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Offline Lover of Truth

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Day Three of Francis The Lay Pope
« on: February 28, 2014, 07:27:59 AM »
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  • http://www.christorchaos.com/DayThreeofFrancisTheLayPope.html

    Day Three of Francis The Lay Pope
    by Thomas A. Droleskey

    This will be a short article.

    I made a serious error when I said to Sharon on Wednesday afternoon as Francis The Talking Apostate made his first appearance on the balcony of the Basilica of Saint Peter.

    What was this error?

    It was in saying, "This man looks befuddled."

    Wrong.

    Jorge Mario Bergoglio/Francis is not befuddled. He is a revolutionary who knows precisely what he is doing, and he is doing it with lightning speed.

    Although he has been the sixth in the line of false conciliar "popes" for about sixty hours as of this writing, he has moved with great speed to further "reform" the whole nature of what the conciliarists refer to as the "Petrine Ministry" as he has ditched the mozzetta, cast off his papal stole until just before he gave a blessing after first asking "the people" to pray for him, staged Protestant and Masonic Novus Ordo liturgical service as he face his brother "apostates" in the conciliar college of "cardinals," thus breaking with Joseph Ratzinger/Benedict XVI's example of staging that travesty ad oriendum in the Sistine Chapel, preached at a lectern rather than sitting, permitting the "cardinals" to greet him as he stood up to shake their hands as though a true pope, which he believes himself to be, is an equal with his "cardinals," demanded that his "cardinals" wear black cassocks instead of their scarlet ones at his audience yesterday, Friday, March 15, 2013, and ridden a minibus with the "cardinals," thus again demonstrating that he is just one among equals.

    That's a whole lot of work in sixty hours.

    Jorge Mario Bergoglio/Francis is a true conciliar revolutionary, differing with Ratzinger/Benedict on some important points no matter however much they agree on the fundamentals of conciliarism.

    One of the times the ecuмaniac who is currently the smiling, friendly, seemingly humble director of the Occupy Vatican Movement made clear his disagreement with his predecessor was in 2005 when the former Professor Ratzinger gave a lecture on Mohammedanism at Regensburg University, at which he had taught for a time early in his priestly career:

        In 2005, then Pope Benedict, while quoting from an obscure medieval text, declared that the Prophet Mohammed, founder of the Islamic faith, was "evil and inhuman", enraging the Muslim population and causing attacks on churches throughout the world before an apology was issued.

        Reacting within days to the statements, speaking through a spokesman to Newsweek Argentina, then Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio declared his "unhappiness" with the statements, made at the University of Regensburg in Germany, and encouraged many of his subordinates with the Church to do the same.

        "Pope Benedict's statement don't reflect my own opinions", the then Archbishop of Buenos Aires declared. "These statements will serve to destroy in 20 seconds the careful construction of a relationship with Islam that Pope John Paul II built over the last twenty years".

        The Vatican reacted quickly, removing one subordinate, Joaquín Piña the Archbishop of Puerto Iguazú from his post within four days of his making similar statements to the Argentine national media, sending a clear statement to Cardinal Bergoglio that he would be next should he choose to persist.

        Reacting to the threats from Rome, Cardinal Bergoglio cancelled his plans to fly to Rome, choosing to boycott the second synod that Pope Benedict had called during his tenure as pontiff.

        "The only thing that didn't happen to Bergoglio was being removed from his post", wrote investigative journalist Horacio Verbitsky in his column in left-wing daily newspaper Página/24. "The Vatican was very quick to react,"

        Cristina Kirchner, the Argentina president, stated at the time that such diatribes were "dangerous for everyone". (Lay Pope Francis' run-in with Benedict XVI over the Prophet Mohammed - Telegraph.)

    There is really no mystery to this whatsoever as Jorge Mario Bergoglio/Francis is a religious indifferentist of the first order, a man who moves freely in and out of one temple of false worship after another. He will not countenance any criticism of any false religion, including his own false religion of conciliarism, as to do so would be to "uncharitable" and offend the tender sensibilities of those who adhere to such false religions. Bergoglio/Francis is all about "feelings" and "appearance" when it comes to "bridging differences," which is why he would find Hillaire Belloc's The Great and Enduring Heresy of Mohammed to be completely unacceptable to him.

    Speaking of "bridging differences," the man who gave us the Pinocchio "Mass" (which contains footage of that 2011 youth service in Buenos Aires, Argentina, that was not included in the link provided two days ago now) and who co-authored book with Jєωιѕн Rabbi (these two links were found at Novus Ordo Wire), Jorge Mario Bergoglio/Francis, blasphemed the Third Person of the Most Blessed Trinity yesterday when he said:

        The cardinals' sense of openness and mutual friendship helped the Holy Spirit do its part during the conclave, he said.

        One "curiosity," the pope noted, is that the Holy Spirit is a sort of "apostle of Babel" that creates the differences in the church.

        But on the other hand, he said, it's the same Holy Spirit that "unites these differences, not in equality but in harmony," by focusing everyone's different gifts on the adoration of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. (Don't give in to pessimism, courageously share Gospel.)

    Apostle of Babel?

    Would you want to rethink that one, Frank?

    Apostle of Babel?

    "Picky, picky," some might say. "Our beloved, humble pope was trying say that there are a diversity of talents apportioned by God the Holy Ghost to each member of the People of God, that these differences actually build harmony. That's all he was saying. Nothing more."

    Ah, I reply, words matter. They matter a lot. Imprecision of language matters a lot, especially when one is speaking of the Three Persons of the Most Blessed Trinity.

    The Towel of Babel refers to the pride that was possessed by mankind after the Great Flood as He chose to confound their pride in speaking but a single language by confusing them with a multiplicity of languages so that they could understand each other:

        [1] And the earth was of one tongue, and of the same speech. [2] And when they removed from the east, they found a plain in the land of Sennaar, and dwelt in it. [3] And each one said to his neighbour: Come, let us make brick, and bake them with fire. And they had brick instead of stones, and slime instead of mortar. [4] And they said: Come, let us make a city and a tower, the top whereof may reach to heaven: and let us make our name famous before we be scattered abroad into all lands. [5] And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of Adam were building.

        [6] And he said: Behold, it is one people, and all have one tongue: and they have begun to do this, neither will they leave off from their designs, till they accomplish them in deed. [7] Come ye, therefore, let us go down, and there confound their tongue, that they may not understand one another's speech. [8] And so the Lord scattered them from that place into all lands, and they ceased to build the city. [9] And therefore the name thereof was called Babel, because there the language of the whole earth was confounded: and from thence the Lord scattered them abroad upon the face of all countries. [10] These are the generations of Sem: Sem was a hundred years old when he begot Arphaxad, two years after the flood. (Genesis 11: 1-9.)

    The diversity of given to us by God the Holy Ghost is not meant to confuse us in any way but to unite us in the common language of the Catholic Faith as we build up the supporting ligaments of the Mystical Body of Our Blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ with the particular gifts that we have been given:

        [1] I BESEECH you therefore, brethren, by the mercy of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing unto God, your reasonable service. [2] And be not conformed to this world; but be reformed in the newness of your mind, that you may prove what is the good, and the acceptable, and the perfect will of God. [3] For I say, by the grace that is given me, to all that are among you, not to be more wise than it behoveth to be wise, but to be wise unto sobriety, and according as God hath divided to every one the measure of faith. [4] For as in one body we have many members, but all the members have not the same office: [5] So we being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

        [6] And having different gifts, according to the grace that is given us, either prophecy, to be used according to the rule of faith; [7] Or ministry, in ministering; or he that teacheth, in doctrine; [8] He that exhorteth, in exhorting; he that giveth, with simplicity; he that ruleth, with carefulness; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness. [9] Let love be without dissimulation. Hating that which is evil, cleaving to that which is good. [10] Loving one another with the charity of brotherhood, with honour preventing one another.

        [11] In carefulness not slothful. In spirit fervent. Serving the Lord. [12] Rejoicing in hope. Patient in tribulation. Instant in prayer. [13] Communicating to the necessities of the saints. Pursuing hospitality. [14] Bless them that persecute you: bless, and curse not. [15] Rejoice with them that rejoice; weep with them that weep.

        [16] Being of one mind one towards another. Not minding high things, but consenting to the humble. Be not wise in your own conceits. [17] To no man rendering evil for evil. Providing good things, not only in the sight of God, but also in the sight of all men. [18] If it be possible, as much as is in you, have peace with all men. [19] Revenge not yourselves, my dearly beloved; but give place unto wrath, for it is written: Revenge is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord. [20] But if thy enemy be hungry, give him to eat; if he thirst, give him to drink. For, doing this, thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head.

        [21] Be not overcome by evil, but overcome evil by good. (Romans 12: 1-21.)

    It matters not what Francis the Lay Pope meant to say.

    What matters is what he said.

    The Tower of Babel has nothing to do with the diversity of distinctive gifts apportioned us by God the Holy Ghost.

    Ah, we can expect a lot this during Francis the Lay Pope's time as the "citizen pope" before he retires in peace to the slums outside of Buenos Aires (which are indeed truly, truly wretched and coexist within miles of very posh, expensive areas). The "citizen pope" speaks extemporaneously, which means that there will be a lot of spontaneous material heresy in what he say as well the simple, garden-variety conciliar heresy that flows so freely easily from his lips and with his blasphemous and sacrilegious deeds.

    Then again, Francis the Lay Pope (I will use a variety of titles with which to address him) is but a figure of Antichrist, a man who conditioning Catholics attached to the conciliar structures to get used to "informality" and "spontaneity" when discussing the Faith and to treat all religions with the respect he believes that they deserve as each is pleasing to the true God of Divine Revelation, with is why the lords of ʝʊdɛօ-Masonry are tripping all over themselves about him:

        Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio’s selection as Pope Francis has come as a welcome surprise for the Jєωιѕн community and the future of Catholic-Jєωιѕн relations.

        Rabbi Noam E. Marans, director of interreligious and intergroup relations for the American Jєωιѕн Committee, said on Thursday that the future of Catholic-Jєωιѕн relations should be in good hands with Pope Francis at the helm.

        “The surprise for Jєωιѕн people and people paying attention to Catholic-Jєωιѕн relations was all prognostication and the concerns do not seem to have come true,” he said. “We have been given arguably the most positive result one could want in terms of Catholic-Jєωιѕн relations.”

        Bergoglio, who finished runner-up to Pope Benedict XVI eight years ago, represents the first time a pope has not emanated from Europe. He is also the first Jesuit to be selected pope.

        Marans said that, more than ever, the Jєωιѕн community’s relationship with Latinos in the U.S. and abroad needs to be strengthened during Pope Francis’ reign as pope.

        “The Latino population has grown dramatically in the U.S. and it behooves us as a Jєωιѕн community to work very hard on that relationship,” Marans said. “This was a real shot in the arm of empowerment not just to Latinos in the U.S. who embrace Catholicism, but also to Latinos throughout the world and the Jєωιѕн community needs to pay attention.” (Rabbi Praises Lay Pope Francis Selection As A ‘Most Positive Result'. I have been unsuccessful in my efforts to find any remarks that Jorge Mario "Cardinal" Bergoglio might have made during the storm created by Bishop Williamson's remarks that aired on Swedish television on January 21, 2009, at a time when Bishop Williamson was the rector of the Society of Saint Pius X's seminary in Argentina. Maybe Bergoglio said nothing? My efforts to find such remarks, if they were made and still exist in cyberspace, continue.)

    "We have been given arguably the most positive result one could want in terms of Catholic-Jєωιѕн relations.”

    The "we" that Rabbi Marans is referring to even though he does not realize it consists of the devil and his minions. They are indeed most pleased at what is to them "arguably the most positive result one could want in terms" of further eroding what little is left of the sensus Catholicus in the minds, hearts and souls of conciliar Catholics and to prepare the way for the coming of Antichrist and the One World Ecuмenical Church. They certainly got their "positive result" in the "lay pope" of the moment.

    Why is Jorge Mario Bergoglio a "lay pope?

    Well, I provided a link yesterday to Father Kevin Vaillancourt's "Father" or Not? An earlier study had been undertaken by a former religious sister, Maureen Day, who wrote to Bishop Bernard Fellay, the Superior General of the Society of Saint Pius X in 1995 with her conclusions, which are appended below for your consideration. It is pretty certain, at least to me, that Jorge Mario Bergoglio, having been "installed" by the Archbishop of Buenos Aires, Argentina, Archbishop Ramón José Castellano, on December 13, 1969, was installed as a conciliar presbyter as the ordinal for the conciliar rite of presbyteral installation was issued in 1968 and came into use in 1969. Archbishop Castellano, who was a true bishop, most likely used that invalid ordinary even though there were some true bishops back in those early years who simply refused to use to conciliar rite of "priestly ordination" as they realized that it was problematic, if not invalid on its face.

    We are on the cusp of Passion Sunday and the Passion Week that follows it.

    Remember, that this is a time for suffering. Suffer well as the consecrated slaves of Our Blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ through the Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, remembering, especially during this Lent, to pray as many Rosaries each day as your state-in-life permits.

    Lift high the Cross!
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Day Three of Francis The Lay Pope
    « Reply #1 on: February 28, 2014, 09:01:56 AM »
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  • Quote from: Lover of Truth
    http://www.christorchaos.com/DayThreeofFrancisTheLayPope.html
    ...
     Francis The Talking Apostate


    This kind of language, along with stuff like "Bergy", "Frank", etc. rightly make sedevacantists look really bad.

    Regardless of what we consider his canonical status to be, we should pray for Jorge Bergoglio.  He is created by God in His image and likeness, is loved by God, and is someone's son or brother.  Imagine if he were a relative of yours.  Would you think of him the same way?  Would you speak of him the same way?  Would you not, rather, pity him and pray for him?

    Stuff like this is what people point to as the bad and bitter fruits of sedevacantism.


    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Day Three of Francis The Lay Pope
    « Reply #2 on: February 28, 2014, 09:07:35 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    http://www.christorchaos.com/DayThreeofFrancisTheLayPope.html
    ...
     Francis The Talking Apostate


    This kind of language, along with stuff like "Bergy", "Frank", etc. rightly make sedevacantists look really bad.

    Regardless of what we consider his canonical status to be, we should pray for Jorge Bergoglio.  He is created by God in His image and likeness, is loved by God, and is someone's son or brother.  Imagine if he were a relative of yours.  Would you think of him the same way?  Would you speak of him the same way?  Would you not, rather, pity him and pray for him?

    Stuff like this is what people point to as the bad and bitter fruits of sedevacantism.


    It would if the aforementioned apostates were not destroying countless souls.  No small concern.  I believe Dr. Droleskey has given them all the respect that is their due.  I cannot think of a worse thing to be responsible than for destroying souls.  Perhaps it is difficult for him to sugar coat it.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Day Three of Francis The Lay Pope
    « Reply #3 on: February 28, 2014, 09:22:25 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    http://www.christorchaos.com/DayThreeofFrancisTheLayPope.html
    ...
     Francis The Talking Apostate


    This kind of language, along with stuff like "Bergy", "Frank", etc. rightly make sedevacantists look really bad.

    Regardless of what we consider his canonical status to be, we should pray for Jorge Bergoglio.  He is created by God in His image and likeness, is loved by God, and is someone's son or brother.  Imagine if he were a relative of yours.  Would you think of him the same way?  Would you speak of him the same way?  Would you not, rather, pity him and pray for him?

    Stuff like this is what people point to as the bad and bitter fruits of sedevacantism.


    I agree that we should be careful the way we speak of him (although I completely get the anger).  We can get our message across without name-calling/disrespectful descriptions.  
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Day Three of Francis The Lay Pope
    « Reply #4 on: February 28, 2014, 09:56:42 AM »
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  • Quote from: Lover of Truth
    It would if the aforementioned apostates were not destroying countless souls.  No small concern.


    Yeah, yeah, but if you're actually trying to win souls back by converting them to your point of view, stuff like this only drives them away.  So, even from that perspective, you're actually doing harm to the truth and driving souls from it.  People were converted to Christianity in the early centuries due to being edified by the charity of the Christians, who prayed for their persecutors.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Day Three of Francis The Lay Pope
    « Reply #5 on: February 28, 2014, 10:00:25 AM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    I agree that we should be careful the way we speak of him (although I completely get the anger).  We can get our message across without name-calling/disrespectful descriptions.  


    Exactly; you're in no way compromising or being less forceful by dispensing with the name-calling and disrespect.

    I'd rather go to a chapel where they pray for Pope Francis than to be surrounding by sedevacantists who practically spit every time they mention the name "Bergy" or "Frank".

    Honestly, it's stuff like that for the most part which drives people AWAY from sedevacantism.  When they run across sedevacantists at their chapels who speak this way, they RUN, not walk, but RUN away as fast as they can.



    Offline Cantarella

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    Day Three of Francis The Lay Pope
    « Reply #6 on: February 28, 2014, 11:04:05 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: 2Vermont
    I agree that we should be careful the way we speak of him (although I completely get the anger).  We can get our message across without name-calling/disrespectful descriptions.  


    Exactly; you're in no way compromising or being less forceful by dispensing with the name-calling and disrespect.

    I'd rather go to a chapel where they pray for Pope Francis than to be surrounding by sedevacantists who practically spit every time they mention the name "Bergy" or "Frank".

    Honestly, it's stuff like that for the most part which drives people AWAY from sedevacantism.  When they run across sedevacantists at their chapels who speak this way, they RUN, not walk, but RUN away as fast as they can.




    I agree. Not to mention they lose all credibility by using unscholarly language.

    Last night, I was reading an article about St Francis de Sales, and I think that regardless on our opinions, all Catholics should follow the example of this worthy preacher: "He combined a solid orthodoxy with an intense pastoral devotion. On doctrine, he wouldn't move an inch; pastorally, there was nothing he wouldn't do. In fact, he coined the saying, “A spoonful of honey attracts more flies than a barrelful of vinegar.” He lived out Matthew 18:12 in a radical way, going to extreme (sometimes life-threatening) ends to save even a few souls".

    ST. Francis de Sales, pray for us!
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Day Three of Francis The Lay Pope
    « Reply #7 on: February 28, 2014, 11:20:45 AM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    http://www.christorchaos.com/DayThreeofFrancisTheLayPope.html
    ...
     Francis The Talking Apostate


    This kind of language, along with stuff like "Bergy", "Frank", etc. rightly make sedevacantists look really bad.

    Regardless of what we consider his canonical status to be, we should pray for Jorge Bergoglio.  He is created by God in His image and likeness, is loved by God, and is someone's son or brother.  Imagine if he were a relative of yours.  Would you think of him the same way?  Would you speak of him the same way?  Would you not, rather, pity him and pray for him?

    Stuff like this is what people point to as the bad and bitter fruits of sedevacantism.


    I agree that we should be careful the way we speak of him (although I completely get the anger).  We can get our message across without name-calling/disrespectful descriptions.  


    There are different Catholic ways of doing the same thing.  There is the Saint Frances De Sales way and the Saint Jerome way.  In the book "Liberation is a Sin" approved lauded by the Church, it teaches that (from my memory which may not be exact) that satire and sarcasm can be effectively used to get a point across.  

    We cannot pretend the man is something that he is not.  This has been going on for half a century.  Now we have to come up with a name and title for a laymen, heretic, apostate, who heads the vatican institution anti-Catholic Church.  I believe Dr. Droleskey does a creative and accurate job.

    In fact I would not be surprised if anti-pope heretic Apostate Bergolio insists everyone call him by his first name and he might prefer Frank to Francis as Francis is a bit too formal and traditional.  Just a hunch.  

    In my case it is against my conscience to call him "Pope" or "Francis".  "Francis" is his alias.  What name does Dr. Droleskey use that you take exception with. I will call him Bergi because that is the shortest and his full name is easy to misspell. Does anyone know his first name.  Perhaps I can call him by his first name and that will be less expensive.  But look what the devil has us quibbling over when a billion souls are at stake.    

    But 2Vermonts point is well taken.  It does come down to motive and some call names with bad intent, some sugar coat with bad intent as well.

    Some convert with honey.  Others, if there is any hope of all, can only be converted with the firm use of a frying pan applied to the noggin'.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Ursus

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    Day Three of Francis The Lay Pope
    « Reply #8 on: February 28, 2014, 11:36:34 AM »
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  • A simple question, by why all the importance of Jєωιѕн relations? Is the church trying to save their souls and have them accept our Christ? Because just engaging in dialouge with people who don't believe, even hate the basic foundation of your faith is pointless.

    Offline Thorn

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    Day Three of Francis The Lay Pope
    « Reply #9 on: February 28, 2014, 11:56:39 AM »
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  • I hardly think that sedes, when talking to fellow Catholics, are trying to "convert" them to sedevacantism.  When they use colorful and descriptive language it's because of the utter disgust they feel.  Most likely most of them have family members who've lost the faith because of all the shenanigans going on in the church in the past half century.  Give them a break.
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Day Three of Francis The Lay Pope
    « Reply #10 on: February 28, 2014, 12:42:02 PM »
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  • No, there's a big difference between righteous indignation and bitter zeal.  Most sedevacantists I know have crossed over squarely into the bitter zeal area.


    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Day Three of Francis The Lay Pope
    « Reply #11 on: February 28, 2014, 01:03:37 PM »
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  • Does anyone have any actual data on people going to a sedevacantist chapel and being driven away?  Real stuff.  

    What trad is actually chased away by nicknames like Bergy and Frank?  These nicknames may lack seriousness, but they aren't really offensive.  I don't see them as offensive.  

    I think the disillusioned novus ordite may actually go protestant because of the overwhelming ignorance and lack of knowledge.

    A small percentage of disillusioned novus ordites will find their way to the indult.  

    A smaller still percentage of disillusioned novus ordites will find their way to Catholicism as found in the SSPX and the sede chapels.

    A handful of disillusioned novus ordites will just struggle through the novus ordo mass and tolerate their presider in his flowing robes - these souls are probably the ones who truly are "Baptism of Desire" types.  Or they are recipients of "Supplied Jurisdiction".  The novus ordo is a struggle.  

    However, there are a group of novus ordites who think the faith is changeable and that it should adapt to modern man.  Thier god is the clock and the calendar and since the clock is always clicking and the pages of the calendar are always turning, then instability is a sign of godliness.

    It just occurred to me - if anyone has a complaint against Dr. Droletsky it is that he uses 10,000 words when 2,500 would suffice.

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Day Three of Francis The Lay Pope
    « Reply #12 on: February 28, 2014, 01:21:14 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    No, there's a big difference between righteous indignation and bitter zeal.  Most sedevacantists I know have crossed over squarely into the bitter zeal area.


    There is some of that too.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Day Three of Francis The Lay Pope
    « Reply #13 on: February 28, 2014, 01:59:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: Thorn
    I hardly think that sedes, when talking to fellow Catholics, are trying to "convert" them to sedevacantism.  When they use colorful and descriptive language it's because of the utter disgust they feel.  Most likely most of them have family members who've lost the faith because of all the shenanigans going on in the church in the past half century.  Give them a break.


    Oh I totally get it.  I tend to think that it's a way of dealing with the fact that there is NOTHING any one of us can do about it. It's a form of a release of frustration.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Day Three of Francis The Lay Pope
    « Reply #14 on: February 28, 2014, 03:55:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: Thorn
    I hardly think that sedes, when talking to fellow Catholics, are trying to "convert" them to sedevacantism.  When they use colorful and descriptive language it's because of the utter disgust they feel.  Most likely most of them have family members who've lost the faith because of all the shenanigans going on in the church in the past half century.  Give them a break.


    Oh I totally get it.  I tend to think that it's a way of dealing with the fact that there is NOTHING any one of us can do about it. It's a form of a release of frustration.


    Possibly.  It starts with a zeal for the truth, but the devil can easily exploit it and turn it into bitter zeal.  We just have to be vigilant against it.  I doesn't do any good but can do a tremendous amount of harm to our souls.

    WWOLS -- What Would Our Lady Say?

    or, rather, HOW would she say it?

    Imagine Our Lady speaking at Fatima or the like.  Could you imagine her using this kind of tone?

    There are other tendencies that we have to be careful of as Traditional Catholics, including the spirit of the Pharisees where we're more interested in, say, having the correct scent of incense at Mass but forget about kindness and charity.

    It's not that proper observance of rubrics isn't important, but we must understand that these are not ends in themselves.  Rubrics were created for man, not man for the rubrics.