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Author Topic: Debate: Jeff Cassman vs. Br. Peter Dimond - Are JXXIII thru Francis true Popes?  (Read 17389 times)

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Offline DigitalLogos

Re: Debate: Jeff Cassman vs. Br. Peter Dimond - Are JXXIII thru Francis true Popes?
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2022, 08:17:34 PM »
Quote from: Mithrandylan on September 20, 2022, 08:13:10 PM
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To be clear, I watched the video and actually rewinded it several times to make sure I was understanding their case. My friend did not tell me anything about it, except that she found it a compelling case for SVism.
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Why is the Eric Hoyle case not sufficient evidence?
Because it was objectively decided by the courts in favor of MHFM. Hoyle donated the money and then later decided he didn't like their monastery and tried to get the donation back. There's no evidence they coerced him into making such a donation.
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Offline St Giles

  • Supporter
Re: Debate: Jeff Cassman vs. Br. Peter Dimond - Are JXXIII thru Francis true Popes?
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2022, 08:20:04 PM »
Crisis or not, it seems a bit of a stretch that the Dimonds can't or won't find a valid enough bishop to be their authority.
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Offline DigitalLogos

Re: Debate: Jeff Cassman vs. Br. Peter Dimond - Are JXXIII thru Francis true Popes?
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2022, 08:34:09 PM »
Quote from: St Giles on September 20, 2022, 08:20:04 PM
Crisis or not, it seems a bit of a stretch that the Dimonds can't or won't find a valid enough bishop to be their authority.
So now there's degrees to validity? Also, it's not a matter of valid holy orders, for them, but jurisdiction. They do not believe there are any bishops with jurisdiction remaining, that they know of.
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Offline St Giles

  • Supporter
Re: Debate: Jeff Cassman vs. Br. Peter Dimond - Are JXXIII thru Francis true Popes?
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2022, 08:38:38 PM »
Quote from: DigitalLogos on September 20, 2022, 08:34:09 PM
So now there's degrees to validity? Also, it's not a matter of valid holy orders, for them, but jurisdiction. They do not believe there are any bishops with jurisdiction remaining, that they know of.
I meant valid enough for their own liking, or sufficiently fitting their criteria given no other options.
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Offline Clemens Maria

Re: Debate: Jeff Cassman vs. Br. Peter Dimond - Are JXXIII thru Francis true Popes?
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2022, 08:39:45 PM »
Quote from: DigitalLogos on September 20, 2022, 07:21:27 PM
Okay, well, if you wanted to be objective you would actually seek out what their true position is on the Pope, not paraphrase some hearsay about what your friend sent you years ago. https://schismatic-home-aloner.com/anti-pope-francis-vatican-ii-antipopes/

Second, prove that the Dimonds are "con-men" (and no, don't point to the Eric Hoyle case). I don't necessarily agree with all their positions, but I would argue that they are genuine in their zeal, if not mistaken on some things and their approach on evangelization; albeit, this debate was a proof that Br. Peter isn't necessarily the "uncharitable" "bitter" person he's made out to be.

Exactly right.  The Eric Hoyle case hinged on Hoyle proving that MHFM was a fraud.  He failed to do that.  As far as the accuracy of MHFM's claim that they are Benedictines, the court isn't really the last word on that.  But who is going decide that issue?  The Novus Ordo sect?  No.  If MHFM isn't Benedictine, then what about the SSPX Benedictines?  They don't have canonical recognition from the Novus Ordo either.  And why would traditionalists care about what the Novus Ordo thinks?  So no, MHFM is not a fraud and the brothers are not con-men.
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