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Author Topic: Debunking Vigano’s Vote Scare  (Read 6007 times)

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Offline Incredulous

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Debunking Vigano’s Vote Scare
« on: October 31, 2024, 11:07:05 AM »
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    • Interesting that a recent Catholic convert is able to discern & debunk Archbishop Vigano’s Trump endorsement… while the majority of trad Bishops remain silent.

    The Remnant really has no shepherds.

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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Debunking Vigano’s Vote Scare
    « Reply #1 on: October 31, 2024, 11:18:36 AM »
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    • What is his main argument?  That's a 1 hour video.

    The pro-Trump is based on 4 years of facts.  The against-Trump argument is all based on assumptions. 

    Example: 
    Fact:  Trump said he wants to stop migrants.  He's said it over and over. 
    Fact:  Trump built a large portion of the wall, but Congress stopped him from finishing it.

    Those who are 'against' Trump would say "he's lying".  Ok, maybe he is, but it's unproven.  The only thing we know for certain is he took concrete steps to stop migrants.  That can't be denied.

    If you truly believe he's lying, there's nothing anyone can do to prove or disprove a negative.  He could still be lying and you could be right, but we don't know at this point.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Debunking Vigano’s Vote Scare
    « Reply #2 on: October 31, 2024, 11:33:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on October 31, 2024, 11:07:05 AM
    Interesting that a recent Catholic convert is able to discern & debunk Archbishop Vigano’s Trump endorsement… while the majority of trad Bishops remain silent.

    The Remnant really has no shepherds.


    Incredulous:

    Your post says "majority" of Trad Bishops remain silent.  Is there a Trad Bishop who has "debunked" Vigano's position? Although I haven't seen any sedevacantist bishops "debunk" it, it's my understanding that their position is that it is permissible to vote for him, but not an obligation.  Given Vigano's supposed Resistance connections, has a Resistance bishop debunked it?
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    Offline Michelle

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    Re: Debunking Vigano’s Vote Scare
    « Reply #3 on: October 31, 2024, 11:52:49 AM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on October 31, 2024, 11:07:05 AM
    Interesting that a recent Catholic convert is able to discern & debunk Archbishop Vigano’s Trump endorsement… while the majority of trad Bishops remain silent.

    The Remnant really has no shepherds.


    Thanks for posting this.  They articulate the errors very well.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Debunking Vigano’s Vote Scare
    « Reply #4 on: October 31, 2024, 03:23:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 31, 2024, 11:18:36 AM
    What is his main argument?  That's a 1 hour video.

    The pro-Trump is based on 4 years of facts.  The against-Trump argument is all based on assumptions. 

    Example: 
    Fact:  Trump said he wants to stop migrants.  He's said it over and over. 
    Fact:  Trump built a large portion of the wall, but Congress stopped him from finishing it.

    Those who are 'against' Trump would say "he's lying".  Ok, maybe he is, but it's unproven.  The only thing we know for certain is he took concrete steps to stop migrants.  That can't be denied.

    If you truly believe he's lying, there's nothing anyone can do to prove or disprove a negative.  He could still be lying and you could be right, but we don't know at this point.

    Right, sorry for not giving a recap of Archbishop Vigano’s errors in promoting Trump.

    The gentlemen being interviewed is Mr. Will Tucker, a Kentuckian, who converted to Catholicism recently.  The jist of his argument comes out in the first 10 minutes.

    He points out that the Archbishop uses a technique in his letter of layering a series of half-truths about Trump to make his argument.

    Now, on the topic of Trump, if you don’t know he’s part of the cabal by now, you haven’t been studying his speeches.

    Even in the past four months he’s been practicing what is known in masonry as “The Revelation of the Method”, whereby he tells us something sinister and, if the American public fails to protest, or speak up against, it means we are complicit in it, and it empowers the cabal.  

    For example:

    1. Trump gives a speech recently, saying he’s not Christian (even though he’s photographed himself purportedly with a Bible).
     
    In the same speech, he says, “Christians won’t have to vote anymore after this election.”

    That’s a statement with a Kabbalistic “double-meaning”.  It could easily mean Christians will all be dead after he’s in office and implements the pro-zionist plans to eliminate any opposition.

    2. Trump gave another recent speech saying he was for parental notification of children’s sex change operations.  Can you tell me when Trump ever mentioned he was for child transgender mutilations?

    3. Trump gave recent speeches saying he would “crush” American αnтι-ѕємιтєs.  

    We don’t know how “αnтι-ѕємιтє” is defined or what American law he was referring to give him such power, but the тαℓмυdic Noahide laws do.

    This is another example of his masonic double-speak, where the implication is of a zionist police state.

    4. Of course, we know the Trump’s flip on abortion and LGBTqueer agendas. 

    Should I go on… or do you still think it’s unclear that Trump is against, the Natural law, against America and an adversary of Catholicism?

    I can dig out the links to Trump’s speeches, but many have been posted on this forum.
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Debunking Vigano’s Vote Scare
    « Reply #5 on: October 31, 2024, 03:32:45 PM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on October 31, 2024, 03:23:17 PM
    1. Trump gives a speech recently, saying he’s not Christian (even though he’s photographed himself purportedly with a Bible).
    .
    That's been debunked. What he said was "I am a Christian." This has been thoroughly debunked on previous CI threads.
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Debunking Vigano’s Vote Scare
    « Reply #6 on: October 31, 2024, 03:35:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on October 31, 2024, 03:23:17 PM
    2. Trump gave another recent speech saying he was for parental notification of children’s sex change operations.  Can you tell me when Trump ever mentioned he was for child transgender mutilations?

    This also has been thoroughly debunked. Use the search box to find the facts.

    He has clearly and repeatedly said he opposes children's sex change surgeries. He is especially outraged that they are taking place without the parents' consent and even without their knowledge.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Debunking Vigano’s Vote Scare
    « Reply #7 on: October 31, 2024, 03:41:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on October 31, 2024, 11:33:11 AM
    Incredulous:

    Your post says "majority" of Trad Bishops remain silent.  Is there a Trad Bishop who has "debunked" Vigano's position? Although I haven't seen any sedevacantist bishops "debunk" it, it's my understanding that their position is that it is permissible to vote for him, but not an obligation.  Given Vigano's supposed Resistance connections, has a Resistance bishop debunked it?

    Good question 2Vermont.

     I haven’t tried to quantify the protests against Archbishop Vigano’s claim of a “Catholic obligation” to vote for Trump.

    My take is that Vigano is a political embarrassment to the SSPX since he openly criticizes pope Francis.

    The SSPX Resistance fawns over the Archbishop and other indult or R&R groups haven’t appeared to speak up.

    An SSPV priest, Father Wm. Jenkins has come out and said it was not a sin to vote for Trump.
     It seems that the sede groups discount Archbishop Vigano possibly because he believes the modernist popes prior to Bergy are valid.

    If you find any articles of members of trad Catholic religious groups protesting, the “Catholic obligation” to vote for Trump, please let me know?
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Debunking Vigano’s Vote Scare
    « Reply #8 on: October 31, 2024, 03:44:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: Cera on October 31, 2024, 03:32:45 PM
    That's been debunked. What he said was "I am a Christian." This has been thoroughly debunked on previous CI threads.

    No Cera, it was only debunked in your mind.
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Debunking Vigano’s Vote Scare
    « Reply #9 on: October 31, 2024, 03:47:15 PM »
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    • Quote from: Cera on October 31, 2024, 03:35:56 PM
    This also has been thoroughly debunked. Use the search box to find the facts.

    He has clearly and repeatedly said he opposes children's sex change surgeries. He is especially outraged that they are taking place without the parents' consent and even without their knowledge.

    Cera, are using “Snopes” to verify what Trump actually says?
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Debunking Vigano’s Vote Scare
    « Reply #10 on: October 31, 2024, 04:16:48 PM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on October 31, 2024, 03:44:47 PM
    No Cera, it was only debunked in your mind.

    Cera's been "debunked" a hundred times already lying to protect Trump.  She's some bizarre psychological attachment to the guy.  Only someone who's got deliberate blinders on can deny the evils of Trump ... tending to argue only that he's LESS evil and therefore it would be permitted to vote for him.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Debunking Vigano’s Vote Scare
    « Reply #11 on: October 31, 2024, 04:37:13 PM »
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    • Quote
    An SSPV priest, Father Wm. Jenkins has come out and said it was not a sin to vote for Trump.
    Agree.  I'd say probably 99% of Trad clerics would say it's not a sin to vote for him.



    Quote
    Right, sorry for not giving a recap of Archbishop Vigano’s errors in promoting Trump.
    If something isn't a sin, then how can it be an "error"?  (In this case, you are using "error" not in the sense of a mistake, but in the sense of being wrong). 


    If you want to disagree with +Vigano that one has an "obligation" to vote for Trump, then ok.  But I don't see how it can be an error to vote for him.  You're just going in the opposite extreme of +Vigano.
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    Offline OxenandAves

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    Re: Debunking Vigano’s Vote Scare
    « Reply #12 on: October 31, 2024, 04:38:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 31, 2024, 04:37:13 PM
    Agree.  I'd say probably 99% of Trad clerics would say it's not a sin to vote for him.


    If something isn't a sin, then how can it be an "error"?  (In this case, you are using "error" not in the sense of a mistake, but in the sense of being wrong). 


    If you want to disagree with +Vigano that one has an "obligation" to vote for Trump, then ok.  But I don't see how it can be an error to vote for him.  You're just going in the opposite extreme of +Vigano.
    Voting for abortion is a sin.

    A vote for hαɾɾιs is abortion, a vote for Trump is a vote for less “late term abortions” but “early term” abortion is still murder. And the lesser of two evils is still evil. And a Catholic in good conscience cannot vote for evil.

    It’s really that simple.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Debunking Vigano’s Vote Scare
    « Reply #13 on: October 31, 2024, 04:44:13 PM »
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    • Quote
    a vote for Trump is a vote for less “late term abortions” but “early term” abortion is still murder.
    Abortion is no longer a federal issue.  Anything that happens, is the state's responsibility.
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    Offline OxenandAves

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    Re: Debunking Vigano’s Vote Scare
    « Reply #14 on: October 31, 2024, 05:28:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 31, 2024, 04:44:13 PM
    Quote from: Pax Vobis
    Abortion is no longer a federal issue.  Anything that happens, is the state's responsibility.

    I’m sorry but this is liberalism and mental gymnastics. Culpability doesn’t just jump to the state if a person consents to sin.

    The moral reality of abortion doesn’t change with jurisdiction either. Murder remains murder, whether federally sanctioned or left to the states.
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