1.  Any man I deem a heretic is a heretic whether you agree or not.

2.  If you disagree with me that such a man is a heretic, then I will consider you a heretic and outside of the Church.

3.  I consider St. Robert Bellarmine to be a heretic.

4.  Ergo, any man since St. Robert Bellarmine's time who did not consider him a heretic is a heretic himself and outside of the Church.

5.  Ergo, the Church has ceased to exist since at least the time of St. Robert Bellarmine since no man has considered him a heretic, thus making everyone an ipso facto heretic.

You are so stupid, it's laughable.  Let me ask you a question.  Why are you posting here inside the forum "Crisis in the Church"?  Did YOU deem there to be a crisis, or did the Vatican officially announce this crisis?

The reality you fail to realize is that all of our salvations depend on us learning the Catholic Faith sufficiently well to know true popes from antipopes.  Yes, you, me, and everybody on this board must deem who are true versus false popes.

You are so stupid, it's laughable.  Let me ask you a question.  Why are you posting here inside the forum "Crisis in the Church"?  Did YOU deem there to be a crisis, or did the Vatican officially announce this crisis?

The reality you fail to realize is that all of our salvations depend on us learning the Catholic Faith sufficiently well to know true popes from antipopes.  Yes, you, me, and everybody on this board must deem who are true versus false popes.

You didn't respond to the syllogism.  If you need help understanding it, let me know and I can walk you through it, I know it's tough for you to understand the english language sometimes.

You are so stupid, it's laughable.  Let me ask you a question.  Why are you posting here inside the forum "Crisis in the Church"?  Did YOU deem there to be a crisis, or did the Vatican officially announce this crisis?

The reality you fail to realize is that all of our salvations depend on us learning the Catholic Faith sufficiently well to know true popes from antipopes.  Yes, you, me, and everybody on this board must deem who are true versus false popes.

Are you actually serious?  Because I'd say the same thing, to shoot holes in your premise. You ACTUALLY BELIEVE the absurd conclusion your beliefs leads to? You believe the "reductio ad absurdam" that would normally refute your position? Give me a break.

A kind old grandmother must be a master of theology and philosophy -- she must somehow become learned in these disciplines in between advising her children, baking, keeping house, etc. In fact, many men and women would never be capable of such high-end intellectual pursuits.

You couldn't do a better job of pointing out the ridiculous nature of your beliefs -- you're taking your own position ad absurdam for me!

In other words, that would be MY argument -- everyone can't be expected to be a theologian. God clearly doesn't demand or ask that of everyone. Therefore, there is something wrong with your dogmatic sedevacantist hypothesis.

Dogmatic sedevacantists have more than a few screws loose. If anyone is confused as to what constitutes a dogmatic sedevacantist -- well, FKP is one of them.

Matthew

Another thing that I haven't covered is that the dogmatic sedevacantists elevate Bellarmine's papa haereticus manifestus ipso facto depositus to the level of dogma.  There are in fact quite an array of credible theologians who disagree with this, with some holding that even a heretic would continue on as pope, others stating that the pope would have to be deposed by the Church, others (I am of this camp) that the Church cannot effect deposition but would have to declare the heresy.

Another thing that I haven't covered is that the dogmatic sedevacantists elevate Bellarmine's papa haereticus manifestus ipso facto depositus to the level of dogma.  There are in fact quite an array of credible theologians who disagree with this, with some holding that even a heretic would continue on as pope, others stating that the pope would have to be deposed by the Church, others (I am of this camp) that the Church cannot effect deposition but would have to declare the heresy.

Pope Eugene IV's infallible decree that heretics are outside the Catholic Church destroys your position.  Simply, a heretic is not a Catholic, and the pope must be a Catholic.

Pope Eugene IV's infallible decree that heretics are outside the Catholic Church destroys your position.  Simply, a heretic is not a Catholic, and the pope must be a Catholic.

That too.

What's really sad is that some of the stuff coming from CM and fk actually sound like a satirical parody that I would write in order to point out the logical absurdity of their position -- just as I sometimes wonder whether Pope Augustine is just on the forum to yank on people's chains by way of parody.