Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: PG on July 28, 2014, 11:05:23 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA4x1GwTV5I
According to Fr. Jenkins, "as a matter of fact", the answer is yes. Starting at minute 2:50 in the video, you will hear that when Fr. Barbara visited Dr. coomariswamy in the usa, Fr. Jenkins was present, and this precise question was brought up. Fr. Barbara said that "yes", Abp. Thuc knew that "Jean Laborie was a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ and a non catholic" because, he "told him".
I have posted this because there are members on this forum who posited this exact question a few months ago(asking for "proof" that Abp. Thuc "knowingly" consecrated jean laborie with this information). And, I present this as proof, and this should be sufficient.
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I know there are 16 parts of this video series, but parts of it are really worth watching. I recommend listening to the parts where Fr. Jenkins is speaking throughout the series. He presents a lot of good information.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA4x1GwTV5I
According to Fr. Jenkins, "as a matter of fact", the answer is yes. Starting at minute 2:50 in the video, you will hear that when Fr. Barbara visited Dr. coomariswamy in the usa, Fr. Jenkins was present, and this precise question was brought up. Fr. Barbara said that "yes", Abp. Thuc knew that "Jean Laborie was a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ and a non catholic" because, he "told him".
I have posted this because there are members on this forum who posited this exact question a few months ago(asking for "proof" that Abp. Thuc "knowingly" consecrated jean laborie with this information). And, I present this as proof, and this should be sufficient.
I would like to see a direct statement from Fr. Barbara rather than hearsay.
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When someone charges an action that seems to run counter to everything we know about a man, one person's accusation is not sufficient evidence of the charge.
Right now we have one person saying that another person said that a third person said something. This has never been credible evidence whether for legal purposes or even for moral certainty. I'm sure Father Jenkins believes it, but I think his prejudice against the Thuc consecrations may have colored his judgment.
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And there weren't many things that Bishop Alfred Mendez did that were, say, somewhat "scandalous"? Bishop Thuc certainly seemed to be easily manipulated by strong personalities, but that has nothing to do with the validity of the consecrations; all he would have need to validly confect the Sacraments was a basic understanding that he was doing what the Church does to pass on the episcopacy. Prudence and judgment and personal virtue have nothing to do with it. Bishop Mendez, on the other hand, had suffered a stroke not too long before the consecration of Bishop Kelly and reportedly did not recognize one of his close relatives. To me there are greater questions about the Mendez consecration / ordinations than about the ones performed by Bishop Thuc.
According to witnesses, every time Bishop Mendez got to the essential words for the ordination of Fathers Greenwell and Baumberger, he mysteriously sped up and garbled the words. Father Kelly had to ask him to repeat them several times. He had said everything quite clearly until the actual words of ordination. Father Kelly later said that he would never do that again. Bishop Mendez for the longest time publicly denied having ordained these men, and the consecration was never made public until after Bishop Mendez' death. Bishop Thuc, when later asked about the consecrations he had done, never denied them ... even if sometimes he regreted a few. I know a priest who sat at table with Bishop Thuc. There were priests who spoke different languages there, and Bishop Thuc could switch from one language to another without skipping a beat. He clearly was in sufficient possession of his mental faculties to validly confer episcopal consecration.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA4x1GwTV5I
According to Fr. Jenkins, "as a matter of fact", the answer is yes. Starting at minute 2:50 in the video, you will hear that when Fr. Barbara visited Dr. coomariswamy in the usa, Fr. Jenkins was present, and this precise question was brought up. Fr. Barbara said that "yes", Abp. Thuc knew that "Jean Laborie was a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ and a non catholic" because, he "told him".
I have posted this because there are members on this forum who posited this exact question a few months ago(asking for "proof" that Abp. Thuc "knowingly" consecrated jean laborie with this information). And, I present this as proof, and this should be sufficient.
"Doubt about the probity of others is sinful, when there are no sufficient reasons for it,; for example, it would be unreasonable to suspend judgment about a man of excellent reputation because a well-knwn calumniator had spoken against him.."
(Charles Callan, O.P.)
There has never been any Catholic group/society to have spent so much time and money attempting to destroy the reputation of a particular Archbishop. The sspv have many, many hours of sermons debates and publications devoted to attacking Abp. Thuc.
All that manpower, all those hours and days, all that money to justify abuse of one single man.
When dirty politicians do this, we wonder what skeletons they have in their own closet.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA4x1GwTV5I
According to Fr. Jenkins, "as a matter of fact", the answer is yes. Starting at minute 2:50 in the video, you will hear that when Fr. Barbara visited Dr. coomariswamy in the usa, Fr. Jenkins was present, and this precise question was brought up. Fr. Barbara said that "yes", Abp. Thuc knew that "Jean Laborie was a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ and a non catholic" because, he "told him".
I have posted this because there are members on this forum who posited this exact question a few months ago(asking for "proof" that Abp. Thuc "knowingly" consecrated jean laborie with this information). And, I present this as proof, and this should be sufficient.
"Doubt about the probity of others is sinful, when there are no sufficient reasons for it,; for example, it would be unreasonable to suspend judgment about a man of excellent reputation because a well-knwn calumniator had spoken against him.."
(Charles Callan, O.P.)
There has never been any Catholic group/society to have spent so much time and money attempting to destroy the reputation of a particular Archbishop. The sspv have many, many hours of sermons debates and publications devoted to attacking Abp. Thuc.
All that manpower, all those hours and days, all that money to justify abuse of one single man.
When dirty politicians do this, we wonder what skeletons they have in their own closet.
Nice post. You gave your source and added your 2 cents which is worth a lot more. Very well done. :applause:
http://www.thucbishops.com/
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TKGS - You could insist that there are three parties involved(thuc as third); but by doing so, you bring into question his mental state.
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TKGS - You could insist that there are three parties involved(thuc as third); but by doing so, you bring into question his mental state.
What? Never mind. I need to stop biting at your poisonous bait.
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The lesson from this is to never become a sedevacantist.
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................Bishop Mendez for the longest time publicly denied having ordained these men, and the consecration was never made public until after Bishop Mendez' death. Bishop Thuc, when later asked about the consecrations he had done, never denied them ... even if sometimes he regreted a few. [./quote]
The hypocrisy is so sad.
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The lesson from this is to never become a sedevacantist.
Hey Md. Trad,
They give SVs a bad name.
:alcohol:
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The lesson from this is to never become a sedevacantist.
This has nothing to do with sedevacantism. It has to do with a group (SSPV), along with their lay supporters, that have a bizarre obsession with Archbishop Thuc.
The CMRI never talks like this. They are to busy caring about people's salvation, making endless sacrifices driving all across the country, flying to other countries, visiting the sick and dying, operating countless schools to educate future Catholics, etc, to worry about silly nonsense like the SSPV seems to do almost daily,
Maybe that's why the CMRI is a tree of great fruit, they are growing all over the U.S and the world, while SSPV remains stagnant in the mostly the same chapels they had when SSPV began.
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marylandtrad - If sedeplenism wasn't so far fetched, your comment would be useful. None the less, I am glad that you are viewing these topics.
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The lesson from this is to never become a sedevacantist.
I know some bad and erroneous Catholics. The lesson from this is never to become a Catholic.
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I know there are 16 parts of this video series, but parts of it are really worth watching. I recommend listening to the parts where Fr. Jenkins is speaking throughout the series. He presents a lot of good information.
Such as, "The CMRIs are simply not Catholic."
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I know there are 16 parts of this video series, but parts of it are really worth watching. I recommend listening to the parts where Fr. Jenkins is speaking throughout the series. He presents a lot of good information.
Such as, "The CMRIs are simply not Catholic."
He did present a lot of good information about how cults happen.
I would recommend listening to anyone other than Father Jenkins on this issue.
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There still is to this day consensus among those who investigated Thuc/interviewed Dr. Hiller and Heller(Bp. Kelly, Fr. Jenkins, Fr. Sanborn). Fr. Sanborn does not think highly of Thuc or of the CMRI. That tells you something.
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There still is to this day consensus among those who investigated Thuc/interviewed Dr. Hiller and Heller(Bp. Kelly, Fr. Jenkins, Fr. Sanborn). Fr. Sanborn does not think highly of Thuc or of the CMRI. That tells you something.
The question is about validity. On that there is no question. Some people don't think highly of Father Sandborn, Bishop Kelly, Father Jenkins or the SSPV.
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There still is to this day consensus among those who investigated Thuc/interviewed Dr. Hiller and Heller(Bp. Kelly, Fr. Jenkins, Fr. Sanborn). Fr. Sanborn does not think highly of Thuc or of the CMRI. That tells you something.
The question is about validity. On that there is no question. Some people don't think highly of Father Sandborn, Bishop Kelly, Father Jenkins or the SSPV.
True, but I would change the word "Some" to "Most."
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I know there are 16 parts of this video series, but parts of it are really worth watching. I recommend listening to the parts where Fr. Jenkins is speaking throughout the series. He presents a lot of good information.
Such as, "The CMRIs are simply not Catholic."
He did present a lot of good information about how cults happen.
I would recommend listening to anyone other than Father Jenkins on this issue.
Had to edit-because what I wrote could have been mis-understood as Jenkins offering info on CMRI as a cult.
More like calling the kettle black!
To be more clear, watching this video is forensic evidence of religious insanity. Notice how he goes on for 4 hours convincing people to hate Thuc.
See how compelling is the obsession to hate Thuc, as if he was the most evil person ever, worse than all Lodges put together.
Hour upon hour these sessions go on from SSPV. There used to be hours and hours of these talks on their cult radio archives.
If you listen to it long enough, you begin to believe it must be true.
At some point, people wake up and ask, "Why?"
It is not as if they are protecting souls from exploitation by unethical schismatic groups. They actively keep people OUT of their group. I know this by listening to them field calls in the office, and by people in the area who were interested but didn't pass the screening sessions.
:heretic:
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There still is to this day consensus among those who investigated Thuc/interviewed Dr. Hiller and Heller(Bp. Kelly, Fr. Jenkins, Fr. Sanborn). Fr. Sanborn does not think highly of Thuc or of the CMRI. That tells you something.
This tells me they believe everyone else is as evil as they. Liars always think everybody else is lying.
It is no wonder their nuns had to pay 1/2 million dollars in damages for destroying another person's reputation recently.
They started their enterprise by attacking and suing Archbishop Lefebvre. It's what they do.
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I know there are 16 parts of this video series, but parts of it are really worth watching. I recommend listening to the parts where Fr. Jenkins is speaking throughout the series. He presents a lot of good information.
Such as, "The CMRIs are simply not Catholic."
He did present a lot of good information about how cults happen.
I would recommend listening to anyone other than Father Jenkins on this issue.
Had to edit-because what I wrote could have been mis-understood as Jenkins offering info on CMRI as a cult.
More like calling the kettle black!
To be more clear, watching this video is forensic evidence of religious insanity. Notice how he goes on for 4 hours convincing people to hate Thuc.
See how compelling is the obsession to hate Thuc, as if he was the most evil person ever, worse than all Lodges put together.
Hour upon hour these sessions go on from SSPV. There used to be hours and hours of these talks on their cult radio archives.
If you listen to it long enough, you begin to believe it must be true.
At some point, people wake up and ask, "Why?"
It is not as if they are protecting souls from exploitation by unethical schismatic groups. They actively keep people OUT of their group. I know this by listening to them field calls in the office, and by people in the area who were interested but didn't pass the screening sessions.
:heretic:
You know Elizabeth, it is absolutely insane. Beyond any fathomable comprehension unless you experience it. You know this. I have experienced it. It is very sad. Many of us are grandly inconsistent to a maddening degree. The SSPV clergy are knowledgeable. They have been through the fire. Many appear to be holy and some might be. They seem to be tireless workers.
But. . .
And the "but" is so large and so seemingly damnable. What is the deal man? They protest too much. Who are they trying to convince? Themselves?
Why have they not even made an attempt to refute Mario.
Because they can't.
Because they are wrong, and blatantly so.
It is absolutely insanely silly and quite damnable. One of those things we would never believe were it not true.
If people want to hear truth why not go here:
http://traditionalcatholicsermons.org/index_files/CMRI_Archives.htm
The Proto Evangelium And The Church Of Our Time_Part I (75 Minutes)
The Proto Evangelium And The Church Of Our Time_Part II (77 Minutes)
He mentions and puts into perspective quite eloquently the madness of some, in this instance he talks about home-aloners who insist on proof, pictures, witnesses etc. in regards to the Thuc Consecrations and when all that is provided they insist on more. It is laughable, sad and evil for those who should know better at the same time.
Stay the heck away from Jenkins when it come the Thuc consecrations as he has an INCREDIBLE bias which is not based on reality. He is going to have to answer for his actions. And keep potential converts away from Father Jenkins as well. It appears that soul-saving is not his first priority, a rather sad comment in regards to a Priest.
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You know Elizabeth, it is absolutely insane. Beyond any fathomable comprehension unless you experience it. You know this. I have experienced it. It is very sad. Many of us are grandly inconsistent to a maddening degree. The SSPV clergy are knowledgeable. They have been through the fire. Many appear to be holy and some might be. They seem to be tireless workers.
But. . .
And the "but" is so large and so seemingly damnable. What is the deal man? They protest too much. Who are they trying to convince? Themselves?
Why have they not even made an attempt to refute Mario.
Because they can't.
Because they are wrong, and blatantly so.
It is absolutely insanely silly and quite damnable. One of those things we would never believe were it not true.
If people want to hear truth why not go here:
http://traditionalcatholicsermons.org/index_files/CMRI_Archives.htm
The Proto Evangelium And The Church Of Our Time_Part I (75 Minutes)
The Proto Evangelium And The Church Of Our Time_Part II (77 Minutes)
He mentions and puts into perspective quite eloquently the madness of some, in this instance he talks about home-aloners who insist on proof, pictures, witnesses etc. in regards to the Thuc Consecrations and when all that is provided they insist on more. It is laughable, sad and evil for those who should know better at the same time.
Stay the heck away from Jenkins when it come the Thuc consecrations as he has an INCREDIBLE bias which is not based on reality. He is going to have to answer for his actions. And keep potential converts away from Father Jenkins as well. It appears that soul-saving is not his first priority, a rather sad comment in regards to a Priest.
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What is insane is how the sedevacantsists white wash Abp. Thuc. Fr. Cekada to this day is still conjuring up new reasons for dismissing any charges(appreciating "Thuc's egalitarianism"). New comers to tradition need to be aware of this.
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Elizabeth - you are deceitful. The cmri brought their founder to court and sued him. That was only after they were compromised for following a psuedo pope sɛҳuąƖly abusive druggy cult leader. Watch the what catholics believe episode on apb. Lefebvre. In it they say nothing but good things about his character.
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Who needs a pope when you can condem fellow catholics and offer no solution to "their problem" that you have created in your own mind. Trads are tired of beating a dead horse
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Elizabeth - you are deceitful. The cmri brought their founder to court and sued him. That was only after they were compromised for following a psuedo pope sɛҳuąƖly abusive druggy cult leader. Watch the what catholics believe episode on apb. Lefebvre. In it they say nothing but good things about his character.
Prove my deceit, PG. (but you can't) More accurately, I know first hand quite a bit more than I have written about the sspv. Are you 100% morally certain that there are SSPV clergy who have no criminal traits/habits?
Nobody denies how horrible the Schuckhardt years were. Schuckhardt was not answerable to anyone. Well guess what, neither is Jenkins; Bishop Santay told me so personally.
They reformed. Jenkins says that is insufficient. He states they are not Catholics. Anybody who has "tainted" himself with Thuc line Sacraments may not receive Communion. In fact people whom they dislike are denied Communion.
Spends years weaving this guilt by association myth. All of those Baptised lay Catholics are not really Catholic because they are tainted by Schuckhardt.
People like you and I believe[d] this rubbish, because we love our priests, because we want to be Catholic in a world falling apart at the seams, because we have been burned by the apostasy and corruption in the N.O. It might never occur to us that priests who are so careful in offering Masses admired for their decorum might not be at all so careful in other important areas of Catholic life.
SSPV offers the "purest" sacraments in the whole wide world. In fact, they have invented a sacrament shortage, and only those in their personal opinion who are worthy are allowed to have them. This is not to say that some slip over to Thuc line clergy, but they have special privileges.
Yes, Jenkins has good things to say about Abp. Lefebvre, but he was part of the group who stole very valuable property from the Archbishop, and sued him. Wouldn't actions be speaking louder than words in this case? Did they bother to tell you that it is unlawful for priests to sue their superiors?
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Over the past 6 months or so, I have been listening to many of the sermons/conferences posted on the TraditionalCatholicSermons website, they are a great resource and I can most days listen to them at work. I have since then accuмulated several hundred hours of the sermons and Fatima conferences of the CMRI (plus many others). I have found the homilies of the CMRI priests to be consistently excellent. Very solid Catholic sermons done always in charity. They also explain their position on the crisis very consistently and clearly. They strike me as very good, intelligent and well trained priests. Also bishop Pivarunas' talks at the Fatima conferences are always excellent as well. I am hoping to attend this years Fatima conference in Spokane and meet some of the clergy and laity of the CMRI in person.
Even though I attend a SSPX chapel, I like the CMRI. I would never hesitate to go to them for the sacraments and Catholic preaching.
Luke
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What is insane is how the sedevacantsists white wash Abp. Thuc. Fr. Cekada to this day is still conjuring up new reasons for dismissing any charges(appreciating "Thuc's egalitarianism"). New comers to tradition need to be aware of this.
Newcomers, old-timers alike, need to know what a dangerous situation they have chosen if they think the SSPV cult is safer than their current chapel or parish.
I hope I may be forgiven for observing that you seem to also believe that a crusade against Archbishop Thuc is necessary in order to be a Catholic properly disposed to receive Holy Communion.
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What is insane is how the sedevacantsists white wash Abp. Thuc. Fr. Cekada to this day is still conjuring up new reasons for dismissing any charges(appreciating "Thuc's egalitarianism"). New comers to tradition need to be aware of this.
Newcomers, old-timers alike, need to know what a dangerous situation they have chosen if they think the SSPV cult is safer than their current chapel or parish.
I hope I may be forgiven for observing that you seem to also believe that a crusade against Archbishop Thuc is necessary in order to be a Catholic properly disposed to receive Holy Communion.
Elizabeth,
You are doing a great service and a work of charity to innocent Catholics by warning them about this cult. SSPV needs to be publicly denounced for their schismatic crimes against the unity of the Church.
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What is insane is how the sedevacantsists white wash Abp. Thuc. Fr. Cekada to this day is still conjuring up new reasons for dismissing any charges(appreciating "Thuc's egalitarianism"). New comers to tradition need to be aware of this.
Newcomers, old-timers alike, need to know what a dangerous situation they have chosen if they think the SSPV cult is safer than their current chapel or parish.
I hope I may be forgiven for observing that you seem to also believe that a crusade against Archbishop Thuc is necessary in order to be a Catholic properly disposed to receive Holy Communion.
Elizabeth,
You are doing a great service and a work of charity to innocent Catholics by warning them about this cult. SSPV needs to be publicly denounced for their schismatic crimes against the unity of the Church.
Yes, for that and their denial of EENS; they have gone so far as to refuse a so-called "Feeneyite" the Last Sacraments. Yet Bishop Mendez's secretary was an open "Feeneyite" and they had absolutely no problem with her.
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What is insane is how the sedevacantsists white wash Abp. Thuc. Fr. Cekada to this day is still conjuring up new reasons for dismissing any charges(appreciating "Thuc's egalitarianism"). New comers to tradition need to be aware of this.
Newcomers, old-timers alike, need to know what a dangerous situation they have chosen if they think the SSPV cult is safer than their current chapel or parish.
I hope I may be forgiven for observing that you seem to also believe that a crusade against Archbishop Thuc is necessary in order to be a Catholic properly disposed to receive Holy Communion.
Elizabeth,
You are doing a great service and a work of charity to innocent Catholics by warning them about this cult. SSPV needs to be publicly denounced for their schismatic crimes against the unity of the Church.
Yes, for that and their denial of EENS; they have gone so far as to refuse a so-called "Feeneyite" the Last Sacraments. Yet Bishop Mendez's secretary was an open "Feeneyite" and they had absolutely no problem with her.
Their defense of EENS which includes Baptism of Desire is one of their good points, and I would never criticize them on that.
Regarding the denial of the last sacraments, most Feeneyites I know are not the brightest bulbs, and are ignorant of the fact that they are heretics. The priest should be very cautious before denying them sacraments. Pertinacity must be clear and evident that they understand that they are adhering to heresy.
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What is insane is how the sedevacantsists white wash Abp. Thuc. Fr. Cekada to this day is still conjuring up new reasons for dismissing any charges(appreciating "Thuc's egalitarianism"). New comers to tradition need to be aware of this.
Newcomers, old-timers alike, need to know what a dangerous situation they have chosen if they think the SSPV cult is safer than their current chapel or parish.
I hope I may be forgiven for observing that you seem to also believe that a crusade against Archbishop Thuc is necessary in order to be a Catholic properly disposed to receive Holy Communion.
Elizabeth,
You are doing a great service and a work of charity to innocent Catholics by warning them about this cult. SSPV needs to be publicly denounced for their schismatic crimes against the unity of the Church.
Yes, for that and their denial of EENS; they have gone so far as to refuse a so-called "Feeneyite" the Last Sacraments. Yet Bishop Mendez's secretary was an open "Feeneyite" and they had absolutely no problem with her.
Their defense of EENS which includes Baptism of Desire is one of their good points, and I would never criticize them on that.
Regarding the denial of the last sacraments, most Feeneyites I know are not the brightest bulbs, and are ignorant of the fact that they are heretics. The priest should be very cautious before denying them sacraments. Pertinacity must be clear and evident that they understand that they are adhering to heresy.
Also are the Feeneyites going to be handing out pamphlets to the parishioners indoctrinating them in their heresies? If so they would not be even welcome in my chapel. But if I were a priest, apart from the above mentioned case, I would not deny them the Sacraments during these confusing times.
If real publicly known feeneyites were scandalizing my parishioners merely by receiving the Sacraments I would have to look into that as well.
Anyone know the best way to handle such a situation?
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What is insane is how the sedevacantsists white wash Abp. Thuc. Fr. Cekada to this day is still conjuring up new reasons for dismissing any charges(appreciating "Thuc's egalitarianism"). New comers to tradition need to be aware of this.
Again it is not about "whitewashing" it is whether the consecrations were valid or not.
The case is closed. You can add all the emotional jargon to it you want but it will not change the facts which is all we are concerned about here.
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Elizabeth - you are deceitful. The cmri brought their founder to court and sued him. That was only after they were compromised for following a psuedo pope sɛҳuąƖly abusive druggy cult leader. Watch the what catholics believe episode on apb. Lefebvre. In it they say nothing but good things about his character.
I have never known Elizabeth to be deceitful. You imply that she is knowingly dishonest. I dispute that strongly. I have seen how she conducts herself over several years here and on the Bellarmine forums and I would describe her as an honest woman who appears to be genuinely humble and a woman of integrity.
If the Feeneyites had her humility, integrity, sincerity and knowledge they would not be a black blotch on this forum.
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LoT,
If the Feeneyites had her humility, integrity, sincerity and knowledge they would not be a black blotch on this forum.
:roll-laugh1:
..........you know....pots, kettles, black, and all of that............ :roll-laugh2:
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Yes, for that and their denial of EENS; they have gone so far as to refuse a so-called "Feeneyite" the Last Sacraments. Yet Bishop Mendez's secretary was an open "Feeneyite" and they had absolutely no problem with her.
Yep. Bishop Mendez's secretary was a means to an end, and an example of the way the SSPV enforce the rules they invented.
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Let me pull and ambrose on you here. "I would like to see a hand written statement by Bp. Mendez's secretary where she states that she is a feeneyite".
This Feeneyite EENS controversy needs be dealt with very carefully. I am in no way a feeneyite, but it is an error to believe that one can be saved "in" other religions. Today, unfortunately, I think that I could be mistaken for a feeneyite because I blow the EENS trumpet. So, I have reservations on this subject, along with claims that are made.
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Let me pull and ambrose on you here. "I would like to see a hand written statement by Bp. Mendez's secretary where she states that she is a feeneyite".
This Feeneyite EENS controversy needs be dealt with very carefully. I am in no way a feeneyite, but it is an error to believe that one can be saved "in" other religions. Today, unfortunately, I think that I could be mistaken for a feeneyite because I blow the EENS trumpet. So, I have reservations on this subject, along with claims that are made.
There is no salvation outside the Church, ever. There is no salvation through false religions, ever.
There is Baptism of Desire, to deny that is heresy.
There is no contradiction between these teachings as the Feeneyites pretend.
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Ambrose - Don't use my name or my posts in vain. When I say reservations, I mean reservations about whether Bp. Mendez's secretary was really a "feeneyite". I have no reservations about BoD. There are a lot of feeneyites who claim not to be feeneyits by what they say and what they will not say under examination. These are the types of cases that need to be reserved to a competent authority. These disguised feeneyites should be refused communion, but the final verdict doesn't come from what a priest does or doesn't do.
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Ambrose - Don't use my name or my posts in vain. When I say reservations, I mean reservations about whether Bp. Mendez's secretary was really a "feeneyite". I have no reservations about BoD. There are a lot of feeneyites who claim not to be feeneyits by what they say and what they will not say under examination. These are the types of cases that need to be reserved to a competent authority. These disguised feeneyites should be refused communion, but the final verdict doesn't come from what a priest does or doesn't do.
I was making a general statement from thoughts on your post, and it did not mention your name.
I try not to talk to you ever since I learned that you are a schismatic, having cut yourself off from Pope Pius XII in 1951.
Generally, I try to avoid both heretics and schismatics.
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The CMRI never talks like this. They are to busy caring about people's salvation, making endless sacrifices driving all across the country, flying to other countries, visiting the sick and dying, operating countless schools to educate future Catholics, etc,
As a non Sedevecantist, who has attended CMRI services for about the past year, more or less, I can attest to this statement.
The issue at hand, the OP, stinks of malice.
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s2srea - the silence is deafening. And, my OP was a "response"(not malice) from earlier discussions. It is there to read.
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...... These disguised feeneyites should be refused communion, but the final verdict doesn't come from what a priest does or doesn't do.
This last sentence is difficult to understand.
Has anyone else noticed how ironic it is that SSPV refuses the sacraments to Thuc line associated laypeople and "Feeneyites",
yet they are saying in effect, no salvation outside of SSPV?
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elizabeth - you sow cockle.
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The CMRI never talks like this. They are to busy caring about people's salvation, making endless sacrifices driving all across the country, flying to other countries, visiting the sick and dying, operating countless schools to educate future Catholics, etc,
As a non Sedevecantist, who has attended CMRI services for about the past year, more or less, I can attest to this statement.
The issue at hand, the OP, stinks of malice.
That's what watching 4 hours of the Jenkins-Cekada "debate" or listening to their radio and TV shows will do.
I think they come closest to the Mormons, overall. Their set-up is remarkably similar in many ways, along with the mindset of being superior.
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elizabeth - you sow cockle.
:laugh1: Thanks, that made my day.
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LoT,
If the Feeneyites had her humility, integrity, sincerity and knowledge they would not be a black blotch on this forum.
:roll-laugh1:
..........you know....pots, kettles, black, and all of that............ :roll-laugh2:
If I were a comedian I would make sure you were in my audience.
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s2srea - the silence is deafening. And, my OP was a "response"(not malice) from earlier discussions. It is there to read.
The consecrations are valid, that is the bottom line. The SSPV denies either for self-serving purposes or inexcusable ignorance for clergy. No silence. Just the facts. How many times should this be repeated for you to avoid insinuating that the point of your thread is meritorious in some way?
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LoT,
If the Feeneyites had her humility, integrity, sincerity and knowledge they would not be a black blotch on this forum.
:roll-laugh1:
..........you know....pots, kettles, black, and all of that............ :roll-laugh2:
If I were a comedian I would make sure you were in my audience.
Oh! but, you are,..........and...........I am..... :roll-laugh1:
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The CMRI never talks like this. They are to busy caring about people's salvation, making endless sacrifices driving all across the country, flying to other countries, visiting the sick and dying, operating countless schools to educate future Catholics, etc,
As a non Sedevecantist, who has attended CMRI services for about the past year, more or less, I can attest to this statement.
The issue at hand, the OP, stinks of malice.
That's what watching 4 hours of the Jenkins-Cekada "debate" or listening to their radio and TV shows will do.
I think they come closest to the Mormons, overall. Their set-up is remarkably similar in many ways, along with the mindset of being superior.
ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is a sin against God.
Any priest who has temptations or has committed this act should be defrocked
And excommunicated. They are secretly pushing to make it hate crime and discrimination to remove them from their black mass.
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LoT,
If the Feeneyites had her humility, integrity, sincerity and knowledge they would not be a black blotch on this forum.
:roll-laugh1:
..........you know....pots, kettles, black, and all of that............ :roll-laugh2:
If I were a comedian I would make sure you were in my audience.
Oh! but, you are,..........and...........I am..... :roll-laugh1:
Did you hear the one about the blogger who extolled a cult for castigating a group of the holiest and hard working group of clergy out there?
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LoT,
If the Feeneyites had her humility, integrity, sincerity and knowledge they would not be a black blotch on this forum.
:roll-laugh1:
..........you know....pots, kettles, black, and all of that............ :roll-laugh2:
If I were a comedian I would make sure you were in my audience.
Oh! but, you are,..........and...........I am..... :roll-laugh1:
Did you hear the one about the blogger who extolled a cult for castigating a group of the holiest and hard working group of clergy out there?
I have heard that one, but it was not funny.
I wonder if the demons and damned can laugh, because they are the ones who mock and hate all that is good including holy and humble priests. Those that hate these priests have something in common with demons, very scary.
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ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is a sin against God.
Any priest who has temptations or has committed this act should be defrocked
And excommunicated. They are secretly pushing to make it hate crime and discrimination to remove them from their black mass.
We all agree! Doctors of the Church state this very strongly.(except for the N.O. wasn't invented at the time of their earthly lives)
This is why the CMRI reformed themselves. The SSPX clergy say that laypeople who take CMRI sacraments, and people who hold Fr. Feeney's position are not Catholic and may not be baptised, receive Communion, sponsor a Confirmand, etc.
But this does not give them any Catholic authority to deny sacraments for lay people who assist at CMRI Masses, or expel people they don't like.
Further, they have painted themselves into a corner. Any grave problems they have cannot ever be admitted to, let alone dealt with.
They record and publish hundreds of hours of attacks against one man, Archbishop Thuc, instead of correcting their own serious issues.