2?
    « Reply #6 on: October 30, 2017, 08:36:38 PM »
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  • Did priests do this/allow this:
    • Show Christian movies in Churches? (with projector screen)
    • Hold Catholic seminars in Churches?
    • Graduation ceremonies in Churches?
    • Hold Church fundraisers in Churches?

    Or was the Church building for Catholic worship only?

    No Movies were shown in my pre-Vatican 2 Parish Church. Unheard of in any Catholic Church at that time.
    There was a large room in the Parish School in which once a month was a cafeteria. In those days all
    students brown bag their lunches.

    No Seminars, there was a large room inside the Parish School I was attending. Unheard of in any Catholic
    Church at that time.
    All the years my family attended the church I have no memory of Seminars even from visiting Priests.

    Yes, there were Graduation Ceremonies in my Parish Church. This is because the Parish did not have a
    Parish Hall until 1965 when they completed the new church building and the former church became the
    Parish Hall.

    It was unheard of having fundraisers in a Catholic Church for secular causes.  There were special collections
    only for church causes in which the basket was past around after communion.

    Offline poche

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    Re: Did Priests Allow This Pre-V2?
    « Reply #7 on: October 31, 2017, 12:19:27 AM »
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  • I have never heard of showing movies in Churches before Vatican 2.

    I have never heard of pre-Vatican 2 pastors holding graduation ceremonies or Church fundraisers in the Church, though I would not doubt that parishes might hold a votive Mass on the occasion of the graduation from the parish school--but I doubt they actually handed out diplomas, etc.

    As for "Catholic seminars", if you're talking about a mission where a priest comes in to preach, I have heard that this was done in pre-Vatican 2 Churches.  If you're talking about some other kind of seminar, I'm not sure what you are describing.
    The Redemptorists were founded with this charism in mind.


    Offline poche

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    Re: Did Priests Allow This Pre-V2?
    « Reply #8 on: October 31, 2017, 01:22:07 AM »
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  • In the 18th century the Acadian people were gathered in their churches (Catholic churches) and were told that they must convert to the Protestant religion or be deported. That is why we have  Cajuns in Louisiana.
     

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Did Priests Allow This Pre-V2?
    « Reply #9 on: October 31, 2017, 01:50:17 AM »
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  • I would say No to all four questions; and when we talk of missions I believe they a form of religious instruction, part of a more extensive time of prayer and spiritual refreshment, and renewal of faith. These were regarded as a Church service, not a conference.

    In a pioneering situation churches may have been used for parish activities other than prayer, but only if there was no alternative.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Did Priests Allow This Pre-V2?
    « Reply #10 on: October 31, 2017, 02:24:19 AM »
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  • Use of a screen to separate the tabernacle area from the nave of the church.

    When I was a teenager, we lived in Richmond, California. There is a Catholic Church that is located on the San Pablo Dam Road.

    Even though that church was built before Vatican II, it was an ugly, modernist, rectangular-shaped, multi-purpose red brick building commonly being built during the 1950s. In the middle of that church was a collapsible screen (a room divider commonly seen in hotels), so that the screen could be closed shut dividing the altar from the nave immediately after the Mass to host a coffee and donut hour, teach catechism, hold youth dances, have a conference, or even rent it out to the very Protestants who called it the Catholic Church on the Dam Road.

    :o

    Although this church had regular pews located near the altar, it had collapsible metal seats near the back where the screen was located. It also had a choir loft in the back.

    By the way, I do not know if the name of the road has changed today as faithful Catholics had been continually spearheading movements to change the name of that road. Why they purchased that land in the first place, I will never understand. Perhaps some naive priest did not notice the name of the road. However, businesses in the area rejected any change in the name as it would cost them dearly to buy new stationery, redo advertising, etc.
    Lord have mercy.


    Offline stgobnait

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    Re: Did Priests Allow This Pre-V2?
    « Reply #11 on: October 31, 2017, 04:10:47 AM »
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  • I recall BF giving a conference from the Sanctuary in St John's Church in Dun Laoire a number of years ago.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Did Priests Allow This Pre-V2?
    « Reply #12 on: October 31, 2017, 08:15:32 AM »
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  • Never ever to my knowledge, however, I do remember one time when the parish was approached by a production company for the purpose of making a movie.  We were told the Blessed Sacrament would be removed with proper rubrics and taken to the rectory.  Time approx. of this happening was somewhere in the late 50's.

    Not sure if that was a bad thing, even today when I watch an old classic movie and see the inside or a Mass of pre VII I get that feeling of putting my hand in an old coat pocket and find a $50.00 bill I had no idea I had.  
    Please pray for my soul.
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    Offline Irish_Catholic

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    Re: Did Priests Allow This Pre-V2?
    « Reply #13 on: October 31, 2017, 01:00:25 PM »
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  • Did priests do this/allow this:
    • Show Christian movies in Churches? (with projector screen)
    • Hold Catholic seminars in Churches?
    • Graduation ceremonies in Churches?
    • Hold Church fundraisers in Churches?

    Or was the Church building for Catholic worship only?
    I guess it depends on how far back in history you want to go.
    Pre-reformation in England, for instance, the nave of a church was considered to belong to the laity, and it was used for all sorts of non-religious purposes on a daily basis. There are records showing that people used to light fires and cook in the nave of old St. Paul's Cathedral in London. Lawyers used it as a place to meet their clients, and scribes sold their services from booths set up along the outer walls.
    In country parishes, the church was often the only building of substance in the area, and was used for council meetings, as a courtroom, for plays, and 'church ales' were a regular occurrence for fund-raising purposes.
    Of course, all of this went on at a time when churches had a rood screen in place to separate the nave from the sanctuary and the altar. The laity were never allowed beyond the rood screen.
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    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Did Priests Allow This Pre-V2?
    « Reply #14 on: October 31, 2017, 05:00:51 PM »
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  • I guess it depends on how far back in history you want to go.
    Pre-reformation in England, for instance, the nave of a church was considered to belong to the laity, and it was used for all sorts of non-religious purposes on a daily basis. There are records showing that people used to light fires and cook in the nave of old St. Paul's Cathedral in London. Lawyers used it as a place to meet their clients, and scribes sold their services from booths set up along the outer walls.
    In country parishes, the church was often the only building of substance in the area, and was used for council meetings, as a courtroom, for plays, and 'church ales' were a regular occurrence for fund-raising purposes.
    Of course, all of this went on at a time when churches had a rood screen in place to separate the nave from the sanctuary and the altar. The laity were never allowed beyond the rood screen.
    That room divider at the Catholic Church on the Dam Road served better than a rood screen, for it totally blocked one's view of the altar and tabernacle, and allowed for secular activities.

    Yes, it is still on that Dam Road:

    http://www.thecatholicdirectory.com/directory.cfm?fuseaction=display_site_info&siteid=68070
    Lord have mercy.