Author Topic: denzinger 2232 casti connubii section meaning (Read 4574 times)

Ladislaus · « **Reply #5 on:** August 01, 2015, 03:13:08 PM »

Our Lady and St. Joseph were truly married but remained chaste. What this is saying is that their marriage was no less a marriage.

You're failing to distinguish between the ends of marriage vs. the ends of the marital act.

No NFP !

Jaynek · « **Reply #6 on:** August 01, 2015, 04:06:58 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Our Lady and St. Joseph were truly married but remained chaste. What this is saying is that their marriage was no less a marriage.

You're failing to distinguish between the ends of marriage vs. the ends of the marital act.

No NFP !

I am pretty sure that the Church teaches that procreation of children is the primary end of marriage (not simply the marriage act). Isn't that what it is saying earlier in the docuмent?

Quote

11. Thus amongst the blessings of marriage, the child holds the first place. And indeed the Creator of the human race Himself, Who in His goodness wishes to use men as His helpers in the propagation of life, taught this when, instituting marriage in Paradise, He said to our first parents, and through them to all future spouses: "Increase and multiply, and fill the earth."[12] As St. Augustine admirably deduces from the words of the holy Apostle Saint Paul to Timothy[13] when he says: "The Apostle himself is therefore a witness that marriage is for the sake of generation: 'I wish,' he says, 'young girls to marry.' And, as if someone said to him, 'Why?,' he immediately adds: 'To bear children, to be mothers of families'."[14]

Nadir · « **Reply #7 on:** August 01, 2015, 04:52:34 PM »

Quote from: Jaynek

Quote from: Nadir
Quote from: + PG +
What exactly is this saying? This is under the section speaking about the blessings of marriage. And, this is under blessing number two, which is the "blessing of faith".

PG, I am not familiar with Denzinger. I have searched the Encyclical Casti Conubii http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_p-xi_enc_31121930_casti-connubii.html and have been unable to find this quote, so I presume it is commentary on the encyclical,which is arranged in 130 paragraphs with no other sections or headings.

I found it at the link you gave. It was paragraph 24:
Quote
24. This mutual molding of husband and wife, this determined effort to perfect each other, can in a very real sense, as the Roman Catechism teaches, be said to be the chief reason and purpose of matrimony, provided matrimony be looked at not in the restricted sense as instituted for the proper conception and education of the child, but more widely as the blending of life as a whole and the mutual interchange and sharing thereof.

I came across this other day and I was wondering about it too. How do we reconcile it with the teaching that procreation of children is the primary end of marriage?

Good find, Jayne, but not exactly what PG quoted, which was actually from Denzinger.
The quote from Casti Conubii which you have quoted is somewhat clearer, but the wording has been changed in Denzinger (for what reason I do not know).

It seems to be saying that the most important thing in this life is for spouses to work to achieve the highest good which, of course, is to get each other to Heaven.

Of course, in most cases if we follow nature and God's Law, we will bear and raise children, also for Heaven, but there are some couples who are not blessed with children. In that case, we can say that, in all cases, whether there are children or not, all Marriages are purposed for the achievement of Heaven

Jaynek · « **Reply #8 on:** August 01, 2015, 05:55:48 PM »

Quote from: Nadir

Good find, Jayne, but not exactly what PG quoted, which was actually from Denzinger.
The quote from Casti Conubii which you have quoted is somewhat clearer, but the wording has been changed in Denzinger (for what reason I do not know).

They are probably different translations from the same Latin original

Jaynek · « **Reply #9 on:** August 01, 2015, 06:16:21 PM »

This is the Latin:

Quote

Haec mutua coniugum interior conformatio, hoc assiduum sese invicem perficiendi studium, verissima quadam ratione, ut docet Catechismus Romanus (29), etiam primaria matrimonii causa et ratio dici potest, si tamen matrimonium non pressius ut institutum ad prolem rite procreandam educandamque, sed latius ut totius vitae communio, consuetudo, societas accipiatur.