Author Topic: Dear Feeneyites, how did you get to where you are?  (Read 2344 times)

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Offline Mabel

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Dear Feeneyites, how did you get to where you are?
« on: September 29, 2013, 07:29:01 PM »
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  • Using the term Feeneyites, for lack of a better word. I'd like to understand how and why you adopted the positions or a derivation of the positions of Leonard Feeney. Maybe it was something you read, a pamphlet, a radio show, perhaps you live near one of their areas. I'm genuinely curious.

    Offline bowler

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    Dear Feeneyites, how did you get to where you are?
    « Reply #1 on: September 29, 2013, 07:40:32 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mabel
    Using the term Feeneyites, for lack of a better word. I'd like to understand how and why you adopted the positions or a derivation of the positions of Leonard Feeney. Maybe it was something you read, a pamphlet, a radio show, perhaps you live near one of their areas. I'm genuinely curious.


    I learned from my infancy and my father and all relatives too, that John 3:5 is interpreted literally.  I am a Spaniard by blood, and so are all of my family and ancestors. It is the reason why we kept the Protestant heretics out of our countries, for we knew that they and all of the Indians are damned unless they embrace the true faith. It has nothing to do with a Fr. Feeney.

    http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1552xavier4.html
    From: Henry James Coleridge, ed., The Life and Letters of St. Francis Xavier, 2d Ed., 2 Vols., (London: Burns & Oates, 1890), Vol. II, pp. 331-350; reprinted in William H. McNeil and Mitsuko Iriye, eds., Modern Asia and Africa, Readings in World History Vol. 9, (New York: Oxford University Press, 1971), pp. 20-30.
    St. Francis Xavier:
    Letter from Japan, to the Society of Jesus in Europe, 1552

    One of the things that most of all pains and torments these Japanese is, that we teach them that the prison of hell is irrevocably shut, so that there is no egress therefrom. For they grieve over the fate of their departed children, of their parents and relatives, and they often show their grief by their tears. So they ask us if there is any hope, any way to free them by prayer from that eternal misery, and I am obliged to answer that there is absolutely none. Their grief at this affects and torments them wonderfully; they almost pine away with sorrow. But there is this good thing about their trouble---it makes one hope that they will all be the more laborious for their own salvation, lest they like their forefathers, should be condemned to everlasting punishment. They often ask if God cannot take their fathers out of hell, and why their punishment must never have an end. We gave them a satisfactory answer, but they did not cease to grieve over the misfortune of their relatives; and I can hardly restrain my tears sometimes at seeing men so dear to my heart suffer such intense pain about a thing which is already done with and can never be undone.



    Offline Cantarella

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    Dear Feeneyites, how did you get to where you are?
    « Reply #2 on: September 29, 2013, 08:13:09 PM »
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  • The reason is that I believe in the infallible teaching of the Church that the words of Our Lord Jesus Christ are to be understood literally. (John 3:5 – Amen, amen I say unto thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God).

    This would exclude any possibility of salvation without being born again of water and the Holy Ghost. I cannot reconcile this with the concept of baptism of desire or of blood & invisible ignorance.

    I also believe that God, in His Infinite Omnipotence, will ensure that His elect WILL get baptized with water, just as Christ, Our Savior, instituted it and demonstrated with his own very actions and that his elect WILL come to the knowledge of the True faith and not remain in state of ignorance.

    If the invisible ignorant can be saved and those outside of the Church can in fact be in God's grace, there is no point at all in evangelizing. Our effort of conversion and winning souls over to Our Lord and Our Lady makes no sense.

     


    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Mabel

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    Dear Feeneyites, how did you get to where you are?
    « Reply #3 on: September 29, 2013, 08:16:01 PM »
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  • I'm not asking why you believe it. I'm asking how you arrived at the conclusion, what was your first exposure?

    Offline Cantarella

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    Dear Feeneyites, how did you get to where you are?
    « Reply #4 on: September 29, 2013, 09:25:01 PM »
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  • I first heard the term"Feeneyite" in this forum. I have read Fr. Feeney works but I don't consider myself his "follower". Those beliefs that are categorized as "feeneyists" here are simply what I had understood were given facts by the Holy Catholic Church.

    Interesting to note though, is that I was raised in a very, very, Catholic country, conquered and evangelized by the Spaniards, go figure!
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


    Offline ggreg

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    Dear Feeneyites, how did you get to where you are?
    « Reply #5 on: September 29, 2013, 09:30:55 PM »
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  • How did the good thief,  St. Dismas, go to Heaven?  He was not baptised with water, as far as the Gospels tell us.

    Offline Mabel

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    Dear Feeneyites, how did you get to where you are?
    « Reply #6 on: September 29, 2013, 09:47:49 PM »
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  • My first exposure was a sticker. But I've never held their positions.

    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    Dear Feeneyites, how did you get to where you are?
    « Reply #7 on: September 29, 2013, 09:52:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    How did the good thief,  St. Dismas, go to Heaven?  He was not baptised with water, as far as the Gospels tell us.


    From my understanding, the Good Thief did not go to Heaven right there and then, but beheld the vision of Our resurrected Lord's Divine Person along with the rest of the souls of the just who were liberated from the Limbo of the Fathers until they entered into the Beatific vision of the Blessed Trinity in Heaven when Our Lord ascended into Heaven.

    Baptism was not promulgated as a universal law binding all the human race until either the day of the Ascension of Our Lord or the Mission of the Holy Ghost on Pentecost Sunday. This is stated by Msgr. Preuss in his treatise upon Baptism, to which I do not have access right now.
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.


    Offline ThomisticPhilosopher

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    Dear Feeneyites, how did you get to where you are?
    « Reply #8 on: September 29, 2013, 09:55:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    I first heard the term"Feeneyite" in this forum. I have read Fr. Feeney works but I don't consider myself his "follower". Those beliefs that are categorized as "feeneyists" here are simply what I had understood were given facts by the Holy Catholic Church.

    Interesting to note though, is that I was raised in a very, very, Catholic country, conquered and evangelized by the Spaniards, go figure!


    Interesting! I am a Mexican mestizo with more spanish ancestry in the background. God Bless the Cristero's who are one of the few countries that never accepted a Schismatic Church imposed by the state despite all the suffering they went through. They were really children of the Church, this is where precisely the Masons in the Alta Vendita succeeded in due time. They knew that was the only successful way to take over the minds of peasants. The Cristeros they put down their arms at the bidding of the Holy Father (which we know looking back 20/20 ended badly so much for comprimising with the enemies of the Church!), but God bless them for their filial obedience. If they would have never put down their arms the Mexicans were going to win against the Masonic government, Mexico would be a first world country for sure and everything would be different. Either way we have thousands of Martyrs in the Blessed Land of Our Lady of Guadalupe, she is truly there even still her image stands as a testimony to all nations of the Glory of the Catholic Church.

    I certainly feel proud of both my indigenous and spanish heritage, the faith of the indigenous people took well over 2 centuries to demolish. That is how deeply rooted their piety is and it is still deeply in Mexico. Interesting to note how Sedevacantism is pretty strong in Mexico, they should especially know the real claws of Masonry after having suffered for over 2 centuries its persecution. There is no doubt in my mind that Mexico was like no other Catholic nation, it was the conversion of an entire country through the special intervention of Heaven.

    Cantarella are you Filipino, just wondering!? We have a few Filipino families that I know, very good friends with them. The way I see it is Filipino's are kind of cousins to Mexicans  :laugh1: . God truly works in mysterious ways and one day we will know precisely how it all happened in one instant in the Last Judgement where all of us will stand in awe of His justice and mercy.
    https://keybase.io/saintaquinas , has all my other verified accounts including PGP key plus BTC address for bitcoin tip jar. A.M.D.G.

    Offline Binechi

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    Dear Feeneyites, how did you get to where you are?
    « Reply #9 on: September 30, 2013, 07:01:02 AM »
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  • Mabel...
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    Quote
    My first exposure was a sticker. But I've never held their positions.


    Mabel ,, When you say "their Position",  could you explain in your own words , what you interpet as "their Position",  
    Tks

    Offline Jehanne

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    Dear Feeneyites, how did you get to where you are?
    « Reply #10 on: September 30, 2013, 07:16:40 AM »
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  • Quote from: Mabel
    Using the term Feeneyites, for lack of a better word. I'd like to understand how and why you adopted the positions or a derivation of the positions of Leonard Feeney. Maybe it was something you read, a pamphlet, a radio show, perhaps you live near one of their areas. I'm genuinely curious.


    What Father Feeney taught just makes sense.  The whole notion of "implicit faith" and/or "implicit desire" is just absurd; it's like "division by zero."  Allow "division by zero" and one can prove anything.

    Take "implicit faith".  How does one who has "implicit faith" ever be guilty of the sins of heresy and apostasy?  How does a Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, etc., who has "implicit faith" in Jesus Christ ever get rid of his/her implicit faith?  If someone is implicitly joined to the Catholic Church, how does such an individual ever become "unjoined" to the Church, as an act of their own human free will?  And, is someone who has genuine "implicit faith" capable of refusing sacramental Baptism without sin?  What happens if they do?  Does their "implicit faith" go away or does it still remain?  Can we, as traditional Catholic, lead people into sin just by preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ to them?

    It just makes sense to me that those whom the One and Triune God has predestined to eternal life, His Elect, will also be predestined by Him to receive sacramental Baptism, which is the character of His divine sons and daughters.  And why would the omnipotent God not lead someone who is sincerely seeking Him into the One True Faith and One True Church?  If such a person is willing to do God's will, it seems to me that a God who can "move mountains" and raise individuals from the dead can also deliver someone from their state of "invincible ignorance."


    Offline Mabel

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    Dear Feeneyites, how did you get to where you are?
    « Reply #11 on: September 30, 2013, 10:44:28 AM »
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  • Quote from: Director
    Mabel...
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote
    My first exposure was a sticker. But I've never held their positions.


    Mabel ,, When you say "their Position",  could you explain in your own words , what you interpet as "their Position",  
    Tks


    I've never been a Feeneyite, though I've been exposed to their materials, is what I mean.

    Offline Mabel

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    Dear Feeneyites, how did you get to where you are?
    « Reply #12 on: September 30, 2013, 10:46:12 AM »
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  • Quote from: Jehanne
    Quote from: Mabel
    Using the term Feeneyites, for lack of a better word. I'd like to understand how and why you adopted the positions or a derivation of the positions of Leonard Feeney. Maybe it was something you read, a pamphlet, a radio show, perhaps you live near one of their areas. I'm genuinely curious.


    What Father Feeney taught just makes sense.  The whole notion of "implicit faith" and/or "implicit desire" is just absurd; it's like "division by zero."  Allow "division by zero" and one can prove anything.

    Take "implicit faith".  How does one who has "implicit faith" ever be guilty of the sins of heresy and apostasy?  How does a Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, etc., who has "implicit faith" in Jesus Christ ever get rid of his/her implicit faith?  If someone is implicitly joined to the Catholic Church, how does such an individual ever become "unjoined" to the Church, as an act of their own human free will?  And, is someone who has genuine "implicit faith" capable of refusing sacramental Baptism without sin?  What happens if they do?  Does their "implicit faith" go away or does it still remain?  Can we, as traditional Catholic, lead people into sin just by preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ to them?

    It just makes sense to me that those whom the One and Triune God has predestined to eternal life, His Elect, will also be predestined by Him to receive sacramental Baptism, which is the character of His divine sons and daughters.  And why would the omnipotent God not lead someone who is sincerely seeking Him into the One True Faith and One True Church?  If such a person is willing to do God's will, it seems to me that a God who can "move mountains" and raise individuals from the dead can also deliver someone from their state of "invincible ignorance."


    Are you unable to answer a question or do you just want to de-rail the thread?


    Offline Jehanne

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    Dear Feeneyites, how did you get to where you are?
    « Reply #13 on: September 30, 2013, 10:59:24 AM »
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  • Quote from: Mabel
    Quote from: Jehanne
    Quote from: Mabel
    Using the term Feeneyites, for lack of a better word. I'd like to understand how and why you adopted the positions or a derivation of the positions of Leonard Feeney. Maybe it was something you read, a pamphlet, a radio show, perhaps you live near one of their areas. I'm genuinely curious.


    What Father Feeney taught just makes sense.  The whole notion of "implicit faith" and/or "implicit desire" is just absurd; it's like "division by zero."  Allow "division by zero" and one can prove anything.

    Take "implicit faith".  How does one who has "implicit faith" ever be guilty of the sins of heresy and apostasy?  How does a Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, etc., who has "implicit faith" in Jesus Christ ever get rid of his/her implicit faith?  If someone is implicitly joined to the Catholic Church, how does such an individual ever become "unjoined" to the Church, as an act of their own human free will?  And, is someone who has genuine "implicit faith" capable of refusing sacramental Baptism without sin?  What happens if they do?  Does their "implicit faith" go away or does it still remain?  Can we, as traditional Catholic, lead people into sin just by preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ to them?

    It just makes sense to me that those whom the One and Triune God has predestined to eternal life, His Elect, will also be predestined by Him to receive sacramental Baptism, which is the character of His divine sons and daughters.  And why would the omnipotent God not lead someone who is sincerely seeking Him into the One True Faith and One True Church?  If such a person is willing to do God's will, it seems to me that a God who can "move mountains" and raise individuals from the dead can also deliver someone from their state of "invincible ignorance."


    Are you unable to answer a question or do you just want to de-rail the thread?



    I don't know that I could do one without doing the other; they inexorably linked.  But, to answer your question, "Feeneyism" (that is, what Father Feeney discussed in his Bread of Life) makes sense to me, kind of like 2+2 = 4.

    Offline Mabel

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    Dear Feeneyites, how did you get to where you are?
    « Reply #14 on: September 30, 2013, 11:05:17 AM »
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  • Quote from: Director
    Mabel...
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote
    My first exposure was a sticker. But I've never held their positions.


    Mabel ,, When you say "their Position",  could you explain in your own words , what you interpet as "their Position",  
    Tks


    Anyone who holds the controversial positions, or derivations of such, which began with Leonard Feeney. I believe most trace their roots to him and the SBC.  

    I mean I'm only seeing the adoption of any of those positions among those with exposure, first or second hand, to certain factors, which have a particular point of origin.

     

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