Author Topic: Democracy is rooted in Christian thought, Pope reminds theologians  (Read 2371 times)

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Offline stevusmagnus

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  • Democracy is rooted in Christian thought, Pope reminds theologians

    Catholic World News
    December 03, 2010

    The freedom of modern democratic societies would be impossible without the contribution of Christian thought, Pope Benedict XVI argued in a December 3 address to the International Theological Commission.

    The fundamental belief in human equality, the Pope said, is “the daughter of evangelical monotheism.” He also said that the quest for world peace is another outgrowth of the Christian heritage. “A God Who was not perceived as a source of forgiveness could not be a light along the path of peace,” the Pontiff said.

    However, the Pope continued, a society that does not understand the philosophical foundations of its own basic beliefs is in jeopardy. Today, he said, “it is particularly important to show that the fruit dies if the roots of the tree are cut.” Pope Benedict continued:

    There is, in fact, no justice without truth, and justice cannot fully develop if is horizon is limited by the material world. For us as Christians, social solidarity always has an eternal perspective.

    The Holy Father went on to tell the members of the International Theological Commission—who are in Rome for their plenary meeting—that the goal of theology goes beyond serving society, to probe the eternal truths of an active faith. He cited Blessed John Henry Newman as an example of the theologian who recognizes that the ultimate goal of his study is the pursuit of sanctity.

    Source(s):

    Pope Benedict XVI: notion of equality is Church's gift to the world (Vatican Radio) http://www.oecumene.radiovaticana.org/en1/Articolo.asp?c=444096

    •Theology Must Be Nourished by Dialogue with the Logos (VIS) http://visnews-en.blogspot.com/2010/12/theology-must-be-nourished-by-dialogue.html

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Democracy is rooted in Christian thought, Pope reminds theologians
    « Reply #1 on: December 03, 2010, 12:13:51 PM »
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  • As the Dog Poet once wrote:

    "There must be something I can do, if not for you then for myself, which would remove from me the need to preach to the choir while the congregation prays for the possibility to be made deaf and dumb and blind to any chance of being affected in ways that might prove beneficial to them."
    + Vincit veritas +


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Democracy is rooted in Christian thought, Pope reminds theologians
    « Reply #2 on: December 03, 2010, 12:15:44 PM »
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  • Quote
    The fundamental belief in human equality, the Pope said, is “the daughter of evangelical monotheism.”

     :scratchchin:
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline albert cipriani

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    Democracy is rooted in Christian thought, Pope reminds theologians
    « Reply #3 on: December 03, 2010, 04:53:02 PM »
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  • If Catholic thinking is what has given rise to democracy, what do we make of the following two democratic articles that the Church's Syllabus of Errors condemned:

    63. It is lawful to refuse obedience to legitimate princes, and even to rebel against them. -- Encyclical "Qui pluribus," Nov. 9, 1864; Allocution "Quibusque vestrum," Oct. 4, 1847; "Noscitis et Nobiscum," Dec. 8, 1849; Apostolic Letter "Cum Catholica."

    64. The violation of any solemn oath, as well as any wicked and flagitious action repugnant to the eternal law, is not only not blamable but is altogether lawful and worthy of the highest praise when done through love of country. -- Allocution "Quibus quantisque," April 20, 1849.


    Article 65 condemns rebellion against the government.  Yet all democracies were born in and are replenished by the blood of rebellion agains the "legitimate princes" of the day.

    Article 66 condemns the violation of solemn oaths.  Many Nazis refused to rebel against Hitler because they went along with this teaching, having sworn a solemn oath to their Fuhrer, they felt religious-bound to undemocratically continue to do his bidding.

    -- Sincerely, Albert the Traditional Catholic

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Democracy is rooted in Christian thought, Pope reminds theologians
    « Reply #4 on: December 03, 2010, 05:10:59 PM »
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  • Don't ask difficult questions, albert...

    LOL :laugh2:

    Welcome to the site :)
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    Offline albert cipriani

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    Democracy is rooted in Christian thought, Pope reminds theologians
    « Reply #5 on: December 03, 2010, 05:19:42 PM »
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  • Hi GV,
    I'm troubled.  

    It's getting harder and harder for me to square the circles my mind is forced into.  Even infallibility is becoming hard for me to square in the advent of discovering so many apparent contradictions.  For example, some say the Syllabus of Errors isn't infallible teaching.  Others that it is.  Our current pope points to the VCII teachings as a "counter-Syllabus," as if one infallible statement could be undone by another.  

    My default position these days is to only grant the Church her infallibility in matters of Faith.  In matters of morals, she seems all over the map.  Like I say: I'm troubled. -- Albert Cipriani the Traditional Catholic

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Democracy is rooted in Christian thought, Pope reminds theologians
    « Reply #6 on: December 03, 2010, 05:25:28 PM »
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  • I can and do understand.  This site may prove to be of great help, but you are also, should you feel inclined, welcome to email  me at gladius_veritatis@yahoo.com.  I cannot promise anything, but I am happy to assist however I am able.

    Godspeed :)
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline albert cipriani

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    Democracy is rooted in Christian thought, Pope reminds theologians
    « Reply #7 on: December 03, 2010, 06:00:05 PM »
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  • That's very generous of you, GV.  I've sent you my address.  All things being equal, I'd rather wrestle with these issues in public for the benefit of all other troubled Catholics here.  Perhaps I'll start a thread. -- Albert


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Democracy is rooted in Christian thought, Pope reminds theologians
    « Reply #8 on: December 03, 2010, 06:03:22 PM »
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  • What moral teachings are all over the map?

    As for faith the syllabus is consistent with everything up to VCII.

    VCII proclaimed nothing infallible at all. Therefore no contradiction.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Democracy is rooted in Christian thought, Pope reminds theologians
    « Reply #9 on: December 03, 2010, 06:18:03 PM »
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  • Secular Republics are evil systems of government.

    Offline albert cipriani

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    Democracy is rooted in Christian thought, Pope reminds theologians
    « Reply #10 on: December 04, 2010, 01:12:14 AM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    What moral teachings are all over the map?


    Two biggies: usury and marriage.  

    The former was an excommunicate-able offense for centuries.  It was quietly dropped from mention in the 1900 Code of Cannon Law just when it was needed the most, just before the Federal Reserve was instituted to make usury ubiquitous, 100 years before the results of the Fed in concert with corrupt internationalists have brought the entire world to its financial knees.

    The latter was forbidden even kings, King Henry the VIII to be specific, who insisted that his marriage be annulled.  The pope lost England to Anglicanism rather than compromise the unviable moral principle that marriage is for life.  Prior to VCII, something like 3 annulments were granted to Americans.  After VCII something like 40,000 annulments are granted annually.

    stevusmagnus wrote: “As for faith the syllabus is consistent with everything up to VCII. VCII proclaimed nothing infallible at all. Therefore no contradiction.”

    Right.  That’s how I square that circle.  But there’s a larger square that doesn’t square so easily.  

    The current hierarchy is in the eyes of the world the current Catholic Church.  Does God expect people born and raised under its auspices to believe in Church infallibility when the Church current hierarchy contradicts the former Church hierarchy?  That’s like expecting a child to believe in the truthfulness of their parents when on Mondays they said 2 + 2 = 4 and on Tuesday they said 2 + 2 = 22.  – Albert Cipriani


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Democracy is rooted in Christian thought, Pope reminds theologians
    « Reply #11 on: December 06, 2010, 11:46:15 AM »
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  • I'm not familiar enough on the usury topic to offer much advice there, so I will defer to others there.

    With marriage, the teaching hasn't changed. Modern members of marriage tribunals have interpreted certain provisions so broadly and ridiculously that they basically do whatever they want to.

    It is basically a crisis of complete abdication of Church authority to fulfill any of their Divne duties.

    As for the confusion did not Christ predict a great apostasy and that even the elect would be deceived if it were possible?

    Offline Belloc

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    Democracy is rooted in Christian thought, Pope reminds theologians
    « Reply #12 on: December 06, 2010, 11:52:36 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Secular Republics are evil systems of government.


    trueand have been condemned, but  we are talking about a man that approves of France 1789, destroying bastion (seen by him as ghetto walls) and no promotion of SRC nor CSO,etc....perfect for the NWO...
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Democracy is rooted in Christian thought, Pope reminds theologians
    « Reply #13 on: December 06, 2010, 12:02:59 PM »
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  • Quote
    With marriage, the teaching hasn't changed.


    The grounds for annulments have been changed in Canon Law to allow ipso facto divorce.  "Lack of maturity" is a way of saying a marriage was a youthful indiscretion that didn't work out - ergo it didn't exist.

    The SSPX doesn't just challenge the good faith of the annulment tribunals, they question the change in canon law.

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Democracy is rooted in Christian thought, Pope reminds theologians
    « Reply #14 on: December 06, 2010, 12:10:04 PM »
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  • Ok, in that case the infallible Church teaching of the indissolubility of marriage has not changed.

    The Church's Canon Law has changed but this doesn't affect infallibility.

     

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