Stubborn erroneously believes that the heretic has never left the Church and is still a member of Her Mystical Body. This is not only false but it’s also possibly blasphemous.

"In one sense, the heretic, as well as you and others, may or may not believe he is a Catholic, that's "in one sense."

In the other sense, if he was ever Catholic then the Church considers him a Catholic in mortal sin, one who needs to confess his sins and amend his life. That's "in the other sense." 

Your Reply:
Well, at least Stubborn makes sense of what you wrote, now you know you’re in trouble. 

It's been explained to you but you have what is apparently an impenetrable wall that guards your error. Your means of escaping is to make it into some sort of joke.A member of the Catholic Church is one of the Church Militant. Like the army deserter, when he deserts his post via heresy, schism, apostacy, he severed himself from the army, the Mystical Body. Yet the army, the Mystical Body still owns that member, that deserter, he is still one of theirs - and because he is still one of theirs, they are both after that deserter to get him to return - by force if necessary for the army, by guilty conscience for the Mystical Body. 

Should the deserter ever return to the army, he will be punished for his crimes. Should he ever return to the Mystical Body, he will be a rejoined member with the Mystical Body, no longer severed, he will be forgiven for his sins through the sacrament of penance, then he again has access to all the benefits exclusive to all members.

 in both cases, the deserter, run tho he may, could not escape the fact that he still belonged to the army / still belonged to the Mystical Body, which is why a penitent heretic on his deathbed, unlike non-Catholics, can still receive the sacrament same as every other member of the Mystical Body.     

You probably consider this blasphemous.

I agree with your stance, but could you explain the difference between a baptized heretic, and, say, a protestant, when it comes to confession/penance and readmittance to the sacraments? That still isn't clear to me. By the definition of those, such as QvD, who believe that a baptized Catholic turned heretic is no longer Catholic, if they are no longer Catholic, that should put them on the same footing as any other non-Catholic, such as a protestant, muslim, hindu or whatever.

And yet a baptized Catholic can be reconciled with the Church, while the other non-Catholics (protestant, hindu, muslim, etc.) cannot be reconciled.  Can you explain the distinction? Thanks! (Perhaps you have explained it already and I missed it).

Pax, there is nothing so complicated about this that only those with your high intelligence level are able to comprehend it.

Pax, there is nothing so complicated about this that only those with your high intelligence level are able to comprehend it. 

It all has to do with the faith, specifically, whether or not one has ever had the Catholic faith but no longer does, if so, then he was "once a Catholic."

St. Thomas says that baptism without the faith is of no value, this is why we must both, be baptized and have the faith in order to receive the sacraments because the Church only administers her sacrament to Catholics, in this discussion all those who have never had the Catholic faith are excluded.

To be reconciled, one must necessarily  have previously been "conciled," this leaves all those who've never had the Catholic faith out. 

I used the army soldier for an example, because "once in the army, always in the army," at least until they discharge him from the army. The difference is the Church never discharges anyone. She is always there nurturing her children and waiting for sinners to repent. 

While it is certainly true that we are free to "sever" all ties with our mother, and hate her and become heretical idiots against her, unlike prots, that does not mean that she is not or never was our mother. She was our mother when we had the Catholic faith, she will remain our mother no matter what.

PPXII says:
"22. Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or  been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed.....It follows that those are divided in faith or government cannot be living in the unity of such a Body, nor can they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit."



The underlined tells us what a Catholic is. Whoever has been baptized and professed (NO! The word is “profess”. Present tense NOT past tense “professed”  ) the true faith is a Catholic, always will be even if they "separate themselves from the unity of the Body," they will not separate themselves from the Body, they will still be a Catholic *to the Church,* maybe not to you and I, but to the Church they will, even if they do not want to be, even if they convert to Hinduism and tell everyone they are no longer Catholic.....because should they ever choose to repent, the sacrament of penance is there waiting for them.

 (What total garbage! You now try to twist the pope’s words by saying that he means one can: “separate themselves from the unity of the Body, they will not separate themselves from the body”. You try to make a distinction when there isn’t one which is demonstrated in the pope’s next paragraph. )

The rest of PPXII quote tells us that through sin that we can separate ourselves from the unity of the body, not from the Mystical Body - from the *unity* of the Mystical Body. Which is of course what happens when one loses the faith and/or preaches heresies. PPXII goes on to include those excluded from that same unity of the Mystical Body by legitimate authority for grave faults committed. 


That is NOT what the pope is saying! Here is the paragraph you conveniently left out:

“Nor must one imagine that the Body of the Church, just because it bears the name of Christ, is made up during the days of its earthly pilgrimage only of members conspicuous for their holiness, or that it consists only of those whom God has predestined to eternal happiness. It is owing to the Savior's infinite mercy that place is allowed in His Mystical Body here below for those whom, of old, He did not exclude from the banquet.[20] For not every sin, however grave it may be, is such as of its own nature to sever a man from the Body of the Church, as does schism or heresy or apostasy. Men may lose charity and divine grace through sin, thus becoming incapable of supernatural merit, and yet not be deprived of all life if they hold fast to faith and Christian hope, and if, illumined from above, they are spurred on by the interior promptings of the Holy Spirit to salutary fear and are moved to prayer and penance for their sins.


He contradicts your HETERODOX garbage right in the next paragraph! 

PPXII goes on to include those excluded from that same unity of the Mystical Body by legitimate authority for grave faults committed.