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Author Topic: Four Varieties of Persons One Finds at SSPX Chapels in 2023  (Read 1165 times)

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Offline ElwinRansom1970

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Four Varieties of Persons One Finds at SSPX Chapels in 2023
« on: October 04, 2023, 07:15:17 AM »
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    • I have on more than one occasion outed myself on CathInfo as a sede: sedeprivationist in regards to Montini, Luciani, Wojtyła, and Ratzinger; sedevacantist in regards to Bergoglio.

    I have attended a SSPX chapel for 40 years and am a former STAS seminarian. I am SSPX Third Order. The last 2 priests to staff the local SSPX chapel knew me to be sede. I told them so directly when first meeting each priest, who are both Le Roux-formed guys unlike us older fellows who were formed by +Williamson.

    I write all this as background to give context and form to what I have observed the past few years, namely that I have come to recognise and identity four varieties of persons to be found at an SSPX Mass centre in 2023:

    1) Olde-Timey Palaeo-Trads (my group): People who have been around for decades. Many knew the Church before it was hit by the V2 rocket. Most came to the SSPX as refugees from the Novus Ordo in the 1970s/80s. They know Tradition and what the stakes are in this war.

    2) Neo-SSPXers: People who came to the SSPX during the period when Fellay was Superior General. They tend not to care about anything other than Menzingen Inc. talking points and have a limited grasp of the history of Traddieland.

    3) Legacy Trads: People, usually Zoomers and Millennials, who have grown up in the SSPX since birth. Because if their age, they have only known Fellay's neo-SSPX. They shared many attitudes with the Neo-SSPXers above and share much in common with them, but have never had direct exposure to the Novus Ordo apart from weddings and funerals.

    4) COVID Refugees: Persons who began attending the SSPX during the COVID lockdowns because they had been deprived of Mass and sacraments in their Novus Ordo or Indult parishes. They are conservative Conciliarists with a predilection for classical liturgy. Their interest in Tradition is superficial and tends to fall in with the neo-SSPX since that is the only viewpoint to which they have been exposed in Traddieland.

    I am intetested to hear critiques, nuances, additions, anecdotes related to these observations!
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    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Five Varieties of Persons One Finds at SSPX Chapels in 2023
    « Reply #1 on: October 04, 2023, 07:42:40 AM »
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    • Quote from: ElwinRansom1970 on October 04, 2023, 07:15:17 AM
    I have on more than one occasion outed myself on CathInfo as a sede: sedeprivationist in regards to Montini, Luciani, Wojtyła, and Ratzinger; sedevacantist in regards to Bergoglio.

    I have attended a SSPX chapel for 40 years and am a former STAS seminarian. I am SSPX Third Order. The last 2 priests to staff the local SSPX chapel knew me to be sede. I told them so directly when first meeting each priest, who are both Le Roux-formed guys unlike us older fellows who were formed by +Williamson.

    I write all this as background to give context and form to what I have observed the past few years, namely that I have come to recognise and identity four varieties of persons to be found at an SSPX Mass centre in 2023:

    1) Olde-Timey Palaeo-Trads (my group): People who have been around for decades. Many knew the Church before it was hit by the V2 rocket. Most came to the SSPX as refugees from the Novus Ordo in the 1970s/80s. They know Tradition and what the stakes are in this war.

    2) Neo-SSPXers: People who came to the SSPX during the period when Fellay was Superior General. They tend not to care about anything other than Menzingen Inc. talking points and have a limited grasp of the history of Traddieland.

    3) Legacy Trads: People, usually Zoomers and Millennials, who have grown up in the SSPX since birth. Because if their age, they have only known Fellay's neo-SSPX. They shared many attitudes with the Neo-SSPXers above and share much in common with them, but have never had direct exposure to the Novus Ordo apart from weddings and funerals.

    4) COVID Refugees: Persons who began attending the SSPX during the COVID lockdowns because they had been deprived of Mass and sacraments in their Novus Ordo or Indult parishes. They are conservative Conciliarists with a predilection for classical liturgy. Their interest in Tradition is superficial and tends to fall in with the neo-SSPX since that is the only viewpoint to which they have been exposed in Traddieland.

    I am intetested to hear critiques, nuances, additions, anecdotes related to these observations!
    I dont fit any of these. I only found tradition after covid (fake modern 2 time a year catholic before) and the SSPX is my only option. I hold sedevacante, and am against BoD/BoB/II, hold geocentrism and young earth.
    I believe that the new rite for bishops isn't valid due to positive doubt, the new rite for priests isn't valid as it has the same problems as the anglican rite which is invalid and I don't want to have a deceitful balance so I must judge it by the same standard.
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    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Four Varieties of Persons One Finds at SSPX Chapels in 2023
    « Reply #2 on: October 04, 2023, 08:01:33 AM »
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    • Quote from: ElwinRansom1970 on October 04, 2023, 07:15:17 AM


    1) Olde-Timey Palaeo-Trads (my group): People who have been around for decades. Many knew the Church before it was hit by the V2 rocket. Most came to the SSPX as refugees from the Novus Ordo in the 1970s/80s. They know Tradition and what the stakes are in this war.

    2) Neo-SSPXers: People who came to the SSPX during the period when Fellay was Superior General. They tend not to care about anything other than Menzingen Inc. talking points and have a limited grasp of the history of Traddieland.

    There are also those in-between 1 and 2, they group up in the Novus Ordo but fought their way out during the period of Bishop Fellay, they had to learn all about Traddiland and the various issues. Then once they thought all was safe, 2012 comes along and they find themselves sliding back in to the Concilliar Church, so some slept and drifted into position #2, while others woke up and jumped off to Resistance.
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    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Four Varieties of Persons One Finds at SSPX Chapels in 2023
    « Reply #3 on: October 04, 2023, 08:46:52 AM »
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    • None of the above.

    COVID revert who began attending during the lockdowns because, well, that's when the scales fell away from the eyes. Have never been a Conciliarist of any sort except unwittingly and unwillingly in early adolescence, the only available route to what we were told back then was the Sacrament of Confirmation. 

    Default outlook is sedeprivationist, and interest in Tradition (the real, not the smells and bells) draws us to Group 1) in the hopes of somehow making it back to the 0) level group, i.e., long before the notion of Traddieland even had to exist. Still coming to terms with the effects of nearly lifelong exile and, as a result, recognize the current exile for what it is rather than assent to fall in for mere convenience with Group 2) or 3) or 4). 
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    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Four Varieties of Persons One Finds at SSPX Chapels in 2023
    « Reply #4 on: October 04, 2023, 08:54:32 AM »
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    • Everyone feel free to create other categories to identify different types that you recognise.

    And realise that relatively few persons are or can be perfectly-matched stereotypes of the categories that I have identified.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Four Varieties of Persons One Finds at SSPX Chapels in 2023
    « Reply #5 on: October 04, 2023, 09:55:03 AM »
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    • I think it's a solid breakdown, though perhaps I might name them a bit different.

    1) Paleo-/Legacy- Trads (those of us who were around during the heydays of the Novus Ordo, the 70s/80s) and became Traditional Catholics

    2) Cradle Trads (those who group up Traditional Catholic from birth and know little of the Novus Ordo)

    3) Year-of-Mercy/COVID-era Motarian Trads (those who are more FFSP types / Motarians but now find themselves at home with neo-SSPX).  There was some addition of these after Jorge's "Year of Mercy", where he granted jurisdiction to SSPX priests for Confessions, and then another group of them after COVID, as you point out.

    I'm not sure I would put the neo-SSPX Trads into a separate group, since they overlap with Cradle Trads and Motarian Trads.

    But then there's a separate theological alignment, where some Paleo-Trads could have bought into neo-SSPX orientation, some not.  Some Cradle Trads are neo-SSPX mentality, and some are not (maybe depending on who raised them), etc.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Four Varieties of Persons One Finds at SSPX Chapels in 2023
    « Reply #6 on: October 04, 2023, 11:05:56 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 04, 2023, 09:55:03 AM
    But then there's a separate theological alignment, where some Paleo-Trads could have bought into neo-SSPX orientation, some not.  Some Cradle Trads are neo-SSPX mentality, and some are not (maybe depending on who raised them), etc.

    1. As for cradle trads, there could be different generations of them at this point. The earliest pioneers of the Trad movement are Baby Boomers or older, so they are at least grandparent age by now.

    You could have a GenX "cradle trad", a Millennial, a Zoomer, etc. all "born into Tradition".

    2. As for the pioneers going neo-SSPX, that's probably due to having donated to the SSPX for *decades* and feeling like your money is wasted if you leave. You get no "payoff" -- you spend your life building up a chapel materially, and you expect to "retire" and enjoy it -- only to leave it and start over again?
    "YES" I say, if that's what God/the truth wants. But it's hard, humanly speaking, and I appreciate that. But it's still just as cowardly to go along with human nature. We're called to be saints, to work against our lower nature, to be heroic. And all men are inspired by heroes, not cowards -- know what I mean?
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Four Varieties of Persons One Finds at SSPX Chapels in 2023
    « Reply #7 on: October 07, 2023, 02:11:52 AM »
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    • Quote from: ElwinRansom1970 on October 04, 2023, 07:15:17 AM
    4) COVID Refugees: Persons who began attending the SSPX during the COVID lockdowns because they had been deprived of Mass and sacraments in their Novus Ordo or Indult parishes. They are conservative Conciliarists with a predilection for classical liturgy. Their interest in Tradition is superficial and tends to fall in with the neo-SSPX since that is the only viewpoint to which they have been exposed in Traddieland.

    I am intetested to hear critiques, nuances, additions, anecdotes related to these observations!

    The COVID whatever-demic was providential, in that it got people to the TLM who otherwise wouldn't have been there.  Being there for imperfect reasons is better than not being there at all.
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