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Author Topic: Did I miss something or is this just the New Church?  (Read 535 times)

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Offline CathMomof7

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Did I miss something or is this just the New Church?
« on: August 29, 2012, 11:22:58 AM »
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  • I don't know, but maybe I missed something.

    I thought Judas was overcome by the Devil.  Isn't that what the Scripture says, that Satan entered Judas?  I also thought he realized what he had done, selling Our Lord to the Jєωs, and had deep regret.  Didn't he try to return the 30 pieces of silver?  Didn't the Jєωs laugh in his face?  I also thought that he was so overcome with despair about what he had done that he hung himself instead of ask for forgiveness, which Our Lord surely would have given him.  

    Am I wrong about this?  

    Are we to believe now that Judas was just being dishonest?  And therefore he is to be held as an example that we should all just be honest with ourselves about what we believe?  And if we don't believe what the Church teaches we should just leave?  

    Is he really serious?  We should just LEAVE and DAMN OUR SOULS to hell?

    What happened to conversion?  I thought we are SUPPOSED to convert??  And if we can't, we are supposed to pray for the grace to understand what we need to understand to make that happen.

    I am really confused.  Please help me understand this.

    The Pope suggests it's best to be honest and leave the Church is you don't believe.


    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    Did I miss something or is this just the New Church?
    « Reply #1 on: August 29, 2012, 12:08:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: Linked article
    Msgr. Barreiro, who holds a doctorate in Dogmatic theology, told LifeSiteNews that “for those Catholics who cannot bring themselves to believe the formal teachings of the Church on life and family matters it would be more honest to leave the Church rather than betraying Her.”


    Whoa! Isn't defecting from the faith, or "to leave the Church," the same thing as "betraying Her"?

    Those who "cannot bring themselves to believe the formal teachings of the Church on life and family matter" appear to have fallen into formal heresy, cutting themselves off from the Mystical Body of Christ, and occasioning grave scandal for the faithful by such pertinacity and (in this case) the obscene transgression of the 5th, 6th and 9th Commandments. Not to mention that fact that such people have betrayed their sacred Baptismal vows by their pertinacity in heresy and immorality.

    Quote from: Linked article
    “Judas,” said Pope Benedict, “could have left, as many of the disciples did; indeed, he would have left if he were honest. Instead he remained with Jesus. He did not remain because of faith, or because of love, but with the secret intention of taking vengeance on the Master.”


    The carefully crafted ambiguity and deliberate semantic ambivalence inherent in the Johannine-Pauline discourse whereby a new economy of salvation, which is contrary and mutually exclusive to the teachings of Holy Mother Church, can be presented to the faithful in such an obfuscating manner is hereby exemplified.

    In the Johannine-Pauline economy of salvation, or, "the springtime of love" or "new Pentecost," anyone can be saved so long as they are "honest" and "good" in the eyes of the world . What can stop these people from applying the principles of false œcuмenism to baptized Catholics? Why not apply them to Judas while they are at it? Such devastating aberrations are the fruits of "Vatican II" and its concomitant culture.

    Avarice, along with the malicious deicide which he shared with the Pharisees, the ancients and the Priests of the Temple, was the reason why Judas remained in the company of Our Lord and the Apostles.

    In the Norbertine Breviary, we find the following Responsories that illustrate the reprobation which Judas chose of his own free will, which he had perverted by turning away from Our Lord:


    ℟. The most wicked merchant Judas sought our Lord with a kiss: He like an innocent lamb refused not a kiss to Judas: * For a number of pence hath he betrayed Christ to the Jєωs.
       ℣. Inebriated with the poison of avarice, whilst thirsting after the lucre, he came unto the snare. * For a number of pence hath he betrayed Christ to the Jєωs.
       3rd ℟. at Matins, Tuesday within Holy Week (S. Luke xxii. 48. S. Matt. xxvi. 48, 49. Cf. S. John xii. 4-6. Cf. Ps. xxxiv. 8. Cf. Prov. xxix. 6. Cf. Ecclus. xxvii. 29. Cf. I Tim. iii. 8, 7.)

    ℟. O Judas, who didst forsake the counsel of Peace, and hast taken counsel with the Jєωs: for thirty pieces of silver hast thou sold just Blood: * And thou didst offer the kiss of the peace which thou didst not have in thy heart.
       ℣. Thy mouth hath abounded in malice, and thy tongue hath forged guiles.  * And thou didst offer the kiss of the peace which thou didst not have in thy heart.
       9th ℟. at Matins, Maundy Thursday (Cf. S. Matt. xxvi. 14, 15. Cf. S. Mark xiv. 10, 11. Cf. S. Luke xxii. 3, 4, 5. Cf. S. John xiii. 21 sqq. Ps. xlix. 19.)




    The Dominican Breviary has the following Responsory, which illustrates the severity and justice of Judas' reprobation:


    ℟. The heavens shall reveal the iniquity of Judas, and the earth shall rise against him: and his sin shall be made manifest in the day of the Lord’s fury * With them, who have said to the Lord God: Depart from us, we will not the knowledge of Thy ways.
       ℣. Unto the day of perdition shall he be kept, and unto the day of vengeance shall he be led forth * With them, who have said to the Lord God: Depart from us, we will not the knowledge of Thy ways.
       9th ℟. at Matins, Maundy Thursday, (Cf. Job xx. 27, 28; xxi. 14, 30.)
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.


    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Did I miss something or is this just the New Church?
    « Reply #2 on: August 30, 2012, 02:41:35 PM »
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  • Leaving new church isn't all that bad of an idea.    

    However, merely not understanding something is not a reason to leave because the human intellect is limited and can be clouded by emotions.  It's understandable to be perplexed by a mystery of the faith and being in this condition would be a cause for prayer but they are mysteries of faith and this can be something we wouldn't understand in ordinary concrete terms.  Greater understanding is often a gift of grace and the recipient should be tremendously grateful.

    But to not understand something (or more likely to secretly disagree with it) and to insist that the teaching in particular be changed or "dumbed down" is an act of betrayal and deception.  

    Humility is required to admit when we don't understand some of the profound mysteries of faith.  Humility is completely absent in the modernists.

    P.S. - Judas was dishonest but it's a dishonesty that goes a lot deeper than the way we would see that word.