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Author Topic: Debate: Jeff Cassman vs. Br. Peter Dimond - Are JXXIII thru Francis true Popes?  (Read 15603 times)

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Offline Miser Peccator

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  • I had to come back online for a bit and checked in.

    This is interesting:

    https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/finance/cassman-tells-judge-he-is-guilty/article_0cbd6ddc-393c-5494-be99-1a3826484cb6.html

    Cassman tells judge he is guilty
    • KEN WHITEHOUSE
    • [color=rgba(40, 40, 41, 0.5)]DEC 21, 2010[/font][/size][/font][/size][/color]




    Cassman tells judge he is guilty




    Clean cut, wearing a green prison-issued jumpsuit and shackled at the ankles, the former Franklin-based fraudster/politician Jeff Cassman admitted his guilt today in running a Ponzi scheme.
    The plea entered before U.S. District Court Judge Aleta Trauger, which had no conditions meaning there is no plea bargain, came on the day when his trial was supposed to begin. Cassman had originally pled not guilty before a U.S. Magistrate in October.
    Cassman fled Tennessee in late 2008 – taking his wife and nine children with him – to avoid prosecution on mail and securities fraud charges related to a Ponzi scheme. He was indicted early this year and apprehended in Guatemala. While he was in that country, a 10th child was born to him and his wife.

    Sentencing has been set for Monday, March 28. until then, federal probation officers will develop a pre-sentencing report to present to Trauger to help her determine the length of the prison sentence and other penalties.
    The maximum penalties for mail fraud are 20 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. For securities fraud, they're 20 years in prison and a $5 million fine.

    In addition to admitting his guilt today, Cassman also admitted to another lie – one he won't be charged for. In the past, he has represented himself to victims as having a theological degree, even claiming as much on social websites such as LinkedIn.
    Asked today by Trauger what his highest level of education was, a question designed to make sure that he could not make claims of ignorance or misunderstanding later should he try to go back on his guilty plea, Cassman replied "College...and some graduate courses."
    Cassman has a college degree he obtained online through Missouri-based Park University, but claimed he had a master's in theology from Holy Apostles College and Seminary in Connecticut.
    Trauger has been busy recently with other Ponzi schemers, having overseen the trials of fraudsters like Michael Park and Aaron Vallett.
    Assistant U.S. Attorney Ty Howard, who prosecuted the late Barry Stokes for his 1Point fraud, is the prosecuting attorney. Nashville attorney Nathan Moore is representing Cassman.

    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon

    Offline DigitalLogos

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  • That's interesting. But I don't see how it has anything to do with his arguments against sedevacantism.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline Miser Peccator

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  • That's interesting. But I don't see how it has anything to do with his arguments against sedevacantism.
    You're right.  Arguments stand on their own merits of course.
    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon

    Offline Xenophon

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  • The guy got utterly decimated. It's actually interesting he was part of a Ponzi scheme as well. I find his fallacious copes and lack of admittance of simple facts just such a display of ones character, especially considering the subject matter...
    “The Roman pontiff is the true vicar of Christ, the head of the whole church and the father and teacher of all Christians; and to him was committed in blessed Peter, by our lord Jesus Christ, the full power of tending, ruling and governing the whole church.” Council of Florence, Session 6

    Offline Melanie

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  • The guy got utterly decimated. It's actually interesting he was part of a Ponzi scheme as well. I find his fallacious copes and lack of admittance of simple facts just such a display of ones character, especially considering the subject matter...
    He was decimated.  Are we certain that’s the same Jeff Cassman arrested for the Ponzi scheme?  I wonder if SSPX approved his representing their position in this debate.  I don’t see how anyone else could have done any better though. 


    Offline Miser Peccator

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  • He was decimated.  Are we certain that’s the same Jeff Cassman arrested for the Ponzi scheme?  I wonder if SSPX approved his representing their position in this debate.  I don’t see how anyone else could have done any better though.
    Yes, that's important and I checked into that before posting it. 




    Here is another article with a different photo:
    https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2010/12/22/former-financial-fugitive-pleads-guilty.html


    And more info from Church Militant:

    https://www.churchmilitant.com/main/generic/the-truth-about-jeff-cassman
    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon

    Offline Mithrandylan

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  • Really?  I thought their focus was the promulgation and teaching of Vatican II as it is with most sedes.
    .
    About five years ago a friend and I were discussing the brothers, and she mentioned them having some 'good material' and sent a video along for me to review. It was a case for sedevacantism, and their ultimate conclusion was that the conciliar pontiffs do not have the virtue of faith and therefore are not members of the Church (and therefore not popes). They of course discussed the errors of Vatican 2, but only as evidence that those men lack the virtue of faith. 
    .
    If I can find the video, I will post it. 
    .
    That said, I clearly spoke prematurely. Turns out Cassman is a con-man, too. Matt Fradd has always rubbed me the wrong way and I guess I shouldn't be surprised that he pulled out someone who has literally faked theological credentials to debate someone who literally fakes religious credentials. These people deserve each other. 
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline DigitalLogos

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  • .
    About five years ago a friend and I were discussing the brothers, and she mentioned them having some 'good material' and sent a video along for me to review. It was a case for sedevacantism, and their ultimate conclusion was that the conciliar pontiffs do not have the virtue of faith and therefore are not members of the Church (and therefore not popes). They of course discussed the errors of Vatican 2, but only as evidence that those men lack the virtue of faith.
    .
    If I can find the video, I will post it.
    .
    That said, I clearly spoke prematurely. Turns out Cassman is a con-man, too. Matt Fradd has always rubbed me the wrong way and I guess I shouldn't be surprised that he pulled out someone who has literally faked theological credentials to debate someone who literally fakes religious credentials. These people deserve each other.
    Okay, well, if you wanted to be objective you would actually seek out what their true position is on the Pope, not paraphrase some hearsay about what your friend sent you years ago. https://schismatic-home-aloner.com/anti-pope-francis-vatican-ii-antipopes/

    Second, prove that the Dimonds are "con-men" (and no, don't point to the Eric Hoyle case). I don't necessarily agree with all their positions, but I would argue that they are genuine in their zeal, if not mistaken on some things and their approach on evangelization; albeit, this debate was a proof that Br. Peter isn't necessarily the "uncharitable" "bitter" person he's made out to be.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline 2Vermont

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  • This debate was a proof that Br. Peter isn't necessarily the "uncharitable" "bitter" person he's made out to be.
    I was very pleased with his performance.  I have more respect for him now given his ability to remain calm and charitable. Not to mention his ability to throw out support for the sedevacantist position on a dime.

    Offline Mithrandylan

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  • Okay, well, if you wanted to be objective you would actually seek out what their true position is on the Pope, not paraphrase some hearsay about what your friend sent you years ago. https://schismatic-home-aloner.com/anti-pope-francis-vatican-ii-antipopes/

    Second, prove that the Dimonds are "con-men" (and no, don't point to the Eric Hoyle case). I don't necessarily agree with all their positions, but I would argue that they are genuine in their zeal, if not mistaken on some things and their approach on evangelization; albeit, this debate was a proof that Br. Peter isn't necessarily the "uncharitable" "bitter" person he's made out to be.
    .
    To be clear, I watched the video and actually rewinded it several times to make sure I was understanding their case. My friend did not tell me anything about it, except that she found it a compelling case for SVism. 
    .
    Why is the Eric Hoyle case not sufficient evidence? 
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline DigitalLogos

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  • .
    To be clear, I watched the video and actually rewinded it several times to make sure I was understanding their case. My friend did not tell me anything about it, except that she found it a compelling case for SVism.
    .
    Why is the Eric Hoyle case not sufficient evidence?
    Because it was objectively decided by the courts in favor of MHFM. Hoyle donated the money and then later decided he didn't like their monastery and tried to get the donation back. There's no evidence they coerced him into making such a donation.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline St Giles

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  • Crisis or not, it seems a bit of a stretch that the Dimonds can't or won't find a valid enough bishop to be their authority.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline DigitalLogos

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  • Crisis or not, it seems a bit of a stretch that the Dimonds can't or won't find a valid enough bishop to be their authority.
    So now there's degrees to validity? Also, it's not a matter of valid holy orders, for them, but jurisdiction. They do not believe there are any bishops with jurisdiction remaining, that they know of.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline St Giles

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  • So now there's degrees to validity? Also, it's not a matter of valid holy orders, for them, but jurisdiction. They do not believe there are any bishops with jurisdiction remaining, that they know of.
    I meant valid enough for their own liking, or sufficiently fitting their criteria given no other options.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Clemens Maria

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  • Okay, well, if you wanted to be objective you would actually seek out what their true position is on the Pope, not paraphrase some hearsay about what your friend sent you years ago. https://schismatic-home-aloner.com/anti-pope-francis-vatican-ii-antipopes/

    Second, prove that the Dimonds are "con-men" (and no, don't point to the Eric Hoyle case). I don't necessarily agree with all their positions, but I would argue that they are genuine in their zeal, if not mistaken on some things and their approach on evangelization; albeit, this debate was a proof that Br. Peter isn't necessarily the "uncharitable" "bitter" person he's made out to be.

    Exactly right.  The Eric Hoyle case hinged on Hoyle proving that MHFM was a fraud.  He failed to do that.  As far as the accuracy of MHFM's claim that they are Benedictines, the court isn't really the last word on that.  But who is going decide that issue?  The Novus Ordo sect?  No.  If MHFM isn't Benedictine, then what about the SSPX Benedictines?  They don't have canonical recognition from the Novus Ordo either.  And why would traditionalists care about what the Novus Ordo thinks?  So no, MHFM is not a fraud and the brothers are not con-men.