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Author Topic: Debate: Jeff Cassman vs. Br. Peter Dimond - Are JXXIII thru Francis true Popes?  (Read 15727 times)

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Offline DigitalLogos

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  • This guy was not R&R.  When he responded to the question about errors in Vatican II, he said there were "ambiguities".
    I say that because he's apparently some huge apologist for the Neo-SSPX

    On a serious note, he seems awfully thin.  Is this normal for him? Is he okay?
    I don’t know. This is the first time I've ever seen him outside of a single photo. Maybe he does extreme penances? He looked thin, but not ill to me.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • Indeed. Conservative NO's are the closest to the Catholic position in that false church. If sedevacantism were proven undeniably false, I would have no choice but to humble myself and go NO conservative. And even then, if that were the case, according to the NO I can be saved being literally any religion imaginable, so there's no point in even doing that when you can choose an easier religion. :facepalm:

    Being a sedevacantist is honestly the most logical position. If I'm wrong, then I lose virtually nothing because I can still be saved according to the NO. But if I'm right, I gain everything because I would be firmly on the right path following the Catholic religion in this apostasy

    Right.  If I became convinced that the Conciliar Church is the Catholic Church, I would make haste to rejoin it somehow.  I might even appear on Marcus Grodi's "The Journey Home" program :laugh1:


    Offline 2Vermont

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  • Right.  If I became convinced that the Conciliar Church is the Catholic Church, I would make haste to rejoin it somehow.  I might even appear on Marcus Grodi's "The Journey Home" program :laugh1:
    :laugh1:

    Offline St Giles

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  • I say that because he's apparently some huge apologist for the Neo-SSPX
    I don’t know. This is the first time I've ever seen him outside of a single photo. Maybe he does extreme penances? He looked thin, but not ill to me.
    He didn't look well to me at first.

    Do the Dimonds receive the sacraments from anyone? Do they have a priest there?
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Bataar

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  • He didn't look well to me at first.

    Do the Dimonds receive the sacraments from anyone? Do they have a priest there?
    It was my understanding that they received the sacraments from an eastern rite Catholic priest since they knew he was validly ordained.


    Offline Ladislaus

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  • It was my understanding that they received the sacraments from an eastern rite Catholic priest since they knew he was validly ordained.

    They did for a while, but I think they may have stopped.

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • On a serious note, he seems awfully thin.  Is this normal for him? Is he okay?

    That struck me as well.  If you look at the still shot that shows an older picture, he does currently seem to be extremely thin.  So either he's been fasting or else he may have a health issue (such as cancer) ... as he almost has that "emaciated" look to him (like my brother did before he died of cancer).

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • I do wish the debates would focus less on the "heretic pope" question and more on the broader questions of ...

    Is the Conciliar Church the Catholic Church?

    and

    Is it possilble for a legitimate Pope to destroy the Church, pervert the Magisterium, institute a (bad imitation of a) Prot liturgy as the Church's public worship, canonize bogus saints, etc.?

    Cassman actually set that up as a softball in his earlier remarks, where he claimed that the Papacy is there precisely to be the rock on which the Chuch is founded and to prevent all these evils to befall the Church.  Yes, indeed, and that's why we say these men can't be popes.

    You can argue until the cows come home about Bellarmine vs. Cajetan / John of St. Thomas (Bellarmine's opinion is much stronger in that any alternative entails judging a pope and having the declaration serve as a cause of the deposition, and those views are both heretical).


    Offline Ladislaus

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  • Just listen to Cassman from about 23:58 - 24:58.  This is PRECISELY the reason for SVism.  He was handing Brother Peter, on a silver platter, the rope with which to hang him during this debate.

    Offline ByzCat3000

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  • Indeed. Conservative NO's are the closest to the Catholic position in that false church. If sedevacantism were proven undeniably false, I would have no choice but to humble myself and go NO conservative. And even then, if that were the case, according to the NO I can be saved being literally any religion imaginable, so there's no point in even doing that when you can choose an easier religion. :facepalm:

    Being a sedevacantist is honestly the most logical position. If I'm wrong, then I lose virtually nothing because I can still be saved according to the NO. But if I'm right, I gain everything because I would be firmly on the right path following the Catholic religion in this apostasy
    I don’t find this argument convincing because BOTH sides believe people who pick the wrong position CAN be saved but nevertheless believe that it makes it more difficult for them.  Most sede clerics believe there are some true Catholic laypeople in the NO churches, while I believe 83 canon law leaves it ambiguous whether sspv, CMRI, etc can have valid confessions.  I feel like either way you’re making the best decision you can and trusting God if you’re wrong. The mere fact that you CAN be saved if you’re wrong doesn’t mean it’s just completely irrelevant or has zero spiritual consequences. 

    Offline Sgt Rock USMC

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  • It was good to see Brother Peter behind a webcam, he should start some kind of podcast.  

    I enjoyed the debate, but I don't necessarily believe it was very good.  Of course, Brother Peter came prepared, but Mr. Cassman was out of his league on this one.  The Pints with Aquinas guy should have done more due diligence and brought a better prepared individual to argue against the Sede Vacante position.  

    Regardless, I'm glad Brother Peter agreed to the debate.  I hope he gave some folks something to think about.  


    Offline St Giles

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  • They did for a while, but I think they may have stopped.
    If so, I wonder if they think the true Mass has stopped.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline HolyAngels

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  • Regardless, I'm glad Brother Peter agreed to the debate.  I hope he gave some folks something to think about. 
    He certainly has me thinking of talking with a priest of a local independent chapel. 
    For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places
    Ephesians 6:12

    Offline mcollier

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  • I do wish the debates would focus less on the "heretic pope" question and more on the broader questions of ...

    Is the Conciliar Church the Catholic Church?

    and

    Is it possilble for a legitimate Pope to destroy the Church, pervert the Magisterium, institute a (bad imitation of a) Prot liturgy as the Church's public worship, canonize bogus saints, etc.?

    Cassman actually set that up as a softball in his earlier remarks, where he claimed that the Papacy is there precisely to be the rock on which the Chuch is founded and to prevent all these evils to befall the Church.  Yes, indeed, and that's why we say these men can't be popes.

    You can argue until the cows come home about Bellarmine vs. Cajetan / John of St. Thomas (Bellarmine's opinion is much stronger in that any alternative entails judging a pope and having the declaration serve as a cause of the deposition, and those views are both heretical).
    The schismatic Conciliar sect is NOT the Catholic Church. The errors/heresies promoted come from this schismatic sect NOT the Catholic Church. The NO Mass is a schismatic rite for instance. The conciliar/modernist heretics are NOT members of the Catholic Church by their sin of breaking with the Faith. They do not profess the True Catholic Faith. However, they can possess their office until they are deposed by a general council or future pope, because their holding of an office is a separate matter separate and apart from their membership with the Church. Catholics are duty bound to avoid these heretics and their errors. Fr. Chazal’s Contra Cekadam addresses many of these questions. One can say there are similarities to sedeprivationism, but there are important differences. Ultimate there is more agreement among Cajetan, Bellarmine, John of St. Thomas, Billuart, etc (though not unanimous/perfect agreement) about how this crisis is handled. But it is definitely NOT sedevacantism or conservative Novus Ordo’ism (which is what the neoSSPX is becoming except worse because they claim the Catholic Church can promulgate poisonous rites/teachings).

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • If so, I wonder if they think the true Mass has stopped.

    Well, of course they would hold that there are valid Masses still going on, but I doubt they believe that any existinng priests or bishops still hold the full Catholic faith.